'Mummy'

[SalfordM7]

My step-child was sent this email today by her mother and I want to know if it is reasonable. To put it in context, we are a conservative family where calling parents by their first name is unthinkable and other adults are either known as 'Mr / Mrs' or 'Auntie / Uncle'. That is our lifestyle choice and should not be the focus of your response:

......you have still been calling your step-mother 'mummy'.

I have already dealt with your younger brother as I saw a chat he was having with his father, where he refers to her as 'mummy', which she is not, and will never be, and when you return home, I'll deal with you, because I was under the impression that you understood how wrong it is for you to call anyone else, but me, 'mummy'. So, we'll be chatting about this after school.

OP, would you be prepared to consider being called something else? I know you say it is the children who initiated it, but I don't think that necessarily has to be the last word on the matter.

And thinking back on it, I only knew her by her last name

OP you've asked for advice as to a way forward from people who have experienced a similar thing, based on the circumstances you and your DH have created for your family.

Presumably, you knew in advance what the wider implications would be within your community if you and your DH married and blended your families? You knew that the DCs would be subject to exclusion/bullying if their peers (and more importantly, their parents) knew that you are not the DCs mum? You apparently were aware enough of the potential problems to allow the DCs to refer to you as Mummy prior to marriage or meeting you. And you have chosen for your DH to adopt your own DCs.

So, when you ask other people if they've been in a similar situation, you are effectively seeking people who have made similar choices to yourself and your DH. I would suggest that most people would have gone into marriage with more reflection and awareness than you seem to have done. As a professional, or even a layman with access to significant resources, it can't really have come as a surprise to you that 1) the DCs are expected to call you Mum, and 2) that their Mum is pissed off about it.

The situation you find yourself in is of your own creation. And sometimes, it's not possible to undo the impact of those choices - you have to find a way to live with the impact they have had on others, even if that means compromising your own values.

PeruvianFoodLover thank you for such a measured and thoughtful response.

Of course I was not surprised their mum is upset about it but I had no expectation of what the children would call me, save that I could not be called by my first name because that would not be acceptable in our community.

The children wanted to call me Mummy and, at the time, my husband had full custody of them, so their expectation was that I would be a mother to them, in addition to their mother who then lived over 30 miles away.

I created this thread in the genuine hope of receiving constructive and pragmatic advice because that is what I wanted but I confess to being shocken by the agressive tone adopted by certain members and it is unfortunate that part of this thread was hijacked by people seeking to air their personal prejudices without any foundation.

Furthermore, I was disappointed by the judgmental assumptions, including that I was the 'Other Women', loosely translated to mean that my husband must have been responsible for the break-up of his marriage, none of which were necessary in any event, not least to respond to my query.

Upon reflection, I think I clouded the issue by posting the original email; I wish I had simply asked 'When is it acceptable for a step-child to call a step-parent 'Mummy' or 'Daddy'?' but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I am bruised from this experience and am unlikely to write on this forum again. If I have offended you, I apologise and I forgive those of you who saw this as an opportunity to judge me and / or my husband and / or our 'cult' lifestyle.

Please tell me what sort of a community has a collective problem with people being called by their actual names?

Op mentioned that it was an international divorce. Maybe open and her dp are from a different culture. My dh is not British and his culture it is very rare for children to call adult by their first name. My dsc did use my first name to start with but then we created an affectionate family name just for me when it was clear the relationship was permanent. To be honest, people have been very judgemental here about the op' s community when they don't know anything about it. And while I understand the dsc' s dm might be upset, the email does seem threatening and sinister and if I were the children's father I would be talking to the dm about this. I also agree with pp that it might be best to sit with the dc and see if you can come up with a compromise to keep everybody happy as ultimately the children will bear the brunt of their dm's discontent. Good luck.

No way on this earth would any one with a first class honours degree in psychotherapy and who is a 'recognised parenting expert' believe that it was appropriate to:
a) agree to marry a man who's children she had never met
b) allow her first 'meeting' with said man's children to be over the phone and not have some kind of gradual 'getting to know you and see how we fit' period for all concerned
c) be comfortable with a child who has a parent (not matter how 'bad' that parent may or may not be) calling her 'mummy' from the get-go.

It's all total bollox. Either you're a troll or you're going to have some seriously fucked up step-kids on your hands by the time they reach their teens. I hope for the sake of the kids it's the first.

I think it's quite clear that the consensus of opinion is that it's never the right time to call a stepparent mummy or daddy if the child's birth mother or father is still living and a part of their lives. Isn't it?

She doesn't say 'in our culture' though...it is very definite on 'our community'.
My curiosity has been piqued.

You are not their Mother and certainly should on no account be called Mummy. If they call you this then they should be corrected. I do hope you are not encouraging this.

I'm struggling with what it must be like to live in a place where people actually care what the neighbours think.

Its pretty obvious all the children involved knew they would be expected to call their step parents "mummy/daddy". So you might say it was theit choice but it very clearly was dictated by the lifestyle you and your DH have chosen to lead. If the shool/community would never accept a child calling an adult by the first name then of course the child has no choice about what they call you unless you offer an alternative upfront. You are here asking for alternatives so how on earth could a young child be expected to come up with anything more imaginative than mummy?

the op has said in her last post that they live a cult lifestyle. Not sure why she thinks people wouldn't judge that, given that cults are all about brainwashing and there are children involved here.

\link{http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/8326339/Inside-the-private-world-of-Londons-ultra-Orthodox-Jews.html\this makes interesting reading}

No WannaBe! My reference to a 'cult' was a sarcastic reference to an earlier allegation.

However, when referring to 'the agressive tone adopted by certain members' and that 'this thread was hijacked by people seeking to air their personal prejudices without any foundation', I definitely had you in mind.

I don't know what I have done to warrant such treatment from you but I apologise anyway and bear no grudge for the things you have said.

I am not a troll, whatever that is and clearly I have missed the point of this forum, which I thought was to provide support and advice in a constructive manner.

I would go bonkers if I heard my child call anybody else 'mummy' and as somebody who had a step mother from being 3 yo and been a step mother to children from them being 2&3yo, I find it very very peculiar.
Children don't usually feel comfortable with calling another person 'mummy/mum'. I don't believe that they have made that decisions and I don't believe that you call everybody by those names, what does your DH call you? They should call you the same.

I had neighbours - no cults involved - with two small dds, who divorced and both parents remarried. The children called both sets of parent / step parent 'mum' and 'dad'. They would refer to them as 'mum and stepdad' 'dad and stepmum' but simply called them mum and dad when with them. They also genuinely did 50:50 care and bought houses in the same area so no schools issues. The girls were friends with my dc as teenagers so we saw a lot of them - I was very impressed with the way both sets of parents had put ego to one side and got on with parenting the girls.

Well thank goodness you're forgiving us all. You asked for and got opinions. Most of those opinions, unsurprisingly to us, say you're squarely in the wrong.

You can chose to focus on the comments on your community, some of which did go off piste, but to do so wouldn't be an honest assessment of the opinions or sound advice you received.

But like I said earlier, I don't believe for a minute you had any intention whatsoever of finding a compromise that would benefit your step-children or their mother.

op, it's very clear that you live an alternative lifestyle which does not fit with the usual norms of society. Where yours and your children's every action is controlled presumably by the leader of whatever sect it is you belong to.

I presume you have little control or even knowledge of what your stepchildren have been told by your husband, and that you live in an expectation of having to conform to a particular norm - one which is dictated most likely by the men in your community.

people have acted with some hostility here because A, your choices with regards to your step children are so beyond what would be perceived to be normal behaviour that people find that both shocking and unacceptable, and B, some of the claims that you have made when referring to your qualifications in conjunction with those decisions wrt your stepchildren (introductions by phone, mummy before they've met) are so implausible.

Any known child expert who came on to mn and advised women to allow the stepchildren to call them mummy from the get go and who advised the children not be introduced until marriage would be ripped to shreds both in a live chat and on numerous subsequent threads. In fact such advice would probably even make it into the papers because it is so incredibly radical and ill-advised.

If you are genuine op, then I suggest that perhaps you are under the control of your h and the wider community you are a part of, and that life really doesn't need to be like that.

If you stay on mn you will get an idea of what normal relationships both with partners, children, and stepchildren are supposed to be like.

I still don't understand why you are asking on MN rather than your community leader. Is your DSC's mum part of the same/similar community?

Salford - could you find a nickname for mummy that you all like? I did a quick google, and found a thread on google answers where one poster said she calls her mum Mimlet or Mim - might something like that be a reasonable compromise?

I had no expectation of what the children would call me, save that I could not be called by my first name because that would not be acceptable in our community.

This surprises me - particularly given how much thought and investment went into your DHs relationship with your own DCs - you must have discussed at length, both between you, and with other professionals, the issues that would arise from his application to adopt them - and the impact on his DCs of adopted siblings would have been an integral part of that.

Was the origional plan for you to adopt his DCs to? I can understand why they would choose to refer to you as Mummy from introduction if the intention and expectation was that you would adopt them.
The circumstances are obviously very complex - it is relatively unusual for a Dad to have sole residency of his DCs, and even more unusual for residency to be changed to a formerly absent parent - particularly in older children as your DSC seem to be.

But whatever the history, these DCs live with their Mum, who is unhappy about the way in which they refer to you. Whether she is being reasonable is questionable - but if you and your DH can make their lives a little bit easier with their mum by supporting them to change what they refer to you as, then that would be the child-focused thing to do. There are plenty of suggestions as an alternative to Mummy on this thread - have you considered any of them?

I had no expectation of what the children would call me,

You must have assumed they would call you aunty because of the rules of your community that the must call adults aunty/uncle. So when they first called you mummy it would have been a surprise to you and you should have corrected them. Except of course if you wanted them to call you mummy. You seem very formal, perhaps they should call you "Mrs(dad's surname)"

Op, you do know what a troll is, please don't pretend you don't.

I'm also curious to know what sort of community finds people being called by there actual names unacceptable. Please tell us. I genuinely want to know.