His ex arranging activities for the kids on "our" time

[trialsandtribs]

DPs ex has booked his 2 DC into a drama club which is once a week and therefore falls on "our" time eow.

We really want the kids to enjoy this activity and have so far taken them to every one but it is rather restrictive as we can't go away for wkends etc.

DP told his ex he couldn't guarantee taking them every wkend and he would have appreciated it if she'd talked to him first but her reaction (as always) showed the emotional intelligence of a gnat and was basically expecting everyone to fall in line with her.

DP and I discussed and called the organisers of the club who said that going even EOW was fine and that it wasn't designed to be a club for every week and the DCs wouldn't miss out if they couldn't make every one and we passed this info on to EX but I have just been told by the DCS that "mummy says you don't want us to do drama"... aaaaarrrrggggghhh.

I wish DP would stand up to her a bit more but he just loathes any form of contact with her as she's just such a pain about everything that he just doesn't say anything.

I'm very pro kids having hobbies and not feeling like they have 2 lives but i am not pro their mum controlling our wkends together...

Thoughts?

It seems unfair that they should miss something they want to do because you have a problem with their mum arranging it without asking you.

It doesn't really stop you from taking weekends away as presumably that's only a handful of times a year and missing those weekends is veey different to never taking them. I think it's also fine for them to miss it every now and then for a day out (although you do havw the other day of the weekend for that).

Sounds as though you are just annoyed that she is expecting you to fit in with what she wants. But actually she is expecting you to fit in with what her children want, which is reasonable of her.

I say this as a step mum whose weekends were, for years, entirely monopolised by my two DSS's football commitmenta. Both had training on a saturday morning and then matches on a Sunday (potentially one morning and one afternoon). Yes I did resent it a bit at the time but I thought both then and now that was really my problem, not theirs.

Hmmm

I'm a stepmum now, and a Mum, and I was a single parent for several years before ever becoming a stepmum so think it's fair to say I've seen this all ways round.

My eldest was once heavily involved with Scouting - very worthwhile etc - and a lot of their related activities would be weekend based (hikes, camps, cleaning up the locality, fund raising etc) ..... and it really wasn't hard to keep my ex in the loop about all of that and work out how our child could do what they wanted to do and maintain a fairly regular relationship with their dad. I always made a point of reminding them that we'd both need to discuss stuff before giving the green light because I wanted to ensure their dad remained 'important' in their eyes - rather than an afterthought if nothing better was happening. Most of the time, simply by being fair, and communicative, and honest, we managed to work stuff out so everyone was happy .... lots of 'swapping' time around, but so what.

My DP's ex however is like the one described in the OP, and like Bluebell's too. It made - and still makes - me so infuriated, because I know it doesn't have to be like that and a refusal to communicate, to show courtesy or to ever compromise is so petty and spiteful. And worst of all, the children are dragged into things when she decides to tell them half-baked nonsense in a similar way to what the OP described - I think that is unforgivable. Things are compounded for my DP because of a significant distance (2.5 hr drive one way - she moved, not us) meaning discussion should be even more important as clearly he can't just 'pop up' to take them to parties he is told about at the last moment and so on.

Agree that parents who do this (assuming they aren't completely thick) do so with an agenda of control and/or spite. My DP's ex actually told him - on several occasions - that in her opinion, the children's social lives were more important than their relationship with him!

The children want to do it. Why should they miss out

Because as parents, it is our responsibility to decide whether what our DCs want to do is best for them.

It is not good parenting to concede to a DCs every request, with no consideration of the impact that it will have - both positive and negative.

The DCs mum has decided that they should go to every class, even though that reduces the time they can spend with their Dad. She may have weighed up the benefits of each and concluded that the class is indeed a more positive experience, or she may, like many posters on here seem to endorse, decided to absolve herself of her parenting responsibilties and signed them up purely because it's what they want to do.

The point is, that the DCs have two parents, and both have a responsibility to make the decision. Unfortunately, in this case, as in many others, the RP has not only unilaterally made the decision that drama club is more valuable than dad time, but she has involved the DCs in the subsequent disagreement between parents.

My DP's ex actually told him - on several occasions - that in her opinion, the children's social lives were more important than their relationship with him!

At least she was open about her opinions cats; from what I can tell from a lot of posts on MN, there are often a range of excuses and justifications that avoid admitting the reality - which, as you say, is that the RP doesn't value or want the DCs relationship with the NRP and only tolerates it because they have to, not because they think it benefits the DCs.

I know that my DD benefits greatly from her relationship with her Dad, and I know there is significant research that says that DCs have better outcomes when they have a relationship with both parents (when it is safe).

But, I'm not going to tell all those RP who think EOW contact is a waste of time that they are wrong - and if they choose to place a low priority on that relationship, then tbh, there is very little that anyone (particularly a stepparent) can do.

Oh thank goodness common sense prevailed over the wicked stepmother stereotype. I thought I was going to get a bashing on this thread for daring to suggest that sometimes the kids might have to miss out.

Yes cheekymonkeys I did say to DP that I wondered what would happen if we booked the DCs into a club which was every weekend and she had to fit in around it... Obviously she would tell us we were totally unreasonable and had no right to plan things on her time. I would never do that though!

It is control. I think a lot of Exs have a hard time of letting go of what their DCs do (esp if their ex left them) and i do sympathise with that but I don't sympathise with the way his ex has reacted. She started sending us stupid texts and screengrabs of rehearsal schedules and telling us which weekends we MUST be available. (All after we had spoken to the organisers who had reassured us it was very relaxed and all about the kids having fun.) DP says she is extremely pushy (in a bad way) and wants her kids to have the main parts etc etc....

The things we wanted to do which wouldn't have allowed them to do their drama were weekends at their gparents and a weekend in London so as with any nuclear family I would expect that sometimes kids have to miss out. I find it very unhealthy when families are run 100% around kids and their activities.

The advice on standing up to her is helpful. DP just can't be arsed to argue with her as he endured 10 years of her shit whereas I just think "tell her like it is and put her back in her manipulative controlling box". It's the kids I feel sorry for as their divorce has had a much worse effect on them than it needed to :(

I am a single mum with a DC with no contact..So I spend my life ferrying DS round to various activities and yes I do see that as part of the role of a parent.

Yes mum should of discussed it first and yes I can imagine been annoyed about it, however I do think it is a nice way for NRP to get to be part of DC world. I also do think these acitvites should be shared if possible.

If you are annoyed about her not asking or speaking but dictating you what you do yes YANBU.. If you are annoyed that part of DSC activities they want to do are on a weekend YABU..imo

As for EOW activities. When I was a young child I went to a badminton club. I could only go once a month as I had to work for my Dad.. I really felt like I didn't belong it isn't a nice feeling.

It's only an issue if there's rancour between the parents, ex tried to prevent DC form going to parties on his weekend, I would not have objected to him taking them, so I used to switch my weekends if a party fell on his weekend. His behaviour an general attitude that the DC were some kind of possession was indicative of his attitude in general towards the DC. Also he enjoyed getting a rise out of me and dragging back and forth to court, he worked shifts so plenty of time to go to court and represent himself.

He didn't get far.

If the children want to do the activity, I would let them, they'll eventually vote with their feet anyway.

I don't think from the initial post the ex is wrong per se, she should have consulted the NRP however from the tone of the OP I'd think she anticipated a no so went ahead anyway, expecting the NRP to be more accepting of a fait accompli.

I would facilitate the activity when you're able and if you can't you can't.

It just reminds me how awful it was for all of us (me included) when ex had contact, thank god those days are well and truly over now.

Hurray for Catsmother! - I second this.

So if the OP arranges a club on say a Wednesday evening for the kids to go to then the mother should suck it up and take them because it is what the children want to do? Or before I get jumped on her DP arranges it because after all he is their dad.

I can't understand this children come first to the expense of all else - surely without the art of compromise all we are doing is raising a nation of entitled people that will struggle to become well adjusted and have relationships because they have always been taught that THEY are the most important people on the planet and their WANTS come first - and I do mean wants not needs.

I am interested how this works when child number 2 comes along and suddenly they have there own wants - what happens if they don't want to do the same club?

Does nobody ever say no to their kids? Nobody ever say not this week as we have plans?

I don't think from the initial post the ex is wrong per se, she should have consulted the NRP however from the tone of the OP I'd think she anticipated a no so went ahead anyway, expecting the NRP to be more accepting of a fait accompli.

And that's acceptable how?
My DH's ex wife did this and was told in court that it demonstrated a total lack of respect. Contact time with the NRP is exactly that - time for the children to spend with the NRP. What he/she does with the children in that time is their decision.

If residency is shared then I'd reckon it's fine for both parents to decide on activities, if not then the RP can't be expected on a weekday to facilitate an activity, with work and school and homework I know for a fact my DC's would not be able to keep it up, unless the activity was straight after school then I'd be fine with it I'd pick them up on the way home instead of from the child-minders (I don't drive so children would be shattered if DC attended a mid-week activity which ended say 7pm, doubt DC would want to do it either, they both get tonnes of homework) .

I have had DC doing different activities but as they were at the same school it didn't matter and they have done the same activities as well. And they've dropped activities. And they've been selected to participate in concerts when one has not (I work around it).

I do care a lot about what my DC feel and want. Their feelings and wishes are valid.

sanityseekers - I do :)

DS has so far missed football because:

• me and DP took the kids away for a week and it fell over a football day. (drama was cancelled that weekend so we didn't have an issue there.)
• ExH took DS to gparents
• ExH took DS to visit friends
• he didn't fancy going one day because it was raining (wuss.)

In my family it's give and take. Kids do come first but the grown ups needs and wants are important too. Becoming a parent doesn't suddenly make you just a taxi service....

If residency is shared then I'd reckon it's fine for both parents to decide on activities,

I think that's a good point - and if the NRP isn't sharing care, and the DCs contact with them is limited, then it becomes even more important that the RP weighs up the respective value of a weekly activity which disrupts the limited contact the DC has with their NRP.
But, I still don't think that it should be a unilateral decision - for instance I may decide that my DD can't do an archery class an hours drive away because I don't want her to miss that time with her dad, whereas he may value the conversation time in the car and combine the class with a visit to a relative who lives nearby.

But, when conversation between split parents is impossible, then the RP really is the one who makes the decisions and for the good of the DCs, the NRP is probably best to just accept them as "fait accompli".

if not then the RP can't be expected on a weekday to facilitate an activity, with work and school and homework I know for a fact my DC's would not be able to keep it up, unless the activity was straight after school then I'd be fine with it I'd pick them up on the way home instead of from the child-minders but that's it fuzzy you can decide within the limits of your capabilities what your children can do that they want and decide if this is practical or not.

In this case no consideration was given to the other house hold because they just need to suck it up.

Sanity if a NRP never ever has the DC during a weekday then the NRP can't decide a club during a weekday is beneficial for the child. Also the child would need to want to do it, would an NRP make a decision on a day that does not involve the NRP ever for their child?

If it was alternating Wednesdays and ex signed up DC to an activity they were really into, I'd facilitate it. Altho I find it impossible to believe ex would ever be doing so (as it would require him paying for it).

EOW is different, it's really restrictive and does hurt the DC. I remember DC telling me how she felt so left out when she couldn't go to a party and everyone in the class was talking about it the Friday before and the Monday after.

And DC couldn't do ballet as it took up every single weekend and she couldn't do swimming. I did tell both DC they couldn't as we'd not be able to make contact. It was the truth.

Where does it say the DCs wanted to do this. The DCs said that mum said the OP said she and DP don't want them to do it, no mention of them particularly wanting to do it.

DCs get sent to classes to get them out from under their DP's feet/ because the DP's have ambitions for them (due to unfulfilled desires from their childhood)/ because DP's are desperate they are successful and seen as as good as everyone else/ because DP's did nowt much in their youth and they think they missed out etc.

DCs go along with stuff. They are in school all week, time off at the weekend would be a good idea imo.

I do think this is a tricky issue, generally. We have no problems between DP and his ex, they co-parent well together and make decisions together.

But although DSS is football-mad and very proud to be part of his Saturday team (recently got promoted!), quite often when it comes to actually going to training on our weekends he says he doesn't want to go because he hardly ever gets to spend time at our house with his dad (he's only here every other weekend). And of course he has a point. DP always goes with him to watch, but it's 40m in the car, then a few hours of football, then 40m back again, so takes up quite a chunk of time.

So yeah, it's difficult to know what to do for the best when DSS is begging not to go and to stay here...because of course if he is bundled into the car and told he is going anyway, it's all fine and he has a great time. But sometimes (if it's not a match day) we just let him not go and we do other stuff with him here instead. Fortunately his mum is great and doesn't get cross about him missing it occasionally. She trusts DP to make that decision sometimes.

Overall, I think this is one of those things that's actually just really hard to get right in a separated family situation, especially where the parents don't live in the same area any more and especially where kids only have every other weekend contact with the NRP.

Why would you stop the DC doing something they want to do? Should the ex not allow them to do a club they really want to do simply because it might put your nose out of joint?

It's not "Your time". It's THEIR time.

olgaga It IS her time and the fathers time and the childrens time. Everybody is important in a family.

The whole point is that the OP doesn't have a problem with the SC having an activity as such..It's just the blatent disrespect of the ex booking it without consultation on THEIR (childrens and hers and the fathers) time. Why can't there be a discussion between parent to parent? Courts are very clear on the fact that one parent has no say over what happens on the other parents time (safety issues aside)..this includes taking it upon themselves to make plans for the child on the other parents time without discussing it like normal people.

I'm a single parent and my DS has no contact with his father. I have to have my weekends taken up with DS's activities when I'd rather be doing fun stuff.

Its just what parents do for their kids. Its in their best interests. There are many weekends when I most definitely wanted to do other things but I put my child first.

no73 is pretty much what I did/do.

My DCS father is so useless at contact arrangements. I tell him what, I planning - give him time to object , then execute.

Missing the occasional weekend activity is fine, but then EOW in our house is really on once every 3 months.

It has nothing to do with me controlling him and his new DP, it is about the DCs, what they want to do for 90% of their time.

Have to say if he organised an activity on my time which is 95% of the time, thus expecting me to change my childcare, work patterns etc - he would get a major hissy fit!

The feel that I get from this thread is that nrps shouldn't have to do any activity's on contact days because its there time.
So rps do the running around and fitting everything in but nrps are exempt from that. Why?
Tbh I think the ex Is being silly and should have consulted your dp.

She should have discussed signing them up with the both of you first, she should never have told her DC that, 'you and their dad don't want them to go to the club'...but she went ahead anyway! So the ONLY thing you and their dad can do now is assure them that of course they can go to the club if they wish, but take each weekend as it comes! Occasionally, offer them a fun time out as an alternative, if they choose the club, you can have a couple of hours out for lunch/dinner! If a family occasion/event comes up you both consider they should attend, then explain that this is what is going to happen, just this week, next week back to normal! And....I bet 9/10ths of the club's membership dont attend every week anyway!

Ask the children.

Would they mind missing the odd one so they could enjoy family time?

Do they want to attend every weekend without fail?

Are you all getting your knockers in a twist over something they will probably lose interest in.....as they all eventually do

Why in these situations does nobody bother to ask the children what THEY want or how THEY would like to spend their weekend?

It is ALWAYS dictated by the adults and frankly I rarely see a thread that starts.....The SDC want to spend THEIR free time ( weekends outside/school time) doing so and so.