Making Arrangements In The Other Parents Contact Time

[SnowWhiteWinter]

Hi everyone, I have another thread too but have some other issues that I'd like to pose to mumsnetters. Everyone gave very honest advice (even if it was a little harsh at times) on my other thread (which I will update as soon as we have an update) and I (and my DP) would very much appreciate some honest opinions here too, and ideas of what to do etc.

My DSD (3) is starting a new preschool in January. She has been on the waiting list for over a year and was finally offered a place in October. It's so much better in every way than her current one, which has just had a "satisfactory" Ofsted report, and this one is "outstanding" - not that Ofsted reports are everything but it just adds to the list of reasons why the new one is better. It's bigger, more activities, better facilities, nicer location etc.

DSD's mum doesn't want her to change preschool but decided to leave it until 2 weeks ago to email DP to tell him. She likes the old one and wants her to stay there. We now have a very awkward situation as she is already enrolled in the new one and deposit is paid. For those of you who have not read my other thread, DSD's mum has only been having her and my other DSD on a 50/50 basis for the last 6/7 months. Before that, she was only seeing them about 1 night per week for around 2 years. During this time things like pre schools and schools were considered, visited, chosen and applied for - she wasn't interested in what choices were made, didn't want to visit any etc, so my DP and I did this, until 6 mths ago she had never been to see DSD's preschool. There is no residency order in place, no court involvement so far, which sort of makes things harder as when DSD's parents can't agree I guess it's a bit of a stalemate!

She hasn't actually given any particular reason for wanting to stop the move just "I like the current one". DP has asked her to visit the new one so she can see how great it is, she won't, she also doesn't want the prospectus we picked up for her, she just will not discuss it. DSD knows she is going to the new pre school after Xmas, she has been and visited with us a couple of times already too.

So my 1st question is What do we do? Cancel the new better preschool because her mum doesn't want her going there, even though she has been waiting for a space for so long, knows that's where she is going and we have paid deposit and we believe it's much better (hence the long waiting list).

My 2nd question is a little bit last minute. Next week, during the DSD's time with their mother, the new pre school is having their "induction" session for all new January starters. The children meet the staff and key workers and all the other new starters, parents have coffee and introduce themselves etc. This is only done once and unfortunately falls on a day when DSD's are with their mum. DP has written to her about 5 weeks ago and explained this all and proposed we take DSD to it (it's only 2 hrs). DSD's mum is at work that particular day, so DSD will be at pre school all day that day anyway so we would pick her up, take her for two hours and drop her back to preschool. DSD's mum has said no, DP cannot take her out of preschool for 2 hours as it is her week with the children.

Now as there is no court order in place DP knows he can very easily just go and get DSD and take her and return her but he is torn as to what to do. He has never once planned something during their time with their mum or asked to take them to anything during that time- and as she is working it doesn't make a difference to her anyway as DSD will be at pre school. He has asked their mum if she could get the time off work to take her instead of us, or we all go together, but she has ignored this possible idea. So what do you guys think? It is for DSD's pre school education but it's certainly not compulsory, it would just be very nice for her and I would think helpful for DSD to go. DP doesn't want to cause problems or act unreasonably during their mums contact time, but equally we know she is saying no because she doesn't want her to start at the new preschool at all (she may have other reasons but she hasn't mentioned any).

All advice greatly received, some of you have so much experience as step parents and of step family situations perhaps someone has been in a similar situation? Part of me just wants to say to DP, forget it, let her mum make the decisions just to keep the peace.

Well Pingu the reason she has that trip to do is because she decided to not be involved with DSD2 for any more than 1 overnight a week until about 6 mths ago, so of course DSD was placed into a preschool by her home, our house, this was well before we knew her mum would start having her more often or on preschool days, so her mums house location wasn't even in consideration when it was chosen. She doesn't do it 5 days a week anyway, more like 3 and she has to drive half the distance to get to DSD1's primary school anyway.

I am a little annoyed by the fact that a 2 hr round trip is too much effort to be able to see her children over Christmas. But like I said, I would do it.

Pingu.... You seem to have an issue with me? Are you a mum who's children have a SM that you dislike? You seem to be very much of the view that a SM, even a resident one who has jointly raised their DSC with her DP after then mum pretty much left them and didn't have much interest in them shouldn't take an active role in their lives.

Purple, she can tell the preschool her details if she likes, she doesn't need us to do it for her anyway. They do have her details though, I gave them to the pre school manager. She was of course provided with copies of the application forms when they were done and she goes there regularly now too. I do also have PR for both DSD's though, not that it matters, if there were to be a proper emergency I would be likely to get there first and would of course call DP and their mum right away.

So if there was an emergency with DSD at the preschool during her week with her mother you would get the phonecall and not her mother? She has made it clear from your other thread that she values her time with the children and doesn't want to surrender any of that but you would still try to impinge on it by putting yourself in between any communication she would have with the preschool where her own DCs go. And I simply don't believe that the school said they didn't need the contact details of a parent with whom they live half the time. I think it's far more likely you either minimised her involvement or didn't mention her at all.

Yeah that's right Millie, I didn't mention her at all and when she drops them off/collect them she wears her invisible coat! I did give them her details to have "on file" but their application forms do not ask for the details as standard of a non resident parent or second home or anything - one home address space and parents/carers living at this address. I feel you are trying to pick fault here where there is none. I think preschool have only ever called once and they called me first before DP as they know that I am SAHM and round the corner and I went and collected her.

I do also have PR for both DSD's though, not that it matters

WTF? You have PR, and failed to even mention that at any point throughout your threads? How on earth did you manage to acquire PR in this situation? And if that's the case, you and your DP, together, outnumber the ex here, and can basically ride roughshod over any wishes she has. And for that reason alone, I doubt there would be a court in the land who would grant that, knowing the potential battlefield that would create between 2 parents who already have difficulty in communicating.

Sorry, but I don't believe for a second that you have PR here, not being married to your DP, and not even being able to communicate with the other person who would have to agree to PR being granted to you.

I was referring to the new preschool when I suggested that you hadn't mentioned the mother. I'm not picking fault, I'm stating that you seem incapable of recognising that the wishes and status of the mother should be prioritised over your own position. You do also seem to have changed your story a bit as in the opening post on your first thread you portrayed a reasonable arrangement and a mother who was desperate not to lose any of her contact time. As the threads have moved on she has turned into a useless mother who has had to be coerced into caring for her own children.

And I also don't believe you have PR.

Yes snow, you are right. I do have an issue- but not with you, as you put it, because I don't know you.
I have however, lots of issues with the things that you say. You are spot on that I am also on the receiving end of a SM like you. To date, she hasn't quite gone as far as you have yet ( and if you'd just take a moment to actually read the hundreds of posters who oppose your views, you'd see that as far as stepmothers go- you are a pretty extreme version.
I've been a member of mn for a long time. The step parenting board is somewhere I spend a fair bit of time on. I get lots of fab advice on here and to be honest, it's kept me pretty sane when I've been up against some very unfair behaviour by my ex and his partner. Most of the posters on this board are step parents- unsurprisingly then, it's fair to say they understand each other and suffer a lot of the problems associated with step-parenting. The majority of posters who disagree with you are step-parents, and yet staggeringly - you still fail to see that you are wrong. You prefer instead to insist that we 'just don't get you' or that (in my case) we are mothers who's children have wicked stepmothers.

Lolerz

My dd's SM also told me she had PR for my dd. Fuck knows where she got that little gem from, but I happily enlightened her

I didn't mention it because it has no relevance to my original really bunchamunchy, and nobody asked until now. I also know that it often puts peoples backs up and they (as you have) assume that we could outnumber and override their mums decisions. We can't and wouldn't anyway. For things like school applications it needs to be agreed by all people with PR, we can say "two against one, ha ha" it doesn't work like that. Although, until now it's not been a problem as she has agreed the school application for DSD2. We probably could go to court and try and get some sort of order to enable us to get DSD2 to change preschool, but we really can't afford it to be honest, not just before Xmas, I'd rather spend the money on nice pressies for all the DC- plus I'm guessing it would take ages and by then she would lose her place.

It's not hard to acquire PR, their mum and DP both had to sign consent forms and DP's solicitor made an application to court and it was sorted. I did lots of things like doctors and dentists appointments and vaccinations and things so it made sense.

Made an application to court.

You said you had never been to court and neither yourself or DP had any experience of it.
You also said there was a lot of hostility and abuse from the mum towards you....yet you reckon that she handed PR over to you?

Snow, my child doesn't have a stepmother. I was raised by an amazing stepmother who is still one of the most important people in my life. I have one spare ticket to DS' nativity play next week and I gave it to her. So I certainly don't have any bias or grudge against step parents. But I think your actions are divisive, antagonistic and ultimately not in the interests of your DSCs.

Fair enough Pingu. I can understand your point of view and appreciate it too, although in a slightly round about way.

When you say you are on the receiving end of a SM like me? Did you walk out on your children and hardly see them for 2 year swhen they were babies? Did you refuse to take any interest in them or their upbringing, and have to be encouraged to see them and reminded when you were supposed to be seeing them? Was your DC SM and your EX left to raise your DC alone because you weren't really that interested? Would you sau to your EX and DC SM that you will see the DSD on Xmas day but only if they drive them both ways as you have "family" over that day? I'm thinking not....

I didn't mention it because it has no relevance to my original really

Erm, PR gives those who have it a say in where the child attends school/preschool etc. How on earth is that not relevant over a dispute between your DP and his ex over which pre-school your DSD attends? And 2 against 1 in terms of 'important' decisions to be made for a child is exactly why I don't believe for a second you actually have it.

A woman who won't even reply to a question over a change of pre-school happily signed a form giving you legal responsibility for her kids, all the while she's verbally abusing you/your DP?

No I haven't been to court nor has DP, we have no experience of courts. Perhaps made an application to court isn't the correct legal term - do excuse my ignorance when it comes to family court lingo. They filled in a very quick form each and Dp took it to his solicitor. We did not have to actually go to court at all, DP solicitor "entered the paperwork" "applied to court" or whatever it is called and that was it. I'm not imagining it!

No, Snow, I haven't done any of those things you mention. Forgive me though, but I don't actually believe that the situation here is as you are reporting it.
Sorry, but that's my gut feeling.

That's fair enough. Most people I talk to who don't know us do find it hard to believe a mum would ever not prioritise her children. I just spoke to DP and he seems to think it is fairly common for SM or SD's to have PR? Or is that incorrect?

Snow, if she is so useless and disinterested then why has she fought so hard to keep her 50% of the time?

Honestly, I can't answer that question Millie. I think she has just decided she would like to be in her DD's lives again I guess.

bunchamunchy your story is almost identical to mine with my ex. The only difference is he didn't have a bad childhood, maybe it wasn't ideal, in fact his mum blames the way he is on the fact that he was the youngest of 5 so thinks they prob spoilt him too much and were too soft on him. He now shies away from any responsibility and I too am solely responsible for all the decision making. It used to bother me, especially before I met DP as sometimes you just need some reassurance that you're making the right decisions. He's what I'd call a fair weather parent. He likes all the fun stuff but he's never nursed him when he's poorly or taken him to dr's, he doesn't even know where his school is never mind been there.
But I was the same as you, I'd get upset about things like him saying he couldn't have DS for the day because he was ill, well do I get to not look after him when I'm ill? No! It's called being a parent, you're looking after your son not your nephew!
But eventually after about 18 months of arguments someone told me about the parent/adult/child psychology model which basically says if you speak to somebody as though you're telling them off (like a parent) the other person will come back at you like a child, which is what he did, he'd give me abuse and then ignore me for weeks. But if you speak to somebody as an adult they respond like an adult so ever since then I have always just tried to remain adult like and we get on sooo much better and he's now really stepped up as a father. He's still not involved as far as decisions etc but he's much more reliable and I trust him a lot more. DS loves him to bits and that's all that matters. Life just became so much easier when I just let go and stopped trying to make him do stuff, I've left him to it and he's now changed because he wanted to, not because I told him to.

In OP's situation I suspect these emails may be guilty of being 'parent like' which is only going to make their mum pissed off and behave childlike by not replying.

Snow do you actually think this woman doesn't love her kids? Is that why you think you are justified in having such a low opinion of her?

I do think she loves them, just in her own way. I think they are equal to other things she also loves.

So you feel superior to her?

Not superior. I guess I feel towards her how I would feel if my EX didn't priortise our DC.

To my knowledge not all parents with PR have to OK a school application, when I applied for DS's school place there was no mention of his father, in fact I'm sure it just asked about DS's details not parents details.
Also, there isn't really any need for you to have PR, anybody can take a child to the dentists/doctor etc yes you may need your details against their file or maybe a letter from dad, but have you ever seriously been asked at dentists/doctors etc ''and who are you ? Do you have PR?'' No it's just not asked and its not necessary at all.
I'm beginning to think you're full of s* and the fact that you feel it's necessary for you to have PR to me shows that you're doing everything you can to claim as much of a hold over them as you can and to push their mum further and further out of the picture.

Poppy - how sweet of you to say I'm full of shit.

Have a little look at the new standard online application forms. They ask for childs home address, parents/carers living at the address and there is a separate section that asks for name and address of any other parent or person who has PR - why the heck would I lie about a bloody box on an application form is beyond me!

You are right, they will not contact everyone with PR to check they agree with the application, my point was all with PR should agree as if they don't anyone with PR can kick up a stink and apply to court (as far as I'm aware) even if it is 2 with PR against 1 without.

Yes, I have been asked if I have PR for the children when I have taken them for vaccinations actually! The nurse shouldn't give vaccinations without permission from someone with PR, so yes they do ask, unless they just assume you are the parent.

Actually snow, I'm gonna revise my last post to you and explain a few things.

When my dd was a few weeks old, her dad and I split up. Soon after it emerged that he was in fact now with the woman who is my dd's SM. I was understandably devastated, but after about a year, I was (or so I thought, on my feet). Unfortunately for me though, dd's SM had other ideas and both her and exp decided I was someone who they were 'up against' rather than someone to work with.
They criticised me relentlessly, harrassed me even, and I became so low about it, that I lost total confidence in my ability to parent dd. I started asking ex to have her more often, and yet he and her both still chipped and chipped at my perceived crapness. Ex ( encouraged by SM) scrutinised every minute detail of my parenting and like yourself, seemed to 'know' an awful lot about my life.
Ex and his wife tried to register dd in schools of their choice, change my Childminder, sack another Childminder, and take her for medical appointments together, saying I didn't need to go.
As a mother, I was now surplus to requirements. This behaviour almost destroyed me and I actually was very close to letting dd go to live there, because I could not take it any more. After around 2.5 years of this I decided to fight back. This did not go down well- they reminded me of how often I sent dd to theirs, when I 'couldn't cope'. They refused to acknowledge that it was THEM who almost broke me. They ( yes THEY) sent me letters detailing my failings and I ignored them. It was and is the only way I can manage them.

So reading that, is there even a teeny tiny part of you that can see the part you and your ex have had or continue to play in this situation? A little introspection here snow......