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AIBU to sympathise with absent fathers?

121 replies

WayBelowTheRainbow · 31/10/2014 00:15

Don't get me wrong, before I even get started, I would never condone a father walking out on a child. And most of the time I think it's disgusting that people can do that.. But the way my life is going at the minute.. I am slightly beginning to sympathise.. Hmm

My DP has 16 month old DS from his previous relationship with EXgf. Now, me and DP have been together for a while and I was definitely not the OW. I am not kidding EXgf has made both mine and DP life a living hell to the point where there has been numbers changed because of harassment and house moves because of it all.. It's getting beyond the point where it's bearable.. She has said that if he gives up his parental responsibility so she can have DS to herself she will stop.. Therefore she is making it near enough impossible for DP to see his son, now DP would never give up on his son because he loves him more than life itself. But it doesn't make me wonder, AIBU to sympathise with fathers who do give up (only in situations like this, no other circumstance would I ever even consider it)

Probably gonna get a bit of a backlash but needed somewhere to rant as well as ask! Confused

OP posts:
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HonestLie · 06/11/2014 23:13

I agree that it's vile that some people use this but the way your post is written is horrible

StardustBikini · 06/11/2014 23:15

smukogrig I disagree that withholding access for no good reason can be described as "growing a backbone" - surely it is abusive?

Smukogrig · 06/11/2014 23:18

Saying basically that she married him so she can't complain about the man he later became (or always was) is dreadful. So misogynist.

My x was probably always the same man but due to a low self-esteem at the time I 'accepted' the low level of disrespect to begin with. It became worse after I'd had a child and was financially dependent on him. something that he simultaneously bullied me in to, and despise me for. Confused
I in no way deserved the treatment I received just because I had a child with him. To suggest that if you have a child with a man or if you marry him then you have no right to later complain no matter how badly you're treated is dreadful. Ican't believe that there are women out there who think like this.

HonestLie · 06/11/2014 23:18

Actually star I apologise I've just re-read and can see what you were replying to. I misread your post.

StardustBikini · 06/11/2014 23:21

hinestlie as I said, I apologise if my wording upset you.

For those who have been falsely accused, who have been doubted and questioned, for those whose lives and families have been turned upside done, it is indeed as horrible and unpleasant as my post implies.

Smukogrig · 06/11/2014 23:23

abusive of me to finally after seven years of bending over so far backwards that my back (and my soul) were broken to erect a boundary, a boundary that outraged him?

My x tried to stangle me. He denied it later as he brought me a cup of tea. His current girlfriend no doubt thinks I'm unreasonable. If anything I did was abusive it was abusive to my children to allow him to see them. I was trying to honour their rights even though he had forfeited his. It's a difficult line to walk.

I agree with ginandsonic upthread, The importance of the mother's well-being is underestimated in these situations. I'd had years of being bullied and ground down and verbally, emotionally and financially abused by my x. I was a wreck. I had to stay sane. Having him walk all over us would have destroyed all of our lives.

StardustBikini · 06/11/2014 23:25

I in no way deserved the treatment I received just because I had a child with him. To suggest that if you have a child with a man or if you marry him then you have no right to later complain no matter how badly you're treated is dreadful. Ican't believe that there are women out there who think like this.

I haven't said this! I was specifically referring the comment about mothers who "withhold access for no good reason". It is those mothers who I said always have "a reason", a reason based on lies and false allegations. And it is those mothers, who falsely claim that the man they were happily married to turns into a monster overnight, who are themselves becoming unrecognisable as the loving mother and wife they once were.

Smukogrig · 06/11/2014 23:27

Oh you seemed to think that I withheld access for no reason. I don't know why you would think that. That was not the case. I allowed him access (limited though) despite the fact that he was extremely abusive to me. Foolish of me, I don't know if I did the right thing. My x is very conscious of his rights whilst trampling over mine. He doesn't notice when MY rights are violated. He has an acute awareness of his own rights though. It's a superpower nearly.

StardustBikini · 06/11/2014 23:31

Oh you seemed to think that I withheld access for no reason. I don't know why you would think that. That was not the case

I think we may have misunderstood each other Flowers I was certainly not directing my comments at any genuine victims of DV - I was trying to highlight that the experience if those victims is used by some mothers maliciously, to further their own agenda and withhold contact for their own reasons.

daisychainmail · 06/11/2014 23:35

I think the real point is that sometimes one person in a marriage can turn out to be a complete monster, and that can be either the man or the woman. Therefore the Q. of whether to sympathise with absent fathers in an acrimonious situation can be yes or no depending on which one they were. The thing is if the father is a crappy, abusive bastard it is more obvious than if the mother is.

Smukogrig · 06/11/2014 23:36

i think your post upsets me because it's inevitable that some of the women you dismiss as using allegations of abuse to further their own agenda will inevitably be telling the truth because I know my x refused to acknowledge that he'd been abusive to me, his family alll heaped more abuse on me for daring to leave. There was no proof. He saw him self as entitled to have all his demands met. So therefore, in his eyes and his friends and families eyes my justification for leaving him was lies. Probably all his colleagues think what you typed, about furthering agendas etc...........

I would have wanted a decent father for my children, if that'd had been possible.

StardustBikini · 06/11/2014 23:51

smukogrig yes, you're right. False allegations by some make it harder for genuine victims to be believed.

But if all allegations are believed without question, including those with malicious intent, then children will be robbed if their loving fathers, and families will be turned upside down.

Until falsely alleging becomes socially unacceptable and legally penalised, there will always be genuine victims such as yourself who struggle to make your voice heard.

GinAndSonic · 07/11/2014 07:01

The thing is, you cant prove that allegations are false. Many women dont admit abuse even to themselves until some time has passed and they are able to think clearly again and see the situation for what it was. In my case, i knew i was unhappy and he was being awful, but it took months before i could say "i was abused, and so were my children simply by living in that environment".
I think its fair to say that the vast, overwhelming majority of women who say they were abused WERE. I also think its fair to say the vast, overwhelming majority of abusers dont believe their actions were abusive and/or flatly deny it. They ARE outraged at the accusation because they beleive (or want to beleive) that they are not abusers. Ill also say that imo, not all abuse is deliberate, that some men are not TRYING to abuse their partners /exes, but their behaviour is STILL unnaceptable and it is still abuse.
Now, im an optimist. I like to beleive that people are not inherently bad, that we are all inherently good, and that even people who have done terrible things can change. I believe in rehabilitation of serious criminals, so i cannot believe that "once an abuser, always an abuser". Because of this i accept that some men who made their exes lives miserable no longer exhibit these abusive behaviours, and that their new partners will see a good man, torn up at the loss of contact with their children. I can have sympathy for their pain, while still beleiving their ex, and holding the man responsible for his behaviour and the situation they find themselves in. Who could blame the new partner (family, friends) for her sympathy for the good, kind, loving man she knows? And who could blame the ex for her reluctance to allow contact OR her attempts to control the contact tightly, on her terms? Once bitten, twice shy and all that. If a woman has had all control taken from her in an abusive relationship, its understandable that when she is trying to allow contact she will want to retain control, because using the children to intimidate and control the mother is very common.
Then there are the unchanged abusers, who are skilled liars and manipulators, who are very convincing, very difficult to disbeleive. They may even admit to some wrongdoing, their sorrow and regret over their selected admitted errors just enhances their story, makes it more beleivable. Again, you cannot blame their new partners (family, friends) for believing and sympathising, and you cannot blame their victims for not wanting to allow contact / lose control of the situation.
I do however, refuse to beleive that vast numbers of women lie outright just to be bitches. I know some utter cunts and none of them would stoop so low as that. The figures for dv and rape speak for themselves, the fact is that large numbers of men DO treat women appaulingly, and large numbers of women do suffer at their hands. Given the figures, we can probably assume that we all know a rapist or and abuser (and i am deliberately including rape here, as it is an example, like dv, of utter disrespect for women as humans) and we probably dont even SUSPECT them of such behaviour. The look like normal people.
So yes, i can understand sympathy for the pain and distress of being seperated from your child, but id be very reluctant to disbeleive a woman who said she was abused.

GinAndSonic · 07/11/2014 07:09

Whoops, long and rambling, its early and the kids are bouncy!
My point is, yes you can know your partner is not like that now, feel sympathy, be upset about the situation, but accept at least the POSSIBILITY that he WAS that man, that he DID abuse his ex.
Disbeleiving women who report dv because "hes not like that" is just ignoring the fact that abusers can be anyone, that they are not wearing wanker flag, that they arent evil people. They are just people who did bad things. They can change. Everyone has the choice of how to behave. Everyone can be a good person. Everyone can be a bad person.
Dont dismiss people as liars because their truth would disrupt your view of reality.

StardustBikini · 07/11/2014 07:42

Dont dismiss people as liars because their truth would disrupt your view of reality.

That works both ways though, doesn't it? You are also limiting your belief of others because it would disrupt your own view of reality.

I do however, refuse to believe that vast numbers of women lie outright just to be bitches. I know some utter cunts and none of them would stoop so low as that.

StardustBikini · 07/11/2014 07:47

And, in my DHs particular case, as in many cases - his ex is not alleging historical abuse. She is alleging that his current behaviour, which I am party to, is abusive.
So there's no need for me to be open to the possibility that "he was that man" as she isn't claiming it happened in the past.

That's what I mean when I say that some women allege that their ex has changed overnight. They claim he has changed - not that he was always abusive.

DanaBarrett · 07/11/2014 19:52

Totally agree Whatever21. Ironically it sounds like you are on the receiving end of behaviour that is almost exactly the same as what we are enduring!

I totally sympathise with you, it comes down to those who are decent human beings and those who are not Sad such a shame those who are not can play with childrens lives in such a way.

robotroy · 17/11/2014 14:56

Haven't read every post here as it's quite long, but sympathise with the feelings of the OP. The abuse we have taken in the last 6 years, seeing my partner physically shaking for hours after being screamed at by his abuser just for having the audacity to want to see his child as is his child's right in a court order is quite simply the most awful thing I've ever been through in my life or seen anyone else go through. His ex just wants him out of their life again because she has a new boyfriend, so she will scream and bully and abuse both him and his child to attempt to gain this end. It is so sickening and we both have needed medical help with the distress and depression it has caused. Of course it would be easier to cut contact and stop the abuse. There's no question our lives have been shortened by it.

I believe that if families separate non resident parents should automatically have alternate weekend contact as a child's right. It should be in place and be enforced unless the resident parent is able to prove it should be otherwise. It is disgusting what non resident parents have to go through just to see their own children. It destroys people, it destroys children, and it's unnecessary. It completely sickens me.

To anyone who has been abused by their ex's and harassed and abused out of seeing their own children, I have total and utter sympathy. Even if they live with a harem of 'other women' it is a disgusting thing for people to do to their own child, and be assured they will grow in future to hate the parent who wilfully destroys and denies a parent in this way.

Whatever21 · 17/11/2014 18:38

It has taken 3 yrs and after 15 yrs of marriage to admit that my EX was always controlling, emotionally and verbally abusive.

Not in ways that people consider - screaming and shouting but in very subtle undermining ways. It destroyed my confidence in my self and in terms of having another relationship - I am so wary of trusting anyone.

I am a mother and ahighly successful career woman. People who see me at work, would never consider me to be a victim of this type of abusive and yes it still continues. Does my EX love his DCs - there is no doubt, does he realise he is using monies and DCs as pawns and weapons- no I do not think he does. He and his new DP, think because I have a good job - then it is acceptable, to manipulate, put the onus of everything on me and sit and criticise my parenting.

It is hard even now, knowing what they are doing to not feel bad, question myself and keep everything up in the air and stay positive. You wonder what the hell you did wrong to make people so vindictive - I just want to provide for my DCs, love them, enjoy them and nurture them into adulthood, I want them to know their father, as they should have a relationship with him and understand the joy of having a father - it is not me stopping that relationship.

WillkommenBienvenue · 18/11/2014 15:40

Ginandsonic what a brilliant post.

Whatever21 · 18/11/2014 22:41

robot - every nrp should have the right to eow by law.

Exactly, wouldn't that be lovely - the nrp then gets to abuse the rp some more - because they have the law on their side and the RP does not. The RP must make the DCs available but when the NRP can not do that weekend - and it will happen for legit reasons, RP gets to pick up the slack.

If RP want to swap - then abusive nrp - can say, well the law says I must have......

The shit that so many RPs have to go through to ensure their DCs have a relationship with the NRP, is unforgivable, the day, time changing, late returns, gone away for a weekend but do not want the kids on my weekend, with holding of maintenance etc etc etc etc .

My EX continues to control my life abusively, because he knows I will do almost anything to make sure the DCS have a relationship with him, when I refuse - who suffers, not me the DCs.

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