please please help really scared

[scarlettandrhett]

DH and I have our own DS and DH has a DD my DSD.

Getting contact was horrendous as ex stopped all contact when she found out about me. I was not the OW. I met DH long after they split up, they were not married.
During the court hearing and out of the blue, she phones me and wants a agreement over contact that we can put before the judge. The suggestion she gave was what DH had wanted. The judge stamped the order.
My gut was telling me that as long as DH played by her rules, all would be ok but if he stepped out of line, all hell would break loose.

Contact was great for the next 3 years. We got DSD more than the court order stated. I became ex "new best friend" and DH and I played her game.

Last month, DH made a geniune mistake over drop off and she went nuts, calling DH every name under the son. DH had had enough and told her so. Yes, contact was stopped, all attempts at communication were stopped.

About 3 hours ago, she came to our door and said she wanted to sort it out. Like a fool, I let her in.
I cannot believe what happened next and even as I write this I feel that I will wake up from a dream.

She proceded to tell us if we take her back to court, she will say DH was abusing DSD. She said that even though it is not true the fallout will affect our own DS. She said she will go to SS with these claims and will say she has real fears for my DS as well. She will go to the police and ensure our DS is removed from our home until an investigation is completed. She said she will tell SS that was why she stopped contact. She is a teacher and knows what do. I thought DH was going to go for her. She was calm, not shouting, screaming, just very calm and smiled through it all.

I cannot believe this is happening, I cannot even find the words to describe it. After she said this, it is all a haze, she walked out our home them. What do we do? What happens. I am really scared now.

I have changed my name

To be fair to the police, Hissy, they did their job in preventing a breach of the peace. They assessed the situation and concluded that the child in question was in a safe place with an appropriate person. There was little else they could do. It is not their job to mediate in disputes about contact.

I think they've done a good job when they've been involved in this case by firing a warning shot across the bows of the ex and then making it clear that she had to leave without her DD tonight.

I think you have handled it all brilliantly.

I agree that maybe a few days at her grandparents could help her to get her head straight.

This is a drama between the ex spouses, and OP you have been dragged into it. However, I think you could help enormously as a possible neutral force and you could help your DSD understand her mother's possible motivations ( and thereby heal some of the rift between mother and daughter.)

Maybe you could explain, for example, that ex wanted to control contact because she was afraid of exactly this situation - DSD going to live with dad. She made a Massive, Huge, terrible error of judgement in threatening your family, and its bitten her in the arse But maybe have DSD think about the possible motivations - maybe ex is lonely when DSD is away, maybe she is jealous on your happy little family, maybe she is scared that her little girl is growing up.

I just think if you can wedge the door ajar, and almost give permission for your DSD to forgive her mum if she wants to, it will put both you and your DH in a better position relationship wise. It also gives DSD an "in" to go back to her mum, with your blessing and understanding. Right now, she would be stuck between the two camps, unsure of where she wants to be. And all at a really vulnerable time in her life.

Also, you get to be seen to be compassionate and empathetic towards ex (and especially if she is going to slag you off).

I also think you handled it brilliantly. Well done to you and your DH. I hope your DS is ok also.

Yeap, I think you handled it very well, OP, but my heart breaks for your DSD, to suddenly find out that her mother tells her needless lies... I don't blame her for not wanting to go back to her mother, under the circs.

I think DwellsUndertheSink has a point, but I doubt that you are the person to help her think of some reasonable explanation for her mother's behaviour. But hopefully she will be able to fathom it and forgive her mother.

You need to record a conversation with her
Just run it past her with 'I'm sorry, I just need to clarify whatyouwant from me. You want me to have no contact withDS but if I do, you'll make up lies about me abusing my children'

Sorry I'm a bit behind

I agree with Dwells. I would play up the angle that the ex has made a terrible mistake (although this would work better if the ex actually thought that or even acknowledged that she had done it).

I too agree with explaining to your DSD that adults do make terrible mistakes and can't always give a balanced view of things when they are hurting and angry etc.

I wish strength to cope with the coming weeks.

I wonder if once DD has made her decision your DH can write a neutral email to his ex stating "At the moment DD is expressing a resolute wish to be resident with us. Scarlett and I will continue to encourage her to have a regular contact with you so that when/if she decides that she would like a different arrangement it can be facilitated easily. Hopefully in a few weeks once DD is feeling less emotional she will be open to shared residency at the very least."

Something like that worth trying????

I actually think that explaining all this to your dsd has put her in a very difficult position

Her Mum put them in the difficult position. So they should have lied/covered up to a 16 year old girl to make her mum look better and them look crap again? That would have been a huge long term mistake.

What a horrendous situation OP. I think you've dealt with it brilliantly. I hope it goes well on Monday.

john I think the OPs DSD is 13, not 16.

It is possible that the OPs DP will be criticised by the court for sharing the level of detail they have with the DC - it will very much depend on the judge/magistrates at each hearing (there will be several) and the opinion of the advising CAFCASS officers. It is not, by any means, an issue that the family court system are united on.

She's not 13. She's 12.

The OP and her DH had to make a judgement about what to tell her. There were plenty of posters telling them to give her the whole truth and some, like me, suggesting that they left some detail out.

It's very easy to look back and say you shouldn't have done this or that. The OP and her DH did their best in very difficult circumstances using their knowledge of this particular child. 12YOs can vary greatly in maturity and life experiences. Whatever they had done, they would probably have ended up wishing they could change it at some point.

OP, I strongly recommend that you don't get into any discussions with the ex about the future until your DH has discussed the whole matter with his solicitor.

I agree wholeheartedly with Dwells. Scarlett, you and dh have done very well in your firefighting of this awful situation. Do you think you can both dig a bit deeper and find it in yourselves to do as Dwells suggests, for the good of your dsd? It is a lot to ask of you both, and especially of you, but your dsd is in a dreadful position now, and needs to find a way to allow herself to love you all, without fear. You can help her, now. (You are not responsible for how ex behaves. It does look like dsd would be able to interpret her mother's behaviour for herself though.)

DSD needs to find a balance now. You can help, by ensuring she knows that she can rely on you unconditionally.

If you do as Dwells suggests, then dsd will o longer have to worry about your half of the equation, which will help her immeasurably, even if she does decide to go back to her mum's at some point.

Poor DSd.

It is good for her to know exactly what has been going on, but so awful to be caught in the middle like that.

Sorry re. age mistake.

I remain uncertain at how much of a cover up posters expect OP and her husband to have done? It is not their role to pretend the ex is a normal human being.
Their role is to take care of and defend the child.
They have been forced to explain that they haven't been letting her down as the ex said: it is unsurprising that the girl can work out for herself that her mother is a liar.

Quick update

DSD still saying she does not want to go home, she is due back at 6pm.

I took some of your advise. DH took DSD out for a game of football in the park to give me a chance to talk to DSD.

I explained to her that both DH and I loved her very much. I also told her mum also loved her very much. I said that maybe her mum missed her when she came to stay with us and maybe she was worried that DSD would prefer to live with us. I did not make any excuses over what her mum had said and did, just tried to point out that maybe her mum was just upset.
DSD responded with "i don't care, she is a bitch" I said I understood her anger because I was angry as well but also said that these feelings would change and I did not want her to regret anything she had said.

I told her that there would be no problem if she stayed with us but that was a decision to be made by a court as she was still very young to make such a huge and emotional decision. I also said that if she did come to live with us, she would also see her mum, that neither DH or I would agree to her not seeing her mum. She seemed ok but is still detemined not to go home.

We will need to see what happens tomorrow.

DH has emailed the ex saying DSD is still refusing to come home and we can deal with it tomorrow. So far, no response from her. DH has also updated the police with the current situation.

We have had a chat with DS but I'm not sure he fully understands, he thought someone was coming to take him away but we have reassured him that won't happen. DH was going to speak to him when they were playing.

Really not looking forward to tomorrow. DH, DSD and I are going down to the court first thing.

Thank you once again

Well done, I hope the evening and tomorrow go smoothly!

I think you're handling this well.

You can't manhandle a 12YO who is refusing to go somewhere and she does need to know that your home is her home too and that you welcome her being there when she wants to be.

Your DSD is lucky to have you and your DH. You are clearly very supportive and working hard to put her needs first and she clearly feels secure with you.

helping the dsd to find a reason why her mother is doing this is wrong in my opinion.

my parents/family have done all sorts of crap things to me and to try and work out why THEY made the CHOICES THEY DID is (a) pointless and (b) unlikely ever to be understood by me as they are never going to be choices I chose to make. they chose to do what they did, all I can do is choose to accept it or not.

if your dsd chooses not to accept it, that's good, and ultimately her right.

she called the woman you described in your op as a bitch.

i'd say she had that bang on right! what else wouldd you call someone who threatened the father of a child with abuse allegations (and I assumed she was implying sexual abuse) and that she'd stop at nothing to have his other child removed.

please listen to her andd support her, gently. by all means get her to look at this cognitively, but please don't dismiss what she has every right to think and express

i'd also suggest that this girl's homelife is a lot less 'normal' than her classmates.

what you're seeing now may be the tip of the iceberg.

please listen to her andd support her, gently.

I think that's exactly what the OP is doing. She has acknowledged to her DSD that she understands her anger and is feeling the same herself but she is also more experienced and knows that, once her anger subsides, her DSD may not feel the same and she is making sure that she know it is OK if that happens.

Her mother's actions were reprehensible but they still need to see each other and rebuild their relationship for the DSD's sake. If she sees more of this behaviour as she matures, she may decide to cut ties with her mother but now isn't the time to do that. At the moment she needs to be encouraged to spend time with both of her parents and it sounds like the OP is doing a good job of that.

I think you are right Hissy, as I said earlier I suspect DSD is well aware of what her mum thinks about her dad. She has already put together other lies her mum has told as to why she is not been seeing her dad and his family.

I think from DSD point of few for however many month/years she has been told continued lies by her mum and maybe this is just the straw that broke the camels back so to say and at the moment she has had enough. That's not to say in a months time she may change her mind again.

few VEIW even

.

I agree, but it's a terrifying thing to stand up for yourself against a parent, and doubly, triply hard when 'but she's your mother' inevitably gets banded about.

not saying that this is what the op is doing/saying, but society will. the DM will, without a doubt.

the dd resolve will weaken as the fear bites, as the dm starts to fight back, perhaps enlisting winged monkeys to ddrag her dd back

what must be supported is communication by and expression of the dd, to make sure she's making decisions based on needs/facts and not on fear/manipulation and terror tactics by someone who is deeply dysfunctional and harmful to be around.