At the end of my tether with SD age 8 - need support/advice

[howtodowills]

Known DPs daughters (8 and 5) for over 2 yrs (as Dad's girlfriend) and DP moved into my place 8 months ago with me and DS (6)

Youngest "SD" has always been a lovely girl and accepted me fine. My DS has accepted the situation fine too. That's not to say neither of them have found things hard as they have but with love and support, and also discipline they have accepted their "new" set up fine.

Eldest "SD" hasn't. She has always been a "challenging child" apparently (say friends and family who knew her before parents split) but i am at the end of my tether with her. She has always been really jealous of me and her dad and I've tried to give them lots of time the 2 of them, lots of time him and his 2 DDS and tried to give her love and affection (as needed - she is a very "needy" child emotionally who asks for lots of cuddles.) The thing is she has gone from being ok but sad about her parents splitting to literally being a NIGHTMARE. She will turn up, lie, be rude, nasty and spiteful to try and "make daddy hate you" (her words to me). She will glare at me across the dinner table and undermine most things I say. I know her mother was very negative about me in the early days (i think through jealousy and hurt that her ex had found happiness with me) but i think she is past that now. the problem is it is getting so much worse with this girl. I have tried to support her in every way i can think of and am at the end of my tether now. She gets disciplined for her rudeness and wil be sent to her room for 5 mins time out (as all of our kids would for the same behaviour) but she will hit and kick DP, scream and shout in her room and throw things around and it's upsetting for the 2 younger kids. My DS hates that she makes his home angry and i really hate her coming. She's asked not to come anymore but DP says she has to as he doesn't want to not see her.

Whenever she does come she terrorises us all though and it is literally hell. DP works away during the week so we do like to see eachother at weekends and had been doing saturdays with "our own" kids and sundays all together, or vice versa but it's just awful. Every nice experience I try to make she ruins for everyone. I just don't know what to do anymore :(

Have even started wondering whether to jack it in with DP as I can't bear her making mine and DS life like this - as well as her poor Sister who hates all the anger

DP ideally needs to talk to the ex as regards your DSD's behaviour and, if possible, arrange for the two parents to have a gentle, positive conversation with her as regards their/your situation. If DSD sees that Mummy is no longer negative about you and DP then that may go a long way to calming down the hostility.

Irrespective of being able to talk to his daughter with his ex your DP needs to take the lead role in discipline. His daughter, regardless of how 'upset' she is, should not be hitting him (or anyone else) and tantrums should be treated as just that if they continue. Naughty step works-even at 8. If mine act like 2yr olds they get treated like 2yr olds (and yes I have said that to them) find a safe space, have her sit down be quiet for a minute per year for her age. Timer starts when she's quiet. If she trashes her room she fixes it why on earth is your DP helping her tidy up the mess she made? If she gets violent or scary for the siblings the you take them out for a treat "DP I'm taking X,Y & Z to the park/zoo/for ice-cream, I know you wanted to come too, feel free to join us once DSD has calmed down and apologised" sort of scenario.

DSD needs to see that DP will not tolerate her behaviour towards you and that her plan to 'make Daddy hate you' is a no go from the outset. I'd also adopt (for now) the approach that all 'nice day out' plans are made by DP (even when they're not) in order that she's ruining his plans, not yours if she misbehaves and needs to be taken home/timed out etc.

It's hard work and not always the neatest stitches when you're a patchwork family isn't it?

anklebiter good decision to take the others out and leave her with DP. The thing is a lot of the time her tantrums are either near bed time or for the hour before they leave for school.... neither of which times is practical to take anyone out. We tell his little DD (5) she can go to sleep in our bed when her big sister is screaming blue murder in their room but then she just screams more that it's not fair and she wants her sister to come back cause she doesn't want to go to bed alone.

I very much like the "If you act like a 2 y/o you get treated like a 2 y/o". I will use that - thank you.

DP and i have just started counselling. We had our 2nd session this morning and spent the majority of the time talking about all this - the counsellor didn't help much "yes, that is very difficult, there doesn't really seem to be a solution"..... we did talk about DP spending more time with her away from the home which could be an option. She's coming tonight :( I've arranged for DS to be with his dad tonight to spare him the drama. I may work late

and DP is still thinking about her coming less as an option. I think he has realised that he may lose me if this carries on much longer and hopefully that has given him a shove up the arse to do something about it all.

howtodowills is there anything in particular that sets her off at bedtime or school/breakfast time?

We have quite a strictly adhered to bedtime routine and morning routine, which starts after dinner with sorting their bags for school (minus lunch) and checking for the next days uniform. We find it helps reduce 'morning stress'. We also have a 'school area' where we have a coat & bag rack which is where all school shoes and coats and p.e. bags etc go as they come back through the door. Lunch boxes are put on the sideboard next to the sink.

Not trying to teach you to suck eggs, just thought that maybe the methods we use to help keep down the manic-ness with our 4 (5 with DSS) might help keep things calmer your end?

Had your dp talked to her mum about the idea of coming less? What does she do with her child free time, I think you need a backup plan in case having her less isn't an option.

And I think you need an answer in mind if she says if dd1 isn't coming then neither is dd2.

I know this is really really hard but I feel very strongly that her seeing her father less is not the answer. Won't she feel even more angry, rejected and sad? She is clearly a deeply troubled little girl.

I think she needs some sort of external professional support, as do your H and his ex who haven't handled this particularly well and need some guidance.

You are not the problem except that to her you are the person who is with her dad who isn't her mother. You could be saint or sinner or something in between and she would still feel the same way.

I understand why you feel you want to do the relationship counselling with your H but I think family counselling which focuses on the little girl and her parenting would be more valuable.

Hedda, I totally agree!
OP, when she is saying I don't want to come to see DF, she's probably telling you that she does, but doesn't know how to handle it! Obviously, the child has been deeply affected by her parents split, and unfortunately she is blaming you, so therefore you're the enemy. Her DF's seemingly out of his depth here, and who knows what she experiences/hears at her DM's house? But, I also agree that outside counceling may or may not help, but it would be better if the family, (inc EW) could put the child's needs first, and agree a strategy for getting her over this, it's time for some tough love which will be really hard, but you all need to be on the same page for it to work!

I also agree with Hedda.
She's a little girl and she doesn't have the ability to deal with the situation that has been put in. That's not her fault.
The solution is not through more punishment, I completely disagree with taking her favourite teddy away at bedtime. Consequences for bad behaviour are fine, but they won't reduce the behaviour when the cause is how she feels. She needs help and support so she can learn to deal with her feelings.

A couple of things I have been thinking, is your son younger than her? If so you may not be used/have experience of 8 year olds. If your son is older, then she is losing her place as eldest in the family, when you are all together, which could prompt the power struggle.

The thing is that, you would never say 'I have spent hours', about your own child, and I am sure a more sensitive child can pick up these subtle differences, maybe you could diffuse some of the tension, by naming and labelling some of what is going on. 'I know I am not your mum, but I would like to help you with that'. 'Did your mum buy you that top, it is very nice' , 'Did you make a card for your mum for mother's day?, son made one for me.'

8 Year olds are moving into slightly different territory, if your son is younger, and some would try to go for a 'give and take' type of parenting from this point onwards. You help me, i'll help you type of thing. to build a good relationship for the teenage years, a do as i say type of parenting, can lead to rebellion at teenage years.

Just a few more thoughts, i know its very difficult to say the least.

Has someone explained that even if you and your DP split, her parents wouldn't get back together. It seems like she thinks if she can get you out of the way everything walk go back to how it was.

Does she like making things? Could you have a new family project to work on that she has a special role in? Something that visibly grows each time you work on it that shows her role is so very important? Like a big poster to colour in where she's in charge of some special colours?
Or could she always be the dessert chef for the family with help from DP?
So she feels more practically valued?

Hi everyone, thanks for the helpful suggestions...

My DS is 6 and I don't have experience of 8 y/o. Lots of my friends who have met her do and all say she is "difficult".

noteven - she does like making things... I've involved her in a few household things - picking out photos to put on the walls, giving her a big pile including loads of her, her dad and her sis, her art creations i put up in the kitchen with my DS. A family project could have be an idea but to be honest I think we are past that....

boygirlboy - I am REALLY aware how my reactions towards her mum affect her. Last week DP got stuck in traffic and my DS was at sportclub so I collected them. I asked if they'd got anything for their mum yet for mothers day and asked if they'd like me to take them shopping which they were keen on. Tellingly the 8 y/o was very interested in whether I'd be happy to pay because "mummy said she'd never pay for anything for you" - of course I said I was very happy to pay as their mum is very special because she grew them (that took work to say, trust me). I then took them home and got all the craft stuff out so they could make cards. She was FINE with me that evening - i think cause her dad wasn't there and she was getting to just do everything that she wanted.

Anyway - it went quickly downhill all over the weeekend and descended into the usual screaming shouting, "I hate you", " i never want to come here", "I want to live at mums" - I lost my temper with her a few times which I am not proud of and shouted at her but she is SO RUDE and has started hitting her dad and throwing things in her anger. I took the other 2 out and left her at home.

My DS HATES the anger and so do I. Even her little sis asked if she could spend the day on sunday with me and DS and not her dad and sister. I hate her being here and i have told DP I am getting to the point where I cannot have her in this home. I know people will probably think I am a wicked stepmum but its been so long of this and it's having an awful effect on all of us - her included actually. On Friday night she has her hobby till 8pm so it's me, DS and little SD and we have a great time, really fun, lots of laughng and its calm for everyone. As soon as you throw her into the mix it's just anger and stress.

I am completely and utterly lost with what to do. I feel I have given more than i can ever give and the problem is now I just do not want to see her, I don't want her here and I want my happy home back.... which is always is when she's not here.

mrsuniverse - yes, her Dad, me and apparently her mum have all explained that neither her mum or dad would want to get together again if i was out of the picture. she says she knows that.....

I hate her being here and i have told DP I am getting to the point where I cannot have her in this home.

Please before you get to this stage give her and you a break. Make it a choice not an obligation. If you do I bet you will see an improvement in behaviour

If you want to unpick it further, I need to know the incident that set things on the wrong course Saturday. I understand if you have had enough talking about it now. You sound totally wrung out by the situation, which i understand. The thing is she has hurt you so much, you begrudge her kind words, i understand that. Humans can only take so much, be kind to yourself, the fact you are still looking for ideas, shows your caring for your family as a whole. I sincerely hope things work out in the end.

toffee what do you mean by "make it a choice"... I just want to make sure I'm understanding you :)

boygirl - it was set off by her pulling faces at me behind her dad's back and me asking very nicely "please don't pull those faces at me". It then descended because we were talking about what we were doing on Sunday and she started saying to her dad (we were all in the same room) "why do I have to spend Mother's Day with HER. she's not my mum". (Obviously in rude tone.) This was a tricky one as we had asked their mum several times if she wanted them on Mother's Day but she said no. DP apparently even said he thought they'd be quite upset if she didn't see them but she just said she couldnt as she was staying at her boyfriends house. So we kind of had to be honest so we explained that unfortunately her mummy was busy but they could call and FaceTime mummy and would see her Sunday tea time. She then got angry that we weren't letting her see her mum so we explained to her that we had asked mummy if she wanted the girls home all day Sunday but she said she was busy. I know that must have hurt for her but I wasn't prepared for her to think we would stop her from seeing her mum.

After this we had an hr of anger and shouting at her dad and I went to chat to her about how I knew she was upset she wasn't spending the day with her mum but that it wasn't fair to take her anger out on everyone else aNd I suggested that she could tell mummy nicely that she'd prefer it if she didn't make plans for next Mother's Day.... I would never normally do the "tell mummy this" but I didn't know what to say and I felt sorry for a kid who's mum didn't want to spend Mother's Day with her :(

Then she carried on being angry and rude so she got the usual "please don't/warning/time out" and it's when the "time out" is delivered that it all goes wrong and she starts screaming and kicking cause she doesn't want to go to her room and begging. The thing is no matter how many chances she gets she is Always always the same.

Well, if my mother didn't want to see me on mothers day, I would be rightly put out. This little one, has more going on than just trying to settle into a step family. Her own mother doesn't want her.

This is out of the zone that I would feel comfortable offering advice on.

I would say move the time out zone to a neutral space, e.g. bottom step, to avoid associations of her bedroom with being naughty. Faces, rudeness just ignore ignore, it is just done to get a reaction, any reaction, good or bad, don't react for long enough, and those behaviours will stop.

Also 2 warnings plenty, over a small number of set rules e.g. hitting, spitting, swearing. Then always carry through. Also pre warn child of 2 warnings and naughty step.

If you are consistent and overall kind, you could make a real difference to a girl with many challenges.

I really thought i could make a difference but 2 yrs in it's just getting worse... :(

I think your dp needs to get counselling for him & his daughter.The step mum is often the target when there maybe anger with her dad that's unexpressed.
You can't change the ex wife or your dp, at best you can try to influence him.I would like to say it will get better but it may not and early teens can be very challenging.
It's something you have to weigh up, is life with dp enough to warrant the upset on a regular basis?

I would seriously consider a period of sepration as blending families don't always work.Your step daughter hasn't won, you are just choosing to remove yourself from a toxic setup (not caused by you). I didn't have as many challenges but I do wish I had considered leaving .I naively assumed it would get better since care & kindness should fix the situation...nope, it doesn't always work and I can't influence or change other people.

I have thought about leaving but apart from her it's great and we are happy.
Also I am pregnant - albeit early days. I have still suggested a temp split but it's not what I want - I am just broken from it and now more than ever want to look after myself

newname - you wouldn't think about leaving now?

Hi op.
I have to say my dd has always been a bit tricky around dh (her sd) as she got older age was able to tell us that she saw DH as the reasin her dad wasbt with us. Weird cos her dad went when she was 8 months and Dh came along 5 years later.
Luckily Dh is totally laid back and it's never bothered him much, he comes from a very close family so always felt bad for her.
We have dealt with it with a mixture of discipline and some empathy.
She is now 14 and says "love you" to him

What struck me is that all your ways of dealing with it are negative sanctions which will only compound how shit she feels.
Can you try using rewards instead, for good behaviour?
I work with chikdren with emotjonsk difficulties and all the latest findings point to using empathic parenting approaches.
Maybe yiur Dh can research this, there's lots in the net or buy a book.
I agree that you need some time out from it too and she needs time with her dad so that can only be a win win situation for all of you.
Good luck.

Typo city there sorry

I wouldn't have her over at all.
Instead of her not coming g could your dp take her out for one morning/afternoon or lunch even on her own & spend the rest of the weekend with you, ds & dd?
That way she gets one to one daddy time & the hate for you might dissipate after time as she's not competing for love/time
sounds so hard