AIBU to sympathise with absent fathers?

[WayBelowTheRainbow]

Don't get me wrong, before I even get started, I would never condone a father walking out on a child. And most of the time I think it's disgusting that people can do that.. But the way my life is going at the minute.. I am slightly beginning to sympathise..

My DP has 16 month old DS from his previous relationship with EXgf. Now, me and DP have been together for a while and I was definitely not the OW. I am not kidding EXgf has made both mine and DP life a living hell to the point where there has been numbers changed because of harassment and house moves because of it all.. It's getting beyond the point where it's bearable.. She has said that if he gives up his parental responsibility so she can have DS to herself she will stop.. Therefore she is making it near enough impossible for DP to see his son, now DP would never give up on his son because he loves him more than life itself. But it doesn't make me wonder, AIBU to sympathise with fathers who do give up (only in situations like this, no other circumstance would I ever even consider it)

Probably gonna get a bit of a backlash but needed somewhere to rant as well as ask!

Ginandsonic the only time it's acceptable to stop contact is where there is genuine fear for your children's safety.

I just typed a huge reply then lost it.

Basically, noseyfrog, it boiled down to "i beleive my own personal safety and the emotional wellbeing of my children and myself are equally as important as the childrens pysical safety, and when i spoke to domestic violence support workers, police and social services, they all agreed and told me im under no obligation to offer contact until such a time that he obtains a court order".

Now, as i happens, i never wanted to disrupt my childrens relationship with their father, but when im seeing my children be devastated time and again by being let down, or sent home early, or witnessing their father intimidate, harrass and abuse me, then yes. I stopped contact.

He is a terrible father. He is selfish. He doesnt love his children, if he did he would make more effort to see them, he wouldnt ignore them in favour of grilling me, he wouldnt have refused to hand over their clothes and toys for 8 months, until i turned up with the police to collect them. However, he is their father, and,being too small to see his behaviour clearlyc(they are now 5 and 3), they love him. I dont want to see them hurt by his rejection. But i have. Ive cuddled them through their tears when he failed to turn up to collect them, or when he sent them home early, or only took one child, or told them he doesnt like my new DP, or that it was mammy who made him shout. I took steps to protect them. And for the 4 months they had no contact they blossomed. I then voluntarily restarted contact, and their sleeping, eating and behaviour is suffering, probably due to repeated let downs etc. He supposed to have every other saturday overnight, and he was going to have half the half term. He cancelled last weekend as he was invited to a party, and refused his half term time because when i text to ask about drop off times i simply wrote "what time am i dropping DC off?" and he objected to me not starting with "hello".

So, thank you for so beautifully demonstrating why i lost friends. Because obviously fuck my personal safety. Im a woman. I should just take as much shit as my abusive ex can throw because HE HAS THE RIGHT TO SEE HIS KIDS, and fuck it it it means myself and his children are abused in the process. And if you refuse to put yourself in the line of fire and cut contact you must be an evil, manipulative bitch who is trying to poison the kids against their dad

Sorry nosey I disagree. Children can be "safe" whilst not being cared for properly. The safety, care and wellbeing of the child is paramount. If any of these aren't being met adequately then I think the right thing to do is remove the children from the situation.

The problem is gin that there are mothers out there who don't put their DCs first. They use the experiences of other women, like you describe, to gain support and sympathy for their own agenda.

As a result, DCs on both sides of the equation miss out. DCs like your own who are forced into an abusive situation if your assertions are doubted, and DCs whose mothers make false allegations miss out on a relationship with their Dads if their mums are believed.

There is a therory that implacable hostility to contact by resident mothers is becoming more prevelent because of the social shift towards more equal parenting, post separation. A generation or so ago, a hostile mum wouldn't have to make allegations or accuse her DCs dad of being abusive/inadequate because he had no expectations of being an equal parent after divorce, and would certainly not have secured support to do so. But now that CAFCASS, Relate, Resolution and the Courts themselves are promoting day to day parenting by both separated parents, a mum who is hostile to that has to go to far greater lengths in order to exclude her ex from the DCs lives.

And families like yours, where there are genuine concerns, are innocent victims of those other women's actions, as it becomes harder for professionals, and society, to distinguish between genuine cases and false allegations.

Yabu but only because the reason is so YOU don't get it in the neck.
However, when I was younger my parents would be on and off. When they were off it was hell. She'd constantly fire questions at me about dad's new girlfriend, what we did there, whether I had more fun at hers etc... It literally went on and on. In fact, I think it's shaped how I am now and not in a positive way. I loved my dad to bits (still do) but think if it had persisted I would've looked for excuses not to see him because I knew I'd get guilt trip when I got back and shouted at if I so much as uttered anything positive from my visit. They got back together (God knows why) but if they'd remained separated I would've opted not too see dad just to stop the emotional abuse.
People say get a court order. Yeah a court order would've done nothing for my situation.

I had a friend whose DC's father left after a few months, she never got regular maintenance money, turned with extravagant Christmas presents one year (when they were struggling to feed themselves) and the next didn't show up when he was supposed to -wanted contact but not pay maintenance and was completely unreliable. Went on for years.
Friend then met and married someone else - wanted to get DC adopted by new partner. Father hadn't seen/paid maintenance then for 4 years. But he was with a new partner and had a newborn DC. Don't know if he was pushed by his new partner or wanted to show them he was trustworthy or something but he tried to block it...started paying maintenance again and had regular contact - lasted for about 6 months before he started messing around again. The DC was the one that suffered the most in all this. In the end he was adopted.
Not saying it is the case here at all - but I'm sure his new partner had a very skewed view of the reality - and my friend was painted as nasty vindictive bitch.

stardust yes, i know there are, ive met some of them, im not doubting their existance. But as Noseyfrog demonstrated, for some people, anything short of physical abuse of the kids is no good reason to stop contact, and i have had plenty of people tell me how i should just crack on and accept abuse and harrasment from my ex, and give him chance after chance after chance. No matter how many times we stand in the rain waiting for him when he has no intention of turning up to collect them, its not enough. Im expected to put the kids through it, time and again, or else poor him, i stopped him seeing his kids.

Imo, it would be healthier for them to have no contact than contact which simply demonstrates to them how far down his list of priorities they come. It is not healthy to know that your parent doesnt really care about you.

We hear too many cases where lazy arse Ex husbands think their jobs take priority over the Ex wives and expect them to provide childcare Mon- Fri but also earn enough money so they can provide a home for their DCS. Combining childcare and work on a daily basis is sodding hard - when the father only wants them at the weekend.

Many Exs are not SAHMs and do not work shorter hours than their ex- husbands, they learn to accommodate the fact that the father will not contribute to child care during the week usually by using the maintenance to get wraparound childcare, ergo having less mney to spend on their DCs needs - because they are paying the fathers share of childcare.

Sorry what does RP vs NRP have to do with work flexibility - my work affords me no more flexibility as a parent, my EXs work flexibility is so much greater than mine, by virtue of what he does - he just chooses not to front up and do his share of child care for his DCs, the burden and the cost for his fecklessness then sits with the mother. Sorry- complete rubbish.

Sorry what does RP vs NRP have to do with work flexibility - my work affords me no more flexibility as a parent, my EXs work flexibility is so much greater than mine, by virtue of what he does

In England and Wales, resident parents are afforded flexibility in law. The fact that your ex's job choice provides him with additional flexibility does not negate the fact that non-resident parents are not entitled to the flexibility protected by law for parents.

Resident parents of children under school age are not required to seek employment in order to be eligible for benefits - non-resident parents are not afforded that flexibility.

Resident parents of young school age children are permitted to limit their availability to work while still remaining eligible for benefits - non-resident parents are not afforded that flexibility.

A resident parent is entitled to emergency time off work - non-resident parents are not afforded that flexibility.

A resident parent is entitled to parental leave - non-resident parents are not afforded this flexibility (although there have been cases where employers have awarded it, the legal entitlement has not been proven afaik).

If non-resident parents are expected to fulfil an equal parenting role, the society will need to provide them with equal capacity to do so.

In my DH’s case – prior to his divorce, he’s the first to admit he didn’t spend much time with his children Monday-Friday, due to his working hours. Everyone always said that he was a good bread winner, his wife and children had a comfortable home and lifestyle, he was always considered a good father. However after the divorce: he was still paying towards his ex’s household, plus maintenance AND of course a new home for himself. So far more costs to pay.

And then the ex (who decided to end the marriage) suddenly expects him to factor a significant amount of childcare/school runs into his working week, knowing darn fine he simply couldn’t do this with his job, especially with all the increased costs that come with a split family.

DH works in the building industry. If the concrete is due to arrive on site at 7.30am, no one gives a f* about his ex’s demands, he’s simply got to be present on site to sort things out.

Whether you like it or not, working long hours to earn good money often means spending less time with the children. In a ‘together’ family, this is considered a ‘good work ethic’ in a man, but a non-resident father working long hours is often criticised. Some men really can’t win!

My DH was hands on with his older children in the marriage, but once she got custody his ex moved away to a really crap place

It's not like he could pack in his job and move too to carry on with the childcare. But he sees them at the weekends. They are older anyway, and what's annoying is they'll always have this narrative of 'dad wasn't around for the real parenting' when in reality he was for a decade of each of their lives.

My XH was very hands on too, totally worshipped his DD yet left when she was 4 after an emotional affair with the woman he is now with. DD is now 6.

I am self employed, as is XH. I run myself ragged working all hours, evenings, weekends, working around school hours, taking her swimming lessons etc. XH refused to see her one night a week as he was working. He refuses to have her in the holidays as he is working.

He cannot see that I also dont get paid if I dont work, that 13 weeks a year I have to find childcare. He never rings DD because he is too busy and she should ring him. She is 6yo.

I have had XMIL bleating this week that he doesn't see her because she is never home because I am always taking her on holiday.... (6 days out of 6 weeks in the summer).....

He cant take time off work as he cant afford it. the nature of his work means that he doesnt know what he is doing from one day to the next. the nature of my work means that I know what I am doing a month ahead and have to plan for that.

Yet he takes a week off to go abroad with his gf and her parents, therefore proving that she is his priority because he wont take a week off for his child.

He chose to move 2.5 hours away, and is now complaining about doing a 5 hour round trip twice in one weekend, yet he drives for a living.

so while I have emails begging him to ring her once a week, and to see her once a week, to continue EOW now he has moved, he has painted me to XMIL as being unreasonable and not allowing him to see DD.

I wish now that I had gone to court when he left and got an arrangement of EOW and half the holidays. I love having DD, but I have to work, the same as he does. He doesnt have to run around after DD, he has a partner to share living costs. He pays me £50 a week and begrudges that saying that he is being far too generous... He threatened going to the CSA so I said bring it on because CSA would be £57 a week.

So while XH is not currently totally absent, he is gradually cutting contact more and more, blaming me for it, yet he is the one who chooses not to ring, who chose to move away...

There's no accounting for stupidity and selfishness, skye.

The problem is, there are literally thousands of Dads who would walk over hot coals to have the opportunities your ex has to spend time with their DCs, but who are blocked and rejected from their DCs lives by mums who are as selfish and stupid as your ex is.

It is very difficult because I am painted as unreasonable for "not letting him see DD" when he just texts randomly to see her. He said if she is busy then she is busy, but in reality when she is busy, he accuses me of not letting him see her.

He has rung her around 6 times since January, usually when we are on holiday, not at any other time, which I think he does to be deliberately disruptive. i wouldnt mind him ringing then though if he rang her every week.

He hasn't had her for Christmas ever as she prefers to be with me and I don't see why he should have her for Christmas when he won't ever have her in the holidays. He can't just pick the nice bits and let me do the work the rest of the time. and before anyone says that I am a bitch for not letting him have her at Christmas, the first year that he was gone, I offered him Boxing Day as we always spent that with his family. He said no, that she would have a better day with my family.... I then found out that he was going to a football match. so priorities again - football more important than DD.

I have no doubt that he bleats to all and sundry that he would like to see his DD more and that I dont make it easy for him, but my emails to him tell a very different story.

I told him that there are dads out there who would give anything to see their DC every week, to have half the holidays etc etc. All he says is that he has to work and thats that.

It is very difficult because I am painted as unreasonable for "not letting him see DD"

Most of us can relate to that - as stepmums we're labelled unreasonable, selfish and uncaring for all sorts of reasons, sometimes even breathing!

What you face as a mum with an unreasonable ex is no different from the dads who have similarly unreasonable ex spouses and who are labelled losers, abusers and deadbeats. The difference is that (in most cases) the unreasonable mums are the ones with primary care, and withholding contact is an all to common weapon used.

One of the problem is that NRPS with unreasonable ex's do have the option to go down a legal route. I know that this isn't easy a sometimes doesn't work but for RP with unreasonable ex's they can't get contact orders for their ex to pitch in more with the parenting. They are left to suck it up trying to juggle work and family - they have no choice. The only thing they can go down a legal route for is CM

Yeah but that's just the same situation as for married people. You can't do anything legally to make your husband do more childcare (or more housework)!!!

Correct daisy but there are many things in a marriage that become obsolete once you split up. There is usually a mutual agreement on how finances, childcare etc is split when you are part of a family unit.

Once a family unit is split each adult is responsible for themselves. It would not be looked on favorably if a RP who worked lesser hours therefore brought in a smaller wage expected their ex to provide the same financial support that they did while they were together, please note I am not talking about child maintenance I am talking about financial support for the other adult. So if that's not acceptable for the RP to expect why is it fair in reverse?

You say Yeah but that's just the same situation as for married people but the point is what the situation is for a married couple doesn't matter, they are no longer married.

I can imagine how annoying and crap it all is.

I don't know anyone divorced who has a good situation re. kids/finances (i.e. as good as before splitting up).

but for RP with unreasonable ex's they can't get contact orders for their ex to pitch in more with the parenting

That's not necessarily true - a court can order shared care/contact regardless of the willingness of either parent to engage. Have you tried? The CAFCASS officers local to us say that most of the cases they deal with here are applications from resident parents trying to secure some contact for the DC with the non-resident parent.

My DH (the NRP) is currently subject to a Child Arrangments Order that requires him to spend a set amount of time with DSS. If he breaches it, and is unavailable or refuses, then his ex can take him back to court for breach of the Court Order.

Of course, very few responsible resident parents would hand their child over to a reluctant non-resident parent for contact or care.
Whereas, responsible non-resident parents frequently seek contact with their child despite the reluctance of the resident parent. I'm not sure either is good for the DCs, if I'm honest.

I wasn't really passing comment on whether I thought it was responsible or not. From that aspect I actually don't think it's a good idea to push access upon anyone who doesn't want it. I don't think that is in the children's best interests at all.

Through my work I deal a lot with people who have child arrangement orders and I've got to admit, I have never came across a case where the NRP has been forced to take more contact than they have proposed. Less? Yes. More? No.

Actually that isn't strictly true. The only time I have seen it though is in cases where the child/ren have been removed from the RPs care.

Just my experience of it.

I have never came across a case where the NRP has been forced to take more contact than they have proposed. Less? Yes. More? No.

Presumably, those are all cases where the NRP has made the application, though? DH was the respondent, and didn't "propose" anything - his ex did. the court ignored her

I was always under the impression that a court order was made in the NRP's favour - which means the RP is legally obliged to make the child available for access, but the NRP isn't legally obliged to have the access.

So whilst the father may be granted access by the courts, but he isn't forced to take it.

Very interesting comments. I have thought about taking XH to court to have DD half the holidays and to ring once a week but then think why force him to see her. It's for her sake to see him and also for myself to help with work, but he should want to see her. His mum backs him up, oh he's so busy etc.

If he had stuck around I wouldn't be working this hard, I'd have somebody to share finances and decisions, somebody else to help with homework etc. to take over when it gets tough. That's the parenting/relationship we had. Now I work all day and all night sometimes, and still have to do everything else on top.

The NRP doesn't get how hard it is for the single parent. Plus if he wants to go out on his weekend he just tells me that he can't have her! Whereas I have to get a babysitter.

It's a minefield and I do feel sorry for the dads whose DC are taken away from them.