Dsd private schooled: I find it embarassing

[Onthedoorstep]

Just that really.

My family are all teachers! In state schools. Private schooling was something I was brought up to think it inherently wrong.

Dsd goes to a well known private school. Dh and I struggle financially but this was part of his divorce agreement.

Dsd is a teenager and talks loudly about it a lot - what I did in Ancient Greek / hockey today / how amazing my school is.

I find it so Embarassing that it's making me want to avoid family events. I don't know how to handle it AT ALL.

Please talk some sense into me. This is becoming a massive issue for me.

because they've visited it? Spoken to a variety of parents, pupils and staff? Been on their website and looked at their prospectus even?

Or because of what they might have read/hear in the media or through hearsay? I've heard of plenty of public schools but I wouldn't claim to know anything about their ethos as I haven't visited them or know anyone who's been to them or indeed anything much beyond, I don't know, that Eton obviously has a very good drama department, given the number of recently successful actors there are who have been through their doors.

Equally I don't know anything about the ethos of the local comprehensives, for the same reasons - so I wouldn't claim to judge that either.

So a family of "educators" won't talk about education to DSD? they change the subject - to what, exactly? Soap operas/Keeping Up With The Kardashians/her favourite bands' plans to go on tour/things that actually interest her and about which she can talk informedly? Is she allowed to talk about her schoolfriends, or are they tainted by the perceived slur of attending private school and thus of the acceptable list of topics?
TBH it sounds as if your family is determined to make this girl feel she does not meet their standards and is unacceptable in their eyes and they go out of their way to make her feel awkward.
What would you do if your child went round to visit a friend and their parents looked down their noses at him/her for one reason and one reason only - because they went to a state school? Basically, that is prejudice. And your family sound like they are ganging up to make DSD feel unwelcome in their midst. Which is bullying. Why is her father allowing this to happen?

I did Latin and Greek at comprehensive school - I used to talk about it because I loved it! You don't sound like you like your DSD very much, tbh. It isn't her fault that she goes to a private school - presumably her parents are doing what they consider the best for their DD.

I think the barriers exist though - as a result of different choices.

What no one's asked, I think, is how the OP's partner feels about paying his daughter's school fees. Sometimes these things are done not because the non-resident parent wants them, but because the resident parent really really wants them and there is a need to get a financial settlement agreed as part of a divorce.

It may be that quite apart from the poster's parents, neither the poster or the partner really feels happy about private education - the cost of which will definitely impact on what they can and can't do - and in the meantime the child is babbling away innocently about her wonderful school.

And these different choices - and their relationship to income/politics etc really do affect relationships. I'm quite friendly with two women. Woman A I met a mother and baby group. She's very middle class - as I am - and has a high-earning executive husband. Woman B is a childminder who Woman A went to with her children, who also minded my daughter. She's from a less moneyed/professional/educated background - so one one level she is the one who's less like me.

Woman A's children are all attending an independent school. Woman B's children go to the same school as my daughter. And I now feel I've got much more in common with Woman B as a result.

Knowing how OP and her whole family feel about private education, would her DP dare to say anything positive about it?
It sounds as if it is not only resident parent, but DSD herself who are happy about the education she is receiving and maybe it is in the divorce settlement to ensure continuity in the face of a step-family who oppose private education?

Many people do chose to have different political/religious etc views from their parents and it doesn't need to necessarily impact on the relationship in a negative way unless one party is unnecessarily unreasonable about exercising freedom of choice.

I think most divorced fathers want their children to be happy and also to continue to have a positive caring relationship with these children.

On the step-parenting threads quite a common issue is that a father will so much want to have this positive relationships that they become a 'Disney Dad' and don't ask their children to respect sensible boundaries.

Which could mean that a child who might be going on and on about the super house hockey tournament - in front of people who taught at a school/attended a school whose playing own fields had long ago been sold off - might not be encouraged to stop and/or change the subject

Anyways the likelihood is that such a father would be glad his daughter is enjoying school, even if he and his ex may not have been at completely at one re educational choices

Of course it is theoretically possible that a one good decent caring man has been abducted by a wicked socialist woman and then brainwashed by her evil leftie relatives, so that he hardly dares say anything any more

We just don't know.

I think perhaps you and your family should let go of your prejudices and inverted snobbery and leave the poor girl alone!

If you try and make her stay quiet about her school, you'll be transmitting your embarrassment to her - and what the hell has she got to be embarrassed about?! So long as she's not actively boasting about it, in which case you can ask her not to boast, or trying to make out that she's in any way superior, in which case you can tell her that it's not polite to do that, then I don't see that she's doing anything wrong in talking about her life to your family.

I'm quite shocked that you can't deal with this in a more mature fashion, quite frankly - and the same for the rest of your family. Awkwardness my arse - why don't they just ask her questions about other aspects of her life, even other subjects at school that she does that are also in the National Curriculum?

Are you really serious that DSD should not talk about hockey (a team game, exercise, fresh air etc - loads of positive things about it, loads clubs, youth programmes etc and one of the sports GB is rather good at) on the off-chance that the adults in the room might have attended a school which has no sporting facilities or who teach at a school where the pupils have no access to multi-purpose, all-weather sports facilities?

Do you actually know any teens who have such highly developed sensibilities combined with socio-political awareness? that kind of attitude is akin to trying to make her ashamed of her school and the fact she attends it and is very cruel and demeaning.

IMO the likelihood is both parents choose DSDs school back when they were still a couple. The financial situation is different now and I can understand why OP resents that her DH has to pay school fees, but she and her family should at least try to hide their resentment and talk to this child about the things that interest her. She's a kid who is actually trying to have conversations with her "new" family by marriage and doesn't deserve to be treated with such contempt. these family gatherings must be very hard for her.

I think from quite early on in primary school children become aware of social and economic difference. Some children will have newer uniform. Some have secondohand. They'll go to each others houses. Some are bigger and/or more expensive holidays. If they are privately educated children know it is because somebody is paying. Even if parents are making considerable sacrifices to pay, most kids with any kind of intelligence will know that other equally good caring hardworking and parents would not be able to afford or their daughter/s and/or sons to attend the same school.

So in the same way that a child would be aware that to go on and on about their brand new iPhone or the clothes they bought from an upmarket boutique in front of a schoolmate from a much poorer home, a well-mannered child might well realise that some of the aspects of their school life are to be talked only with their classmates and their classmates' immediate family. Other aspects of school life are more suited to be talked about anywhere and everywhere.

This doesn't mean that the onus is all on the child. Of course there's even more responsibility on adults to show good manners and create a pleasant atmosphere.

Have you never heard of scholarships?
Or of parents deliberately forgoing holidays/new cars etc? Please stop generalising because the other side of the coin is that some children who go to private schools are targeted by other children who do not, who bully them simply because they go to a private school.
I'm sorry, but a kid with the latest IPhone is the talk of the class - wherever that class might be. Suppose they'd saved up all their birthday/Xmas/chore money - why shouldn't they talk about it? Using your examples, all those kids wearing Super Dry/Hollister/Converse should leave them in the house in case they make other children feel bad.

Glad you agre OPs family should start behaving responsibly and making this child feel welcome. Where she goes to school is irrelevant - they are very sad if they cannot a) look past that and b) listen to her and discover why she enjoys school so much because they might just learn something they could put into practice at their own schools. A closed mind is not a desirable thing in a teacher, after all.

It boils down to prejudice OP.

Private schooling was something I was brought up to think it inherently wrong.

Surely, as an adult, you can now make an informed decision. How can anything legal be 'inherently wrong'? That is just nonsense.

You are prejudiced against your own partner's child. Think about it and change your ways. Stop blaming your family for your own decisions.

My experience of growing up in a leftie family (one of my parents a teacher) is that some of those on the left who are apparently deeply "principled" are actually terribly lacking in kindness.

My own parents find it vastly easier to care about strangers on the other side of the world who they perceive as under-privileged (and who will never challenge their perception of themselves as good, fair people) than they do about some of those in their own family.

They love to judge and mock other people for being inadequate, unjust, wrong.... But they don't like anyone shining a light on their own failings.

I think this is fairly common in ideologically driven families. I have heard of many similar examples, including someone I know whose father was imprisoned under Franco in Spain, for opposing the dictatorship. He was the great fighter for social justice to his loyal supporters, but he was an absolute shit to his family.

Like I say, kindness to the real people who are part of your life and right there in front of you, rather than fighting for the rights of the abstract masses, is not valued nearly highly enough in some quarters of the left. IMO.

OP, the fact you don't seem very secure in your parents' unconditional love for you - the fact you evidently fear their judgement and disapproval so much, over something that it is not even in your power to change - would suggest to me that perhaps you didn't get quite enough kindness yourself when you were growing up. And I don't detect much kindness from you towards your DSD either. Do you actually love her? - genuine question.

I have read this thread with disbelief.

I agree with the vast majority of posters - it is none of your business OP. As to MSolang - she might resent the monies spent on this "dastardly" education - when she and her DP could do other things with the monies.

Sorry -tough. It is DHs money and his responsibility to his child and whatever is left over is for you both to do what you like with. You knew he had kids when you got together.

My neighbours work like dogs to send their child to local private school, after severe bullying in local state school. Holidays are non existent, second hand etc - but the change in the child has been unbelievable and to them worth the effort. They are not rich.

OP you need to grow up and demonstrate some maturity.

Your poor DSD -she likes school and you denigrate her education.Truly pathetic attitude from an adult.

Well done step parenting forum!

Marianne, except the DSD is among her family members (or so she's been lead to believe by her father and step mother). It is suppose to be a loving environment, not a bunch of judgey adults with a chip on their shoulder making a child feel awkward for talking about her school.

There are a few things going on here, and they are being terribly conflated.

Does the OP have a ‘right’ to feel embarrassed by a situation she finds personally distasteful and politically offensive? Of course she does. People have wildly varying sentiments about private schooling, and this would be an inflammatory topic no matter where it came up on MN – but for people who are against private school, this can be comparable to, say, having a stepchild who is an active member of UKIP. Point 1 – the OP doesn’t have to justify her feelings on the topic. She has views and beliefs and is permitted to hold those and yes, to disapprove of others’ views and beliefs, as we all do.

What can she do about that disapproval? This seems to me a much more valid question, and all the debate about the rights and wrongs of private schooling is really completely irrelevant. Of course she should be kind. But she doesn’t have to be a puppet.

Is she allowed to openly challenge her DSD’s comments about school? I think that she is, actually, given the age of the child, and with the proviso that this needs to be done in a thoughtful and considered manner. If a teen wishes to engage in adult conversation, and learn how to conduct adult conversations, she needs to accept along with that the idea that her ideas can be challenged. My own DSD is arriving very late at this realisation. When she was a pre-teen and young teen, she was encouraged to take part in adult conversations, but this was a very one-sided thing, as the adult response was limited to noises of encouragement and ideas were seldom challenged. Even when she expressed, as kids will do, rather flawed thinking about issues of race or even made factual errors, these were overlooked. I’ve lately decided that I will no longer take this tactic, but will treat her more as I would any other person with whom I was having a conversation. If I hear a snobbish, classist or ill-informed comment from another family member or close friend, I am likely to question it, if in a mild and carefully phrased way – why then would I not do so with the children who I am a co-parent to?

My DSC attend(ed) a secondary school with a very homogenous population of white, upper-middle-class, children. To give you an idea, the popular school trip is a skiing holiday abroad with a 4-figure price tag. The kids regularly came home with rather bizarre (and completely counter to our own circumstances) ideas about how normal people live. After a discussion about changing our broadband services in which I was told that “only homeless people don’t have high-speed internet”, I was in a bit of despair, frankly. Other nuggets which have come up – informed directly by something that was said at school - include the idea that gay people are now privileged in society, that racism is over because America has a black president, and that unions are “against God”. Oh, and that we should – seriously - move house because our street was not posh enough. If the kids are old enough to feel they are informed enough on these topics to have adult discussions about them, then by god, let’s have an adult discussion. Not pat them on the head because their self-esteem might suffer from having stupid ideas challenged.

How can anything legal be 'inherently wrong'? That is just nonsense.
Right...so everything legal is morally right? Something can't be both legal and very very wrong? That's...an interesting claim. (But let's keep that in mind when the "were you the OW?" question next pops up, shall we?)

Sorry -tough. It is DHs money and his responsibility to his child and whatever is left over is for you both to do what you like with. You knew he had kids when you got together.
This, of course, is just total and utter poppycock. The DH has equal responsibility to all the members of his family. The OP and her family are not to be content with the “left overs”. What a repulsive attitude. You’d have children raised on “whatever is left over”. When people come out with utter shit like this, I really wonder how they look at themselves in the mirror.

In fact, as in every family, if circumstances change, cloth gets cut anew.

Just as sensible, by the way, to say “You knew he might leave you and have other children when you got together.”

and, duh, of course it's OP's business.

OP is right to be embarrassed - at her prejudiced family who don't seem at all welcoming to DSD.

Sigh.
It's not prejudice to feel that some actions (like supporting private education) are immoral.

How the OP chooses to deal with a clash of value systems within her family is the issue.

She can feel however she likes about it. It is not "right" or "wrong" to feel embarrassed. Some of us might understand why she has the feeling, others of us might not. Constructive advice on dealing with a clash of values is always helpful.

It is prejudiced to judge a teen who attends the school chosen by her parents on that fact and not to allow her to talk about anything to do with school because they have different principles. If people who believed in private education treated a child from a wealthy family who went to a state school in a similar fashion it would be equally unpleasant and prejudiced.

The OP is judging the decision, not the child, in the first instance. I believe that segregated schools are bad and would judge them to be a bad choice, and would be unhappy and uncomfortable with a family member going there. Is that prejudice? I suppose it is - prejudice against a racist form of schooling.

On a related but different point, OP is judging the child teenager for her comments and showing off about the school. That's fair enough. We all judge people based on their behaviour. Teenagers sometimes demonstrate bad behaviours. The OP is quite within reason to judge a teen on bad behaviour and to ask for help in addressing it in a sensitive manner, which is exactly what she has done.

If people who believed in private education treated a child from a wealthy family who went to a state school in a similar fashion it would be equally unpleasant and prejudiced.
And if a teenager attending a state school turned up at an event hosted by a family of bankers and began spouting off about how all bankers were capitalist pigs who ought to be imprisoned, the family of the teenager would, I shoudl think, feel embarrassed. Exactly like the OP.

Something can't be both legal and very very wrong? That's...an interesting claim

It's your claim, brdgrl, not mine. Your words, not mine.

Your words: How can anything legal be 'inherently wrong'? That is just nonsense.
Have you changed your mind? Are you now saying that in fact something legal can be inherently wrong?
You seem very confused.

I very much relate to the stepmothering situation which brdgrl relates. My stepchildren attended a C of E primary school in one of the most diverse cities in Birmingham, but at least 99% of the children who attended this school were white.. The ward which the school was in contains major areas of deprivation. However the school's small catchment area was one of great affluence. House prices from about £400,000 upwards at today's prices. (We're not talking about the Home Counties here.) So yes, it was au pairs, skiing holidays, two cars - one a 4 by 4/people carrier, the other one a nice little Renault that was perhaps a couple of years old.

Spouse and I opted to buy a house very near this area so it was easier to see the children. We opted to buy a house with enough bedrooms, so that the stepchildren could each have their own room. And as a result of that we were absolutely skint. At the time I was driving a much-loved but elderly Citroen 2 CV. When Spouse was at work or when he was busy ferrying my stepdaughter about somewhere, I would give my stepson lifts to parties, his friends houses etc in the 2CV.

And he went on and on each time I did so -he'd have been 9 or 10 - about my 'funny' car. (It may well be that his friends had commented about this 'funny' car.) After a while I would point out blandly that if he didn't want a lift he needn't have one. He could remain at home. I would point out that we weren't in position to buy an expensive second car - and while this car worked I didn't want another car in any case.. He carried on about the funny car. His comments increased, if anything. He would say that he would have to crouch down when passing his friend's houses so that there was no risk of him being seen in the terrible car. I'd say this was not amusing. I'd ask him to stop. He took no notice. It ended with one drive when he started on this topi again and I completely lost my temper, shouting at him and saying I'd absolutly had enough of his behaviour.

And to his credit he suddenly got the point. He didn't complain to his father - who would have backed me totally. He didn't complain to his mother - who wouldn't have backed me, but (my stepson knew) would have reacted by trying to stop contact, which my stepson didn't want. We actually got on quite well, but it bothered him somewhere that I wasn't quite like the mothers he knew. Perhaps he thought that if he nagged me enough I'd become more like those mothers.

Discussion is undoubtedly a good thing. If gentle reasoning doesn't work there can be occasions for very plain speaking - or in my case shouting.

We actually got on quite well, but it bothered him somewhere that I wasn't quite like the mothers he knew. Perhaps he thought that if he nagged me enough I'd become more like those mothers.
Ah yes. I get that - DSS is bothered that we aren't like other mums and dads. On the one hand, he benefits from that, and he knows it - he has the 'cool' dad - but on the other hand, it is different and weird, and deeply embarrassing.