Daughter never included...

[Purplerain067]

I was going to post in AIBU but thought I might get better advice here.
I live with my dd (3) and partner in my very small appartment. He has three dc.
On weekends they come here to see their Dad.
Am I being unreasonable to believe that it is my daughters home and for them to play with her toys and sleep in her room they should at least respond to her when she talks to them?
They ignore her over and over, all I here is "(child's name) will you play with me please" repeated 10x. My daughter is the youngest and I admit that she does get excited when they're here and is likely to be a bit annoying in their eyes but it breaks my heart to hear her wanting to play and for them to look straight through her at the TV.

They will exclude her from other activities also, when we play outside with a football they will play games she doesn't understand, they will watch films too old for her etc, I really feel she is singled out in her own home.

I felt so sad for my daughter today I took her away from the situation and spent some quality time alone with her. Shes only 3 and doesn't understand why no one would want to play

Am I over reacting?

she gets upset if she is ignored for a while and will come to me crying. This is when I intervene and take my daughter from the situation, I will explain that the children are busy doing (whatever they are doing) and maybe set up a different activity for her, play with her myself or go out for a while.

I have teen DDs and then a much younger DD and I've always had to do this. I expect the old DC to include her sometimes and to acknowledge her when she speaks to them BUT little DC would monopolise every activity if she could and she never stops talking and demanding. It's very tiresome and I think it's acceptable for the older DC to eventually stop responding. DD3's right to have people acknowledge her doesn't trump their right to be able to read in peace or watch TV without constant interruptions.

Your park example is quite a normal split in families where children are different ages/have different interests.

Excellent advice from SitsOnFence

That's exactly the way I've dealt with my DC

I agree that everyone should be kind to each other, but also that 3yos can be very annoying for older DC! I would perhaps gently remind the older ones to be kind, but keep an eye on your DD and know that tes, you will need to do stuff just with her.

However the real problem sounds your DP, who comes across as not wantibg to parent his children at all. How is he is a partner and a step dad to your DD?

You mention that the DSD have younger half-siblings left at home. Do you think this has an impact on their relationship with your DD in any way? They all should be OK around younger children, but maybe it's difficult for them with the other younger children, perhaps they see themselves as a separate group of 3 and that's why they seem to be excluding your DD.

Have you perhaps too high expectations that they should treat your DD nicely/kindly because she is younger? Younger kids can seem a bit of a bore to older children.

I was the youngest of 4 myself with a 5 year age gap to my next sibling. On a one to one basis I got on fine with each of them, but as a group as I was often left out and ignored. This was often not helped by my DM desperately trying to get them to include me, when I got upset. Sibling dynamics are often fraught whether it involves step children or not.

silverwithoutbirtch I completely agree, in their home with their mum they share a bedroom as a three, whilst their mum and her partner share with the younger 2 and the other bedroom is her partners dc, so they are very grouped as a three at home, maybe this is why they continue to do this here?

Sorry I got your name a little mixed up, silverbirtchwithout*

Silverbirchwithout rather

I don't think she's that much younger than them to create an age barrier, especially with dsd2 who is 6 and shares many of the same interests as my daughter. As I have previously said she is almost 4, I just want her to feel included, not like the one who is always ignored and separated from the others when in reality there is no need.

Wow, so how many children in total live at their mother's, Purple?

Maybe they stick together for comfort and reassurance as much as anything?

Do you or DP know anything about the dynamic with the other children there? It could explain a lot.

I agree that they need to be kind to your dd, but honestly their life sounds like hard work. They are constantly changing and adapting, their parents separating, step parents arriving, half siblings, step siblings, staying at grandmas, now at yours.

That's before you even factor in school! I think I'd want to stare at the laptop and shut out the world. They are doing a lot of adapting. I think right now you need to get them to be kind but wouldn't push anything else, they have enough to deal with.

I don't think it's working having the children in your house every weekend.

I don't think you can expect the children to interact with your DD more than their dad does. It sounds like he is quite solitary and passive.

I don't think you realise how young children still are at their ages and how much maturing they still have to do in terms of empathy. If they were being unkind, you would know - they are so many things they could do that they're not doing. They do have a huge amount going on in their lives and sound like they're simply trying to survive and trying to have fun while they're doing it. You have no idea what expectations their mum and step dad have as to how they treat the younger two in their own home. It's not fair to expect children to just 'know' what someone else's idea of kindness is. Yes, they should be kind and it's your job (or their dad's job) to help them be kind - but this is something they grow into gradually. Making lots of mistakes on the way because they're children and they're allowed to.

I still think this is problem is rooted in the adult/s not really taking the lead, and also in having very high expectations of children who sound very normal in their behaviour.

There are 7 children in total at their mums house. The more I think about it the more I think they are probably sticking together as a form of comfort and reassurance.

I will have words with my DP about them being kind and answering my dd when she speaks to them but I won't push for much else, I understand that their lives are pretty hectic already and they probably like the break away from their busy home. Maybe his mums house being bigger and then having more space is a better option for now?

Why do some posters think step children have the right to be rude and basically what ever they want? Id hate it if I thought my children were being rude/ignorant.

I was a step child and wasn't rude. I would have been told off. I was told off if I was rude to my bio brother and visa versa.

op I think it would be better if he sees them at this mothers. If nothing more than to let your DP know that your dd doesn't get pushed to the back when his children are around. You can still do the family outings ect.. But at least it wouldnt be so apparent. This is down to your DP though. I'd be reconsidering a long term relasionship with him as he can't see what the issue is AND poor dd if you have a child to him, how confusing would that be, she would feel really left out then.

Time for a family meeting, some ground rules, and a systematic approach to family inclusion such as joint outings with, say, DD and one other child at a time.

I guess if they were to be given rules/boundaries/are pulled up on bad behaviour and just generally not made to feel above everyone else, then they will feel excluded from the family unit.

I think the opposite applies.

Children who are permitted to get away with what they know is bad behaviour, will wonder why and could attribute it to being precisely because they aren't a proper part of the family.

The best way to make sure children feel secure in their place within the family is to have the same high expectations of them that you do other family members.

Children need clear, fair boundaries in order to feel secure and included. If the rules don't apply to them, they will question what else doesn't apply to them, e.g. their right to feel it is their home, whether they are loved as much, whether they will always be welcomed.

It may be that your DP's reluctance to expect reasonable standards of behaviour is contributing to their need to withdraw as a group and seek security from each other.

Sorry 3!

I'm hopeless at picking up on sarcasm in RL, never mind on internet forums

It depends what you call 'rude' I suppose. These are relatively little children, not party guests! 'Rude' is not really an appropriate word to use in the context of how siblings treat each other. Yes, they should be guided into empathic, respectful behaviour but that is a relationship issue and begins with the parents. If the OP's partner was doing something with all four children and showing acceptance/affirmation to all of them while insisting the youngest had an equal voice, it would then be reasonable to expect the older children to follow his example. But we have no idea how they are expected to treat their siblings in the other house - are they considered 'rude' there if they ignore them? How are they supposed to know they're being 'rude' if they do the same in the OP's house, then?

Family rules and expectations differ; what is acceptable in one household may be frowned upon in another. It is hard enough for children to cheerfully adjust to a constantly evolving living situation (as it sounds like these children are doing) without also expecting them to naturally have a strange child's interests constantly in mind as well. The OP is not giving examples of bad or cruel behaviour - more sins of 'omission'. To be fair, these children seem to have very little guidance or examples of proactive kindness from their parent. And let's face it - many siblings have daily lapses into behaviour that is not 100% 'polite'. If the OP's DD was a younger sibling of these children and seen as such by them, I wonder if that would please her any better? Youngest siblings often don't get an easy ride and they do tend to be pains in the bottom.

OP, I personally can't stand it if my four year old DD seems left out. I would personally be weighing up this relationship because the family dynamic has to work for everyone and it would be work to create that, on top of the relationship between you and your partner. Someone who chooses to spend the weekend sitting watching films doesn't sound engaged with life, you or his children. In fact, it's really disappointing that this is how he wants to spend his precious time with them. I imagine his version of 'letting them get on with it' is relaxing on his own at his mum's house while she runs after them all weekend. Surely you can do better than this for your DD's step-dad?

I don't think anyone thinks it's ok for step children to be rude. But people do seem to expect them to handle whatever changes are thrown at them without question. It's about finding a middle ground. And while they should be kind I think it's going to far to ask them to just add in a step sibling who they must treat as a sister at all times.

I don't think that people don't think that children need to be kind. However if this was a post about children who are related to one another then the response would generally be that this is fairly typical behaviour for older children not to want to include their younger siblings in their activities (and it is not uncommon behaviour fwiw).

The reason why this is an issue is because these are not the op's biological children and therefore she feels protective of her dd and possibly a bit annoyed at her dsc -and their dad - whose loyalties are to his children while op's are to her's.

The reality here is that the only full-time presence in these children's lives is each other. So their parents split five years ago and since then they have had two new siblings (who they don't live with full-time because they spend some of their time with their dad) two step siblings from their mum's partner (who they don't live with full-time partly because they spend some time with their dad and presumably the other dsc spend time with their mum so a different schedule to the mum's new children) and a step sibling on their dad's side (who they don't live with full-time because they are at their mum's some of the time).

And it's possible that their mum's new children have their own bond since they live together all of the time, and her partner's children have their own relationship because they live together all of the time.

It's little wonder that these children have a bond between them.

Of course they should be kind but there are ways to make that happen without branding them horrible children.

I feel sad for your DD, it must be heartbreaking for her, and for you, to see her ignored like this.
It's not that much of an age gap between her and the youngest child of your DP - maybe you could create some kind of activity that the 3 of you could do together, to help her realise that your 3yo is someone with whom she can share time?

My 2 DSs are 5 years apart - DS2 is about to turn 3, but he and DS1 play really well together (I get that personalities help here as well) and DS2 always has an interest in what his big brother is doing/playing with, purely because he's his big brother in many cases! DS1 is not allowed to ignore DS2 - I find it incredibly rude and unpleasant - even when DS2 is being annoying, DS1 has to acknowledge him and then we can deal with what the problem may be.

When DS1 has friends round, most of them also have younger siblings so deal well with DS2 - but the one friend who doesn't have any siblings is the one who really doesn't like Ds2 being around, actively tries to exclude him, shuts the door on him, tells him to go away etc. - it's very hurtful for DS2. We don't have that friend round so much now, Ds1 goes to his house more, it's easier for all concerned. But you don't have that option.

Pretending your DD doesn't exist is a form of bullying behaviour - I doubt everyone will see it like that, but it is - if they were older, they could be said to have "sent her to Coventry" (an old-fashioned term that means pretending that person doesn't exist). As it is, I think they should be taught basic manners and to at least acknowledge her, even if they don't want to play with her (which is fair enough, especially the older children). But at least acknowledge that she has spoken and is there. That would make me so cross! :(