At the end of my tether with SD age 8 - need support/advice

[howtodowills]

Known DPs daughters (8 and 5) for over 2 yrs (as Dad's girlfriend) and DP moved into my place 8 months ago with me and DS (6)

Youngest "SD" has always been a lovely girl and accepted me fine. My DS has accepted the situation fine too. That's not to say neither of them have found things hard as they have but with love and support, and also discipline they have accepted their "new" set up fine.

Eldest "SD" hasn't. She has always been a "challenging child" apparently (say friends and family who knew her before parents split) but i am at the end of my tether with her. She has always been really jealous of me and her dad and I've tried to give them lots of time the 2 of them, lots of time him and his 2 DDS and tried to give her love and affection (as needed - she is a very "needy" child emotionally who asks for lots of cuddles.) The thing is she has gone from being ok but sad about her parents splitting to literally being a NIGHTMARE. She will turn up, lie, be rude, nasty and spiteful to try and "make daddy hate you" (her words to me). She will glare at me across the dinner table and undermine most things I say. I know her mother was very negative about me in the early days (i think through jealousy and hurt that her ex had found happiness with me) but i think she is past that now. the problem is it is getting so much worse with this girl. I have tried to support her in every way i can think of and am at the end of my tether now. She gets disciplined for her rudeness and wil be sent to her room for 5 mins time out (as all of our kids would for the same behaviour) but she will hit and kick DP, scream and shout in her room and throw things around and it's upsetting for the 2 younger kids. My DS hates that she makes his home angry and i really hate her coming. She's asked not to come anymore but DP says she has to as he doesn't want to not see her.

Whenever she does come she terrorises us all though and it is literally hell. DP works away during the week so we do like to see eachother at weekends and had been doing saturdays with "our own" kids and sundays all together, or vice versa but it's just awful. Every nice experience I try to make she ruins for everyone. I just don't know what to do anymore :(

Have even started wondering whether to jack it in with DP as I can't bear her making mine and DS life like this - as well as her poor Sister who hates all the anger

I thought my Dd would freak when her sm was pregnant.
I was really worried.
I told her in a very positive way and said we could buy flowers and talked about her having a brother.
When the baby came we chose gifts and cards and congratulated her on being a big sister.
She was excited and pleased and yet sobbed in my arms a couple of times (I didnt need to know why)
It must be so hard for them.
I know it's horrible for you but if you try to see her as wounded, confused and hurting Iy might make it a bit easier to bear for you instead of just seeing her as a nasty piece of work.
I will look at work today to see if there are any books which might help and post back later.
She will get through this but sounds as if she needs some professional help.

I think id call it a day persinally. If your dp actually wanted to address it then it would be worth your time and effort. He isn't so you'll either have to wait it out or decide where your line in the sand is.

perreti
If your child was behaving badly possibly suffering emotional hurt and upset would your answer be to cut any time with them down to half a day a week for a bit of lunch?
Really?

I think things will become worse when she finds out your expecting. Her atttitude is disgraceful and her behaviour towards you not acceptable your DP should have nipped it in the bud but with blended families if the step parents and kids dont click, i don't see how the relationship can progress any further. My DH was nervous about meeting DS (then 2) and they get on great but it would of been a big factor if they hadn't and the relationship wouldn't of continued.

Lessing access isn't a solution i think she is very damaged and by this proves hes picked you and she isn't wanted. I think she needs some counselling. Some children aren't equipped when they're parents split up and get new partners and see it the same way as a lost.

Bless you, your expecting too, and early days are when you feel the worst.

You could of already made a difference, without you, she could be far far worse. She is doing crafts happily at your table this last weekend, that alone was a small pool of happiness in her life. Be positive about what you have achieved, you have 2 happy children in a blended family, and 1 your working on.

Your new baby could be the glue, to pull you all together, he/she will be a blood relative of you and your 8 year old sd, he/she could be the very thing, to build the bridge.

Haven't read the whole thread I was like this when I was younger. It was like I had a new family forced upon me that I didn't want. My mum constantly bitched about them which my dad had no idea about. My dad also insisted that I came every other weekend and everything was done as a 'family'. I'm sure you're all very lovely but I think it's important to let her be as involved as she wants to be. Him taking her away by himself sounds like a great idea even if it's just now and then or if you guys live close together then he could go to her more often and just take her out every now and then? Now I'm older our relationship is fine.

All I can say is try and talk him round?

perreti
If your child was behaving badly possibly suffering emotional hurt and upset would your answer be to cut any time with them down to half a day a week for a bit of lunch?
Really?*
Yeah
considering not seeing her at all is on the cards yes definitely.
I think having time alone with her dad is what she needs & she can't have him all weekend (& he works away during the week) so I think start small & work up.
Yes really

ledkr - I have tried to see her in that way for so long and we really have doe the "praise when good" thing... she was getting prasie for getting dressed and brushing her teeth without a drama FGS - she's 8!!! but the thing is she is the type of child who LOVES being in control so the second she doesn't get her way it all kicks off.... mooodiness, sulking, faces... I wouldn't mind ignoring it so much for myself but my DS is really well behaved cause i've worked hard at it and i don't want him thinking it's ok to be like that and i didn't want to have a entitled stepchild living with me. Good behaviour = praise and treats, bad behaviour = discipline. All behaviour gets empathy and explanations from us. The thing is everyone's been so "oh poor XX she's finding it so hard" that no-one's pulled her up on anything.

She is having counselling... She's on her 15th session.

I don't know what is said at home by her mum. She swears blind to DP that she supports our relationship and is positive about us but i don't know what to believe really.

laurie - i do understand the "having a new family forced upon her" butwhen she's geting what she wants from it she loves it, it's just when it isn't 100% right for her that she kicks off.

We tend to spend at least 50% of the weekend separately and have spent the other 50% together. The kids all get on and enjoy playing together. I am not prepared to do this anymore. even if it's only for a couple of months i need a break.

That is completely understandable

Don't lose touch though in that break, send her cards/parcels, im not talking extravagant gifts or gifts at all, let her know she's loved & thought about

we explained to her that we had asked mummy if she wanted the girls home all day Sunday but she said she was busy.

I would have just kept repeating that it was dads weekend to have them. Telling her that mummy was busy was unnecessarily hurtful imo.

- it was set off by her pulling faces at me behind her dad's back and me asking very nicely "please don't pull those faces at me"

I might have turned it into fun my pulling faces back until we were both laughing.

The thing is no matter how many chances she gets she is Always always the same.

This is why you have to learn some new skills. Your own dc and other sdd don't need the same level/type of parenting as the 8 year old does, which is why your usual standard techniques aren't working. Have a google of the PACE method of building relationships.

headinhands... we started off with saying it was dads wkend but she was yelling at us that we weren't being fair because she should get to see her mum and we were stopping her by forcing her to be at ours when she didn't want to be. We tried to skirt around the issue with a number of other things but in the end we just came out with it - i honestly don't know what else we could have done. We even went to the fact they were going home 2 hours earlier to have mothers day tea with mum but she wa saying " you should have let me spend the day with mum. you're being mean to her" etc etc

I will look up PACE.... but i honestly think we have tried everything, I feel like i have nothing left to give and i actually can't even stand the sight of her face now.

I have a difficult-at-times SD who is 8 too, OP. She is the queen of sulks and tantrums, much worse than our 3 year old in fact. When she sulks, we have two options. Either we copy her with grumpy faces and Kevin-esqe "you are so unfaiiiir". Or totally ignore. If she stomps off with a bad attitude, then she stomps off. She is the one losing out. I too worried about it having a negative impact on the toddlers behaviour, but she just looks at me all matter of fact and sighs, "xxx is sulking again mummy" and I say "yes well never mind, she'll be back soon". And she inevitably is. Because we have ignored ignored ignored for so long. Poor dh is sometimes puce in the face with containing his crossness at the sulks! Gradually she is getting better, and realising that sulks and faces and bad temper won't get her anywhere, and the opportunities for genuine positive praise are increasing.

I hope you can find a solution that works for you all.

My DS and little SD will hold their hands over their ears and say "she's hurting our ears" and then DS will say "come on XXX, lets go and play and stay out of this one" and I try and take them into our room for stories etc or take them out. Whoever gave me that advice I want to thank... I'd never thought about offering to take little SD with me and DS.

The thing is them getting a treat on sunday (breakfast out and swimming) just made 8 y/o SD even more angry saying it wasn't fair and we were being mean. We explained really calmly that because her behaviour was so bad the day before and she'd been so nasty to us that she wouldn;t be getting the treat day but she would get to spend the whole day just her and her Dad and they could have a long nice walk and chat. She just starts yelling saying she wants another chance to be good so she can have the treat. We said no as she'd already had 4 chances and it was 7am.

BigPig - I LOVE the idea of pulling faces back at her!!! That would make me laugh inside although probably not go down very well!!!!!!

Are you pregnant op? If so its a real shame you've allowed that to happen with such a mixed up and insecure child in the middle of this and a relationship that's not very strong. I get that these things happen but really bad timing.

Thanks neon - that's a bit of a kick when i'm down.

Yes, I am pregnant. I've lost 3 since my DS so i am happy about it, although terrified we will lose this one too.

We talked a lot before TTC and after each loss but decided we wouldn't put our life on hold as we didn't know if she'd ever be "comfortable" with the situation with or without a baby in it. If I could wait 5 years maybe I would have but i'm not of an age where that's possible and with my fertility history i'm afraid i can't "time things to perfection".

You're not doing anything wrong OP, why should you put off another child because of a phase that may last a couple of years at most? She might love being a big sister, try to include her in things like shopping for baby it might help her feel more included. Congrats and I hope it gets easier with her

By make it a choice mean that the break is her choice, you are not restricting time with Dad it is there if she wants it. But you aren't enforcing it either.

You present it as we understand you are not happy you are confused about how you fit into both families. We can talk about this if you want bit if you are not happy spending so much time with us then have a break. We are here when you are ready to come again and we love you very much. That doesn't change whether you are with us or not. We will still be there at parents evenings plays etc.

You can't discipline happiness into a child or frustration out. You have to deal with the cause of the unhappiness and frustration.

Thanks toffee - that's what I thought you meant. I see the merit in it and a yr ago would have agreed wholeheartedly however I'm not sure how wise it is as 8 to give a child the power to decide all this? Is it good to let her decide or is it another way she just controls the family? I don't know... I'd have always said the former but having had the 8mths I've had I think she'll revel in being the centre of everything and deciding constantly what SHE wants and expecting everyone else to fall in around her...

Can I perhaps suggest one other thing that has helped us? Try not to carry punishments over to he next day if you can help it. Waking with a fresh start and a positive attitude can work wonders, for everyone. Imagine at 8, waking up, only to realise your siblings are off out and you're stuck at home - as an adult you may remember that she's been a wee shite the previous day, but she will likely have forgotten, and any trace of good mood will fly out the window.

Identifying flash points during the da , eg. Pre meals, pre bedtime, when hunger/tiredness make everyone a bit volatile, and trying to take a deep breath and not rise to the bait can also help.

Has anyone genuinely tried pulling faces at a truly raging child? It really doesn't work on a really angry child.

Either it makes the behaviour worse as for example the child feels like like you are taking the piss or another example takes it that as you are escalating the situation they are going to take it one step further.

You've got a child deeply resentful of the role that has been forced onto her. She doesn't want two families and all that goes with it. You can try and enforce that role, insisting on disciplining without listening to what she is saying because "that is how we behave here". But I suspect everything you do (disciplining love bombing) will make the behaviour worse because really there is no incentive for the behaviour to improve. She's not going to get what she wants so why the hell should she do anything you want. If in her mind she wants to be at home, there is nothing you have that she wants more than that at the moment.

When someone has depression the first thing you do is lower the demards, social and physical, you can pick them back up later when the resilience levels are back up

Give her a bit of space, make it a choice to come and not an obligation. Take out the battle of wills. Let her have a few reports back on how much fun her younger sister us having. Make sure you send hugs and kisses from daddy, howto do, DS and bump. By al means love bomb from a distance, but reduce the demand on her.

Are you giving her power or just setting new boundaries in the relationship whilst ostensibly listening to what she is asking for and giving her a little bit of self autonomy.

I don't know. But I'm always in favour of if one approach doesn't work it might be worth trying another

Toffee clearly if she is properly raging, taking the mick is not helpful and actually is likely to have a detrimental effect. I would hope that the adults could make a judgement call - I know my dsd is pulling a sulk or mood for attention 80% of the time rather than a genuine anger or upset, so for those occasions, making the situation light hearted quickly and moving on promptyl avoids a big meltdown and ensuing frosty atmosphere. Agreed that here, there may be genuine anger or upset more often. My personal feeling would be for the adults to try a different tack before allowing a conflicted 8yr old to make decisons about contact. Would she benefit from 1:1 time from you, OP? I know that when dsd has had difficulties with her mum, she has appreciated some female contact, even if it's just colouring together over a hot chocolate whilst dh takes he other kids out? Could you overcome your own feeligs to try something like this, to try to build a better relationship between the 2 of you?