Making Arrangements In The Other Parents Contact Time

[SnowWhiteWinter]

Hi everyone, I have another thread too but have some other issues that I'd like to pose to mumsnetters. Everyone gave very honest advice (even if it was a little harsh at times) on my other thread (which I will update as soon as we have an update) and I (and my DP) would very much appreciate some honest opinions here too, and ideas of what to do etc.

My DSD (3) is starting a new preschool in January. She has been on the waiting list for over a year and was finally offered a place in October. It's so much better in every way than her current one, which has just had a "satisfactory" Ofsted report, and this one is "outstanding" - not that Ofsted reports are everything but it just adds to the list of reasons why the new one is better. It's bigger, more activities, better facilities, nicer location etc.

DSD's mum doesn't want her to change preschool but decided to leave it until 2 weeks ago to email DP to tell him. She likes the old one and wants her to stay there. We now have a very awkward situation as she is already enrolled in the new one and deposit is paid. For those of you who have not read my other thread, DSD's mum has only been having her and my other DSD on a 50/50 basis for the last 6/7 months. Before that, she was only seeing them about 1 night per week for around 2 years. During this time things like pre schools and schools were considered, visited, chosen and applied for - she wasn't interested in what choices were made, didn't want to visit any etc, so my DP and I did this, until 6 mths ago she had never been to see DSD's preschool. There is no residency order in place, no court involvement so far, which sort of makes things harder as when DSD's parents can't agree I guess it's a bit of a stalemate!

She hasn't actually given any particular reason for wanting to stop the move just "I like the current one". DP has asked her to visit the new one so she can see how great it is, she won't, she also doesn't want the prospectus we picked up for her, she just will not discuss it. DSD knows she is going to the new pre school after Xmas, she has been and visited with us a couple of times already too.

So my 1st question is What do we do? Cancel the new better preschool because her mum doesn't want her going there, even though she has been waiting for a space for so long, knows that's where she is going and we have paid deposit and we believe it's much better (hence the long waiting list).

My 2nd question is a little bit last minute. Next week, during the DSD's time with their mother, the new pre school is having their "induction" session for all new January starters. The children meet the staff and key workers and all the other new starters, parents have coffee and introduce themselves etc. This is only done once and unfortunately falls on a day when DSD's are with their mum. DP has written to her about 5 weeks ago and explained this all and proposed we take DSD to it (it's only 2 hrs). DSD's mum is at work that particular day, so DSD will be at pre school all day that day anyway so we would pick her up, take her for two hours and drop her back to preschool. DSD's mum has said no, DP cannot take her out of preschool for 2 hours as it is her week with the children.

Now as there is no court order in place DP knows he can very easily just go and get DSD and take her and return her but he is torn as to what to do. He has never once planned something during their time with their mum or asked to take them to anything during that time- and as she is working it doesn't make a difference to her anyway as DSD will be at pre school. He has asked their mum if she could get the time off work to take her instead of us, or we all go together, but she has ignored this possible idea. So what do you guys think? It is for DSD's pre school education but it's certainly not compulsory, it would just be very nice for her and I would think helpful for DSD to go. DP doesn't want to cause problems or act unreasonably during their mums contact time, but equally we know she is saying no because she doesn't want her to start at the new preschool at all (she may have other reasons but she hasn't mentioned any).

All advice greatly received, some of you have so much experience as step parents and of step family situations perhaps someone has been in a similar situation? Part of me just wants to say to DP, forget it, let her mum make the decisions just to keep the peace.

Sorry I meant even if it is 2 with PR against 1 with PR - if that makes sense.

It is not vitally necessary for me to have PR but I do, and it does help. Both parents agreed without being held at knife point, so there is no problem.

Yes Pingu, of course it makes me feel that perhaps their mum is sometimes trying but not quite making it. That sound really awful for you :(

snow you're moaning about having to do this drive twice over Xmas, imagine what it's like for her having to drive up to where you live EVERY day TWICE a day to take kids/pick them up from preschool/school!
But of course she's a terrible mum who is always late for no reason and can't be bothered with them.
I'm not surprised she wants you to take them to her, she's quite clearly fed up of having to do all that driving so figured since you and DP are off work you can do some of the driving for once, and you know what, I don't blame her!
I really do feel sorry for this woman

Snow the way you feel about her, and her parenting, or her apparent disinterest is really affecting you. It's clear from your posts that you do feel superior to her, you are clearly a very 'hands on' mum and extend that care to your DSDs. But, if any of us posting here have learned anything at all, it's that you cannot expect people to live by your own personal standards alone, and if you go through life judging the ex here, and her 'disinterest' with complete focus on the negative all the time, you will never get to a point where your DSDs will not feel the tension, or pressure being put upon them by the situation they are caught up in. My ex shows no interest at all in schooling, DD's friends, what's she's up to or anything along those lines. I used to really resent him for not being as interested or committed to DD as I was, and felt personally offended by his disinterest in our DD. But, when he did see her, and spend time with her, she wouldn't shut up about it when she got home. He isn't the best parent but the relationship DD has with him is worth all the hard work I have to put in to make that happen. It shouldn't come down to me to do all the hard work for that to happen but it does, because otherwise DD wouldn't see him and spend the time with him that she does. And she loves it.

Even if your DSDs don't come back from their mum's chatting happily about their time with her, they'll still be getting something from that time that is precious for them. You need to be happy about that because that relationship for your DSDs is important. Why would you not be happy that your DSD get to spend so much time with their mum? If the ex spending the time she has with her own children affects you so much, then you won't be the fabulous mum you want to be to your own kids, because it will impact you more than you realise. Both you and your DP need to get past the anger and resentment, the bitterness and the judgemental attitude you have about the ex here, and just stop antagonising this situation with the way you deal with the ex. I honestly picture you with a cat's bum face when you are talking about the ex here, as you have a real problem with her. And that isn't doing anyone any good as it just stops you from disengaging and adopting a much less stressful outlook on things. Seriously, try and just not react to the ex, think happy thoughts about your DSD having a better relationship with their mum than they have had, and start to enjoy the time you have to concentrate on your own kids when they are gone. Because they need you focussed on their needs and happiness when they are with you, and not 'sad' because your DSDs aren't there.

The ONLY reason she has to drive to us is because she was having very little contact with her DD's at all until 6 mths ago - her choice. That's why DSD2 is in pre school near us, because she didn't care and never had her on weekdays at all, had she had weekday contact with her then DSD2 would probably be in preschool near DSD1's primary to make it a fair easy journey for both us and her mum. When she had then 1 day a week we used to do most of the driving then too.

What should we do? She's shown some interest for 6 months - shall we move next door to her so she doesn't have to drive anywhere? Uproot my Dc and take them away from their primary school, friends and their Dad? Sh has no other children neither does her DP - she could always move here, she won't though.

I'd drive to the other side of the county and back to see my DC or my DSD's on Christmas day, not state I have "family" round - WTF are the DSD's?

Bunchy you are right! :)

So if you can truly see my point, why can't you try to support this mother? If you love those kids....do the right thing
Yes I know you say you have supported her- but be honest, you haven't. Going after PR of those kids, the whole school mess meaning she has to do two hours driving a day and then make dd late for school, the trying to switch dd's nursery, the trying to force her hand with the mid week stays, the hounding her for maintenance even though you get CB, the fact that you are down as the emergency contact over the mother, the fact that you will only do the Xmas driving because you want the kids with you rather than their mother. It all stinks.....come on...part of you must know deep down that this would DESTROY you if you were on the receiving end?

snow at my dr's there is a sign up in reception saying that if someone without PR is taking a child for a vaccination then they require a letter from a parent giving their consent. That's all that is required, just a note, not a legal document.
Again, my DP has been around since DS was a baby but we have never found it necessary for him to have PR, but that's probably because he doesn't try to be his Dad.
I really think you need to back off and gain perspective and come to terms with the fact that you are not their mum

Your DP has lied to you snow; why would he do that about something so important if he was as committed to you and your DC as you are to him and his?

As you have PR, my advice would be to decide, on your own, what is best for your DSD's, and action it unilaterally without involving either of their parents. Neither of them have their DDs best interests as a priority in their life.

Your DP has misled you. It is very unusual for step-parents to be awarded PR - and from your posts, it is obvious that you don't appreciate the significance of the responsibility he has placed on you.

I don't understand his reasons for doing it - but the fact that he has lied to you about something so important in his DDs lives is evidence enough that he has his own agenda - one that you don't know about or understand.

You are equal to the girls parents in law - use that to protect them from their own parents who are manipulating you and abusing their DDs for goodness only knows what reason.

Your DP has lied to you snow; why would he do that about something so important if he was as committed to you and your DC as you are to him and his?

I've taken my DSD for vaccinations and doctor's appointments in the past. Actually I took her to the dentist yesterday. I haven't got PR and I've never needed it.

I don't know any step-parents with PR bar one, and she took on the role of Step-Mum after the childrens' Mum passed away. In your case the children's Mum has not passed away - she parents them equally to your DH now and there is as far as I can see, no reason whatsoever for you to retain PR.

As far as emergency contacts go... At my DSD's school (and pre-school before that) my DH and Mum were down jointly as 'first priority emergency contacts' - the school had to phone both of them in an emergency / if DSD was ill. Myself and DSD's maternal gran were down jointly as 'second priority'. The agreement was made when DH and his ex were not getting on very well but it still stands although the reality is, everyone's getting on much better now and in the event, we all phone each other to see who can get there the quickest / leave work the easiest.

You haven't answered the question, what do the girls call you? Do they call you Mum?

As far as the Boxing Day pick up goes I just wouldn't go and pick up the girls. If Mum has plans Boxing Day, leave the girls with her and let her drop them home on the 27th. Actually reading that made me smile; there was tension over who did the Boxing Day pick up between my DH and his ex for years - let's face it none of us want to spend Boxing Day in the car, kids included, most of us have family over and want to relax. It was decided that the handover should be on the 27th instead and guess what? Nobody's got a problem with that! DSD spends from the last day of term to the 27th with one parent and the 27th to the first day of term with the other. She reverses each year. They have another agreement that the person whose house she's going to does the pick up; this year she's with her Mum for Xmas and my DH for NY so Mum will pick her up from school on the last day of term to go to her house, DH will pick her up on the 27th to come here and then DH takes her back to school in Jan and term-time contact resumes. Simples!

I also think the reason this hasn't gone to court is because your DP is well aware that Cafcass / the courts would take a very dim view of what's been happening in your 'blended family'. I think there would be a HUGE amount of sympathy for Mum (as there has been on here) and now 50/50 contact is the girls' 'status quo' - it would be much easier for the balance to tip in Mum's favour.

The PR thing in a nonsense Snow

You are either explaining it very badly or the solicitor / DP have lied to you for you to think you have PR.

A Parental Responsibility Agreement (where you dont have to go to court) can only be for a father or a married stepparent - you are neither of those are you?

A Parental Responsibility Order can be made by court but again you have to be legally connected to the child, step parent (legal defination marriage), grandparent etc.

The only way a non-married step parent can get PR is by a residence order

Yes I think either snow is lying or her DP has lied to her, perhaps just to keep her quiet happy

Is simple

• Snow is either marrier to her DP and has done a PR agreement

• Snow and her DP have a residence or shared residence order naming both them and the mother

• Snow and her DP have adopted the children (in which case the mother does not have PR)

• Snows DP has lied to her telling her she has PR when she does not

• Snows DP has told her that he can delegate his day to day decision making PR to her, when the children are in his care, and snow has misunderstood to assume she has full PR - this is true, but is not the same as "proper" PR

There is no legal way for Snow to have PR in the circumstances she has described on here.

In that case Snow declaring herself as a 'person with PR' on school applications and such is fraudulent....right?

Or the other possibility is that she is just full of shit? Sorry but too many things just don't add up here.
I'd love to hear the DSD's mums version of events!

In fact this is all reminding me of a film I saw once...The Hand That Rocked the Cradle!

I have thought that a number of things don't add up from the very start of the last thread. There are countless contradictions and it just doesn't feel right.

Or maybe you are all reading more into this than you should, simply because the OP is the Step, rather than the Mother...

Would you question the Mother in such detail?

The way you are badgering the OP here makes very uncomfortable reading.

I'm a step-mother and am definitely not usually suspicious of SM on here at all.

The OP has actually been given a lot of very good advice on here about how to improve the quality of her DSCs lives and also how to avoid future hurt herself

Xmas we're all Stepmums too!

The OP has appealed to SM for advice based on experience - and that's what we're giving!

Many of us have found ourselves unwittingly used as pawns in a game of one-upmanship between our DPs and their ex's; and that is the experience we are sharing with the OP - suggesting she questions things her DP assures her of when it clearly doesn't add up.

Sorry but when she states things which you know aren't correct eg. Saying she's got PR when legally she can't, then of course it raises suspicions.

The way she speaks about these girls and seems to have such a low opinion of their own mother makes very uncomfortable reading to me. As a mother and a step mother it just doesn't sit right with me.

The thought of the OP removing her step-child from nursery against the mother's express wishes, likely to cause stress for a 3 year old, made me doubt the sincerity of the OP's intentions for the "best" for them.

Also the lack of mention of her own children unless questioned - her children who go to the (handilly nearby to her) local school which is an hour away from the mother. All the while claiming to be so supportive of 50:50 care.

Also the constant repetition of how well placed she is to care for the children relative to their mother because she is so conveniently a SAHM. So patronising and derogatory.

And the awful attitude towards the mother, who the OP apparently actively encourages, yet then goes on to admit she never speaks to her.

Also the moving in with her DP while the youngest child is only a baby.

Etc, etc.

I know that NADM, and usually I find you give great advice to SMs that are suffering (as you did with me ), but this thread has made very uncomfortable reading. You are digging, digging, digging at everything the OP is posting, as if you are looking to trip her up.

I don't believe the same advice and nitpicking would take place if it was the mother posting.

Things like:

The thought of the OP removing her step-child from nursery against the mother's express wishes, likely to cause stress for a 3 year old, made me doubt the sincerity of the OP's intentions for the "best" for them

That will be the nursery that the Mother had no input to because as the time she couldn't be bothered to see her child. That will be the nursery that was 'good' when the child was first enroled, but has deteriorated drastically since. That will be the nursery that is on 10 minutes walk from the 'new' nursery. That will be the nursery that the child has been told about, and was looking forward to visiting until the Mother slagged it off.

and this:

Also the lack of mention of her own children unless questioned - her children who go to the (handilly nearby to her) local school which is an hour away from the mother. All the while claiming to be so supportive of 50:50 care

Oh, the 'own' children that have nothing to do with the questions the OP has asked. The local school that the step child was enroled into when the Mother couldn't be bothered with her child. The local school that the OP has already said numerous times is a second choice, and that she is going to try to get the younger child into the same school as her sister.

and:

Also the moving in with her DP while the youngest child is only a baby

What the fuck has that got to do with the price of fish? The DP was essentially a single parent with 2 children. Who he introduces to his children, who he brings into his children's lives, and when, is his business, no-one elses. The Mother has the same entitlement.

Look, it matters little to me, I can hide threads that I feel are nasty, and will, but I do wish you would all try to see the OPs POV as well, and you really don't sound as if you want to.

Like I said, it makes for uncomfortable reading.

I don't think it sounds like the DP was ever a single parent tbh

The OP doesn't just sound like she has a POV, she sounds way too actively involved in driving the decision making relating to her DSCs. That's very different to the entitlement to an opinion.