DP and babysitting - are we being unreasonable?

[FlyingBlind]

A bit of context for you. About six weeks ago BM said she wanted to stop evening visits with us (6.00 until 8.00 one night in the week), and have DP go to hers to see the kids (DSD's 9, 3, 12m) while she goes out. She says having the kids here for an evening is too disruptive as she struggles to get the into bed early enough.

After trying it out for a while we want to go back to having the kids, the reasons being:

1. DP babysitting there blurs the boundaries between what's acceptable behaviour with Mum and what's ok with Dad (we are much hotter on table manners etc)
2. BM takes the opportunity to undermine DP's parenting in front of the girls
3. The place is a tip and DP can't find anything. Formula, PJ's, nappies, wipes are always disappeared somewhere...
4. BM is always later than planned coming back and as DP goes there straight from work he hasn't been getting anything to eat until 8.30 - 9.00 pm
5. I draw the line at going with him to BM's house to sit the kids as I feel very uncomfortable there, so I've only seen the DSD's EOW for the last couple of months

We've always said that we would rather have the kids here, they can stay overnight and we'll get them all to where they need to go the following morning so BM can have a proper night off, but she won't have it.

Is DP unreasonable to say he won't sit over there any more?

Does anyone else have an arrangement like this?

We tried a midweek overnight. Exp was to collect at 6pm and drop to school the next day. He wanted to give them dinner. However it ended up with exp not getting here til half 6 or 7. He always said it was bad traffic but im not sure. Anyway it meant dcs not eating til 7.30 or 8 and not getting to bed til 9 at the earliest. At 7 and 3 this was just disastrous for their concentration in school and they were hard to wake in the mornings so exp was often late getting them to school. The days they were on time he didnt take them to school, he had his girlfriend drop them at my house at 8.30 on her way to work. It ended up being a lot more hassle for everyone (especially dcs) for just an hour of contact on a tuesday evening.

BM means either bio mum or birth mum, both fine in the context of adoption.

As far as step families go, you have step Mum/SM and Mum/DM/M.

Calling SKs Mother BM is insulting in this context. It implies that that is all she is.

I really feel sorry for these children, what a horrible way for them to grow up. Your boyfriend needs to grow up and be a parent, he is not a babysitter.

There is no need to clarify who 'mum' is. Everyone know when you say mum that you mean the children's mother. There is no one to confuse that with. No need for 'birthmum'

Totally agree Amber.
If anyone referred to me as my children's 'birth mum' I would hate it.
I am their one and only Mum.

My dad used to hate being called our 'real dad' when differentiating from our stepdad. He used to say there is no need to explain it - dad is dad and now I feel the same way about being Mum to my kids.

Kaluki, you sound like a lovely step mum. Wish one of mine had been like you.

He's not babysitting.

I would absolutely feel the same as their mum that being out that late on a weeknight is way too late for children that age, especially on a regular basis.

I'd suggest moving it to picking them up from whatever their school/childcare arrangements are and having them over for tea or whatever, then dropping them back in plenty of time for bath and bed, or alternatively going to visit them there as your partner has been doing.

Thanks Lunar - that's nice to hear.
I had a hideous SM as a kid so just try to be the opposite of her!!!

I don't think that the OP has had an unfair bashing. In my opinion she has had a very fair response to her OP.

BM? I assume this means birth mother. In what context is the mother of these children a birth mother? Has she given them up for adoption? No she hasn't. She is their mother or mum. If my ex-husband's partner called me my son's birth mother I wouldn't be very happy.

So she left her husband whilst she was pregnant. And? What has that got to do with you OP? Presumably there were problems in the marriage that caused them to split up. The reasons for them splitting up are precisely none of your business.

Her house is a mess? Why is this any of your concern? As long as the children are loved, fed and happy what does it matter?

Get your DP to take a sandwich with him. It won't kill him for one night.

And by the way he is not babysitting. He is seeing his children. As for their parenting styles, these would be different even if they lived in the same house. My ex husband is so laid back he is almost horizontal, whereas I am stricter. This would still be the case if we were still married to each other. The bottom line is he is a bloody good dad, I don't care what the inside of his house looks like.

And finally, the children are having a relationship with their dad. They aren't having contact to spend time with you. Think about them and not yourself.

I have been with my partner for five years. He has a lovely daughter with his ex. I don't get involved in their relationship as parents. I have a son with my ex-husband, I don't get involved in my son's relationship with his dad and his gf. This makes for a amicable arrangement for all of us.

If he's not babysitting then he's free to take his children to his own home isn't he?

If he's being told that his home is not their home, and required to look after them in 'their home' then that's babysitting.

He is their parent - he is parenting them regardless of where he is.

I would agree that if it is the mother that is requesting contact at her house, on the basis that she wants to go out, then of course the DP in this case should be able to have the children overnight at his house instead.

If however the DP in this case just wants to see the children mid week and the mother is going out to facilitate this, then he is not babysitting. He is seeing his children at their mother's house.

I assume that the mother in this case thinks that 8pm is too late for three young children to be brought back home after a two hour visit with their dad and therefore has said he can see them at her house instead to make bedtime easier etc.

If the dad wants to see the children more often wouldn't it be better to have them on a Friday night or Saturday night on the weekends that he doesn't see them at all? At least the eldest child wouldn't have school the next day and the sleep issue wouldn't be as important.

That's rubbish purple. He's not babysitting because they are his kids. Babysitting is when some OTHER person looks after your kids because yi want to go out, or can't look after them for some reason. he is having 'contact' with them, and the Mum is going out because of this.
The fact that they are his kids does not mean that his convenience trumps their best interests. At their ages, in these circs the mid week contact will be best in their own home. He has them at his home at weekends.

Neither solution is any good. The only reasonable solution is for you to have the children to stay overnight with you.

He isnt being required to look after them. Their mother isnt saying he has to come so she can go out. He's having contact with his children. Its what parents do.

Why not just go with what she wants, it doesn't sounds like a major deal for one mid week night especially as they get to stay with you some weekends. I would say that staying over midweek is quite disruptive on the children as they have to get to school etc. the next day and may end up forgetting important things. If they are at home everything is there ready for them. It is also nice for them to see their father alone sometimes.

How I read it is mum is going out to facilitate contact, not because she needs to.

If the Dad had them overnight on the school night, he would presumably have to get them to school, organise homework, packed lunches, remember various items to be brought in the following day. I wonder if he is prepared for that. Does his working day allow for school drop off? Or for getting them home in time for Mum to do it?

That was how I read it too. I didn't think that the OP was saying that the mother was going out and asking her ex to "baby sit" (hate that expression when it's used for looking after your own children). I read it that the mother was going out in order for the ex to see his children for a couple of hours. For the sake of a couple of hours I just think that the children would be better off in their main home, purely because of bedtime to be honest.

As I said before maybe it's the mid week night that is causing the issue here. If the midweek contact was moved to a weekend (for one overnight stay) then the DP in this case would see his children every weekend rather than EOW.

At a guess I would say the early nights is probably CSA linked as maintenance is based on the number of overnight the nrp has with the kids.

My OH used to go and have his kids at ex wife's house and it was fine in huge beginning but he is not their babysitter, he is their dad and it confuses the kids in the long run

X

Willyou - my ex used to have our son overnight on a Wednesday. Depending on what shift he was on he either used to take our son to school (I packed a bag for him with everything he would need) or he would drop him back with me at 7am the following morning. Our DS decided to stop the overnights during the week because he found it disruptive (not his words obviously!).

Anyway he still sees his dad on a Wednesday. Dad picks him up from school, gives him his tea etc and drops him with me at 7.00pm. That gives DS an hour or so to have a bath and a bit of time with me before he goes to bed.

Having said all of this my DS is nine, my ex lives 200 yards from us and I haven't got any other children's sleep patterns to consider.

miserable I think you're right about the CSA element. This was partly the problem my DH had. The ex insisted that any minor reduction, even a couple of hours, in contact time at any point, would be 'made up' by an extra maintenance payment (although oddly enough she never suggested the reverse apply if we had DSS more than scheduled ......). So even when it turned out that the midweek overnight stay caused chaos for everyone, particularly DSS, she still insisted upon it. The difference it would have made to her payments would have been negligible, but she still wanted to make the point.

Petal your last post doesnt make sense. If your dh's ex insisted on reduced contact with dss meant increased maintenance for her then why would she insist on midweek contact happening despite it causing chaos for everyone? Surely she would have preferred the contact not to happen and get the money instead if that was her motivator as you state.

Sorry, maybe I didn't phrase it very well. She always used to threaten DH with the CSA, even if he was 30 mins late with a pick-up due to work. This used to alarm DH, but when I looked into it, even if there had been to a recalculation if we'd stopped the midweek night, the difference would have been tiny.

No thats not what i was talking about. I was saying that it doesnt make sense that someone who was so graspy for the maintenance that they would expect it increased for lateness or missed contact for them to be so insistent on a midweek contact that caused chaos. It doesnt go with the idea that she just did it for the money because then she wouldnt be very bright at all to not have worked out that him staying midweek meant less money for her.