How do I go about this delicately?! Rather long..sorry!

[Lilypad34]

Hello,

This is my first time posting so please be gentle! :) my OH and I have been together almost 5 yrs we very recently became engaged. He has a daughter who is 8, I have decided that I do not want my own children and I do love his daughter (who I also refer to as mine!) very much.

She's an only child and over the years we have all been through a few learning curves, I don't have a relationship with his ex I find her handling of DSD at times jaw dropping. However as she is the mother I have never nor would I ever say anything to cause offence in front of DSD.

My soon to be step daughter is often shipped between us and her grandparents as her mother finds her hard to cope with for long periods of time. DSD is over the top hyper and if she is not the centre of attention at all times will cause whatever disturbance she can to get attention.

My now fiancé can at times be classed as a Disney dad, it appears both he and his ex have allowed DSD to bring herself up, resulting in lack of manners, no pleases or thank yous and a well instilled belief that she can do as she pleases whenever with no consequences.

I have a good relationship with her as I very quickly set my boundaries and she knows when I say no it means no and even the biggest tantrum has no effect.

My question after this very long winded essay is this...OH & I have decided to have a very quiet wedding away just the 2 of us. Now that DSD knows we are engaged (which she's really happy about..phew) I'm concerned her mum and grandparents will begin the .bridesmaid talk.

We plan on having a reception on our return from getting married and that is where I would love DSD to be my maid of honour, to wear a dress she loves and to be a part of all things girly for the event.

How am I going to explain to her that she is not going to to be at the wedding but will be a very important part of our reception without causing her upset? I dont want her to feel pushed out or feel she isn't wanted. She quite sensitive and I want to get this right so she's happy.

Also I'd like to avoid a huge tantrum and for my OH to feel guilty.

Thank you, sorry it was so long!

She hasn't always been this way, it's become progressively worse since her mum and her boyfriend split up in december. SD mum told her 'well done, you wanted me all to yourself now you can because X has dumped me'

DSD was very upset as you can imagine when OH picked her up the following morning, she now feels her mothers happiness is her responsibility. I was so angry I told OH he needed to deal with this ASAP that these kinds of harsh and very cruel words can have lasting effects. He spoke to her mum who said she felt bad and along with OH and myself have told SD that everything is ok, that mummy is fine that's she happy.

However we have recently discovered that her mum has spent a few nights in tears over her breakup and DSD has been witness and has called her nan to come over (they live close to each other)

Her mum isn't a bad person, she's having a difficult time and with the demands of DSD I understand how hard she's finding it.

OH has said to her mum she needs more time with her daughter to put on a happy face no matter what as DSD happiness should not revolve around her mothers. Nothing seems to have sunk in and on some level I think DSD has learnt that her being upset equals more attention.

Also it seems that DSD is sleeping in bed with her mum on the nights she's with her as her 'treat' it's really little wonder that she's as you say mixed up. She's being treated like an adult at her mums and a child at ours.

Her answer to us when we've asked her not to do something, such as chase the cats is met with either 'I can do what I like' or she simply ignores. The constant battle is exhausting and unless things change for the better I don't want another spoilt day.

I've realised while writing yet another essay how anxious I am! I want DSD to have a happy childhood to enjoy being a child but I realise there is only so much I can do. I dont know what to do when she ignores either of us or screams her head off as reward charts, no tv, sending her to her room has no effect.

I honestly think OH is so loathe to discipline her simply because of the seemingly hard time she has with her mum. I want her as part of my day but not unconditionally, I want her to behave. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong!

Oh no wonder shes being such a mare!

Really not fair to have all of that on her shoulders.

Her mum seriously needs to stop putting it all on her like that, because whatever you do if she carries on using her as an emotional crutch shes going to be disturbed like this.

As much as your OH is loath to discipline her, I think he must and that actually the consistency will do her good.

I think you are doing a really good job with her btw.

How long untill the wedding?

Ok, I can see this is hard, but I think you need to stop trying to get this child to 'behave' and start listening. It sounds like she's really muddled up. The things her mum has said and done will have put her under a lot of pressure.

I'm a bit concerned that you may be going for a couple-only wedding day simply because you don't want another spoilt day?

Being a SM is hell sometimes, I totally get that, but we have to try to include them, not shut them out, at least at the early stages - it is so hard with teens, but at eight she is still pretty little.

Thanks Amber,

I do at times feel like I'm out of my depth as I'm not a mother myself. Its a constant learning curve. We are planning a December wedding, DSD said to me 3 weeks ago, 'can I tell you something' I said ' you can tell me anything' so she told me how sad she was that mummy and X broke up and that is was all her fault. I felt awful for her but I said perhaps mummy & X broke up because he wasn't perfect for her, and mummy deserves that someone don't you think? She agreed and seemed happy until bedtime when it all started again!

Any ideas on how to handle this rip roaring tantrums?!

Sounds like her mum needs more support from people other than her DD. Probably not a lot you can do to encourage this, unless you know her or her friends quite well. But if she does have friends that she sees when DSD is with you, DSD might not be aware of this, so you might be able to reassure DSD a bit more that her mum is OK when she's not with her.

What she said about DSD having more time with her now she's split up was harsh and she shouldn't have said it, but it's all too easy to say nasty things when you're upset. And quite possible that DSD being a very needy child could have been a factor in the relationship breaking down. Not that that makes it her fault of course.

Having been in and out of some messy relationships a few years back - I would caution that you getting married may be something her mum finds hard to deal with. I was pretty cross that my ex was off getting married when I wasn't finding things so easy. Not suggesting you put any pressure on DSD not to talk about it to her mum, but worth being aware it may be an issue.

But if her mum's parenting is a bit erratic - that's all the more reason for your DH to discipline her consistantly.

Purpleroses, OH said 'she sends her congratulations' I know very well she doesn't and that it must be very hard for her. I get that, I am mindful of how she feels and I often ask OH how she's doing. I don't have much to do with her I don't exist in her world which is fine. If had a child and another woman came in to his or her life I think I too would find it hard.

I don't want to cause upset and DSD and I talk alot, we have girl time where she tells me alot of things. I try to give her consistency to give her boundaries there is no topic off limits if she wants to talk about her mum it's fine, it's her mum!

These moments of total joy are short lived and I don't know what it is I'm not hearing. Or could it be that OH isnt hearing? ultimately she wants mummy and daddy together and what child doesn't. OH and his ex broke up when she was just a baby so I find it hard to understand why when she has such a loving home with us and has done since she was 3 why now on the one hand she's happy we're getting married but on the other wants mummy and daddy together.

Maybe she wants her mum to be happy, and thinks that if she was with your OH she'd be happy, like you are. Hopefully her mum will find a new partner sometime, or learn to be happier in herself anyway.

My DD once said that I should move in with her dad - and his DW - "his bed is quite big, you'd all fit" - it wasn't that long ago - she was probably 6 or so at the time. What I'm saying is, what children want isn't necessarily consistant, nor remotely possible.

I really don't think there is anything wrong with this plan, and I suggest you follow the advice at the top of the thread - normalise this, and it will be fine. It is fine.

I completely disagree with the posters who suggest that this is unkind or 'excludes' DSD. There is a world of difference between having a "Wedding" with guests and excluding a child, and having a private ceremony with no guests or other family. If your mum and other immediate family are not attending, then there is no issue - no one is being excluded, because no one is invited! You simply tell DSD that you'd love her to be your bridesmaid at the reception, and perhaps you can give her a role at that - handing out flowers or reading a simple poem, something like that.

My DSD was older than yours when DH and I married. We had two services, as my family lives abroad - one here and one there. DSD was bridesmaid here, but I wanted my sisters to stand up with me in the other service, and that is what we did. DSD had no problem with it, as she was included in the ceremony that her own extended family attended. To be honest, even if she did have a problem with it, I would not have changed my plans.

Really I think as long as you present things in a straight-forward way, you don't have anything to feel apologetic about.

My DSS is 8 and still sometimes expresses a desire for us all to live together. He knows it's a nonsense now (when he was six he genuinely contemplated it I think), but he still wishes it, he says he is tired of missing one person or another wherever he is.

She actually won't get that the reception isn't the wedding, I'll bet a fiver on it. To her, the important bit is the bit where she gets to wear a very nice dress and be told how great she is. This is quite normal for 8.

given the circumstances for this little girl, i feel you would be doing her a massive diservice if you go away and get married with out her there. I would never consider doing this to my dd.

I too think you are doing a good job but, dont go and get married with out her.

And I still wouldn't have her at your actual wedding. I don't even want my own damned sprogs at my actual wedding, because they'll trash it.

But turning, this is a child who, for good reason, will demand to be the very centre of attention. You cannot do that on someone else's wedding day, not even if you're eight and it's your daddy.

She will be thrilled to be at the party in the nice dress. Just tell her you've got to go off to sign your name, and then you're coming back to have the Wedding Party (and make sure to pronounce the capital letters properly)

i dont agree that will help her it is excludidng her for how her parents have made her. not all her dad granted but it is not her fault and it will never address the problems, this little girl should be treated like an 8 year old and not a 5 year old as it seems she is. This is their child they are talking about you cant just exclude because you dont like how they behave.

Yep, having my 8 year old at my wedding would have stressed me out no end, that's why I got married before I had him, I must have known what was coming .

I see nothing wrong with what the OP wants to do, it's her day and she should be entitled to choose a few hours with her new husband alone whether he/she has kids or not.

Conversely anyone who wants to have their kids around them for the ceremony should be able to do so too. Ultimately it should be about what the bride and groom want. Is that really soooo terrible?

DSD said to me 3 weeks ago, 'can I tell you something' I said ' you can tell me anything' so she told me how sad she was that mummy and X broke up and that is was all her fault. I felt awful for her but I said perhaps mummy & X broke up because he wasn't perfect for her, and mummy deserves that someone don't you think? She agreed and seemed happy until bedtime when it all started again!

Poor thing, obviously because of what her mum said she feels responsible, though as purpleroses said her neediness may have been a contributing factor. that is a really big thing to carry around though.

These moments of total joy are short lived and I don't know what it is I'm not hearing. Or could it be that OH isnt hearing? ultimately she wants mummy and daddy together and what child doesn't. OH and his ex broke up when she was just a baby so I find it hard to understand why when she has such a loving home with us and has done since she was 3 why now on the one hand she's happy we're getting married but on the other wants mummy and daddy together

She probably has some conflicting feelings about it all, happy with you and your OH but at the same time sad and feeling a little guilty that her mum and dad arent together and happy, especially now that her mums relationship broke down.

Re the tantrums; I think your OH needs to set up a normal and regular way of not just disciplining her but an expected level of behavior, give her little jobs to do when shes there, praise and reward when she does them [very basic stuff I know but kids lap it up] small consequences if they are not done, but better to focus on the positive ie 'when you've put those table mats away we'll get the stickers and glitter out' rather than 'you wont get to use the glitter if you dont put away the table mats'

I think it would really help because IMO she is crying out for some consistency. OH must be 100% committed to this and not afraid of upsetting her in the short term as the long term good is whats important.

I agree with brdgrl, we aren't excluding her as no one is invited. Is it really so awful to have the day to ourselves?!

You sound like you are doing a wonderful job as a stepmother.

How does your OH feel - truly about his DD not being at your actual wedding?

I'd worry her not being there at the ceremony might be something that comes back to bite you (unreasonable as that might be) in the future.

Were I you I would have her there, and then go away for a proper honeymoon, which is the time that you can have that lovely time alone with new DH.

My OH is a great dad though he views his daughter as his friend. We've had talks about this, I think firstly you're a parent the friendship comes after. I think he needs to set in place some clear boundaries. Whilst I am at home he mostly does this however I am away so often I know he reverts back to letting her do as she wishes. This not only confuses DSD but frustrates me!

It's not her fault she is the way she is she is a product of her parenting I only wish OH could understand that. I once got told ignore the bad praise the good and detach. Perhaps I get too involved.

OP - why does your DD have to know you and your stbDH are getting married somewhere else and that the reception is not the actual wedding?

Her mum or grandparents might tell her if they know, but why does anyone who isn't actually attending the reception need to know it's not the wedding?

Presumably, there will be a small group of family/friends who know your DD well enough to chat to her one-to-one prior to the day itself, but they will, I am sure, be sensitive to the issue if you ask them not to?

If DD's mum asks when/where the wedding is, give the date/time of the reception.

I'm not even going to comment on the idea that a parents world must revolve around their DC's - is it any wonder that we are raising a generation of entitlement

I actually think that the wedding issue is minor compared to whats going on with DSD now and mainly since last december.

I also think if steps are made towards sorting out her emotions/behavior and whats causing them, then the wedding issue will be much easier to deal with whether you stick to your plan or whether she is involved in the day.

Basically the more sorted and happy she is the better it will be received whatever you decide to do.

Her behavior and unhappiness needs dealing with.

Your DSD is lucky to have you, you sound sensible! I hope some of it rubs off onto your OH!

I wish I had a manual, this feels like a minefield!

I dont think you can be too involved, I think the problem is that you both have differing views, you'r views where you want to address the problems and take some responsibility for the parenting which you rightfully should and he is obviously in denial of how things really are, he probably finds it difficult to face. I dont always agree with ignoring the bad as at a certain age and 8 definatly falls into that criteria, certain expectations should be insilled and if not followed then consequenses should be followed through. I would advice talking with your OH openly and frankly about this, you are already considering the possibility that excluding her may not be the right thing, so I would open the conversation up that way with OH, just say, look Im worried about how dd will feel about not being at the wedding and what this mean to her, then you can lead on to some of the other problems you feel are at play and talk to him about ways you can together attempt to resolve some of it with and for dd.

wedding aside, I also dont see any problems with talking directly with dd once you are both clear about things. My dd is 6 and recently she has become very problematic with arguing and aswering back and thinking she knows everything, she took this to the extreme where she would behave like this around and with everyone she came into contact with. i sat her down and pointed this out to her, I explained what the problems with this type of behaviour was and how other people may and do feel about it and explined to her that she needs to find some stratorgies to stop it, and I also made very clear what some of the consequences would be if it continued. DD responed well to this and I was able to recognise where she was conroling this and praised her for it aswell as punishing her when she gave little regard. it nipped it in the bud with in 2 weeks. The difficulty is that this will not continue when she is with her mother and you may feel like you need to start from scratch all over again. does oh and ex talk about her beahviour together?

My OH is a great dad though he views his daughter as his friend. We've had talks about this, I think firstly you're a parent the friendship comes after. I think he needs to set in place some clear boundaries. Whilst I am at home he mostly does this however I am away so often I know he reverts back to letting her do as she wishes. This not only confuses DSD but frustrates me!

I don't want to upset you, but this is one of the reasons there is such a high divorce rate for second marriages with children involved. I think it would be better for everyone involved to sort this issue before you get married, rather than think that you can resolve it afterwards.

I urge you to get hold of a copy of a book called "Stepmonster" by Wednesday Martin, and once you have read it, ask your stbDH to read it too.

Don't be put off by the title - It is an honest account of the difficulties faced by stepmothers and the reasons behind them.