DSD given too many choices again!

[wickedestsminthewest]

I had enough. Dh and I have been planning to take dsd to France for a week in August. Frankly I am dreading spending a week with her but of course it is her divine right to have a holiday so it must be done.
He checked the dates with her mum and she said they were okay. He told dsd of our plans over the phone while she was with mum and she complained because she wanted to go somewhere hotter and said as we're staying with my aunt it's not a proper holiday (aunt owns a fabulous guest house in the Loire valley and also has space for dsd to bring her friend) anyway, he told her those were the plans and that's what we're doing.
Now this morning her mum has emailed to say "I agreed to your dates but only if dd wants to go, if she doesn't I'm not going to make her"
Arghhhh FFS! She's 13... She'll do what she's told like the rest if us had to at that age! After all the shit that's gone on since December dh was feeling excited about spending a week with his dd and thought he was doing a nice thing, only for those two to shit all over it.
There have also been photos on FB of dsd with her stepdad and all her mums friends are in there commenting that they look so scarily alike and how he could be her Dad. It's so sad. Dsd doesn't even like her sd yet is having this happy family forced on her in order for her mum to be able to rewrite history and make out that dh doesn't exist.
I really do fear for dsd's future with all this shit parenting and point scoring.
(sorry, ranty)

It's not bizarre. Children get given more and more freedom to make decisions about their lives over a period of time, including decisions about how they spend their time and who they spend it with. The early teenage years are exactly the right time for that to happen, hopefully the adults around them will support them in that and give them a safe environment to make those decisions.

I stopped seeing my dad for a while at fourteen. I'm extremely glad there was no court around to bully me into something I didn't want to do.

I've already said that politeness is important for children when dealing with unwanted gifts. It's not the same as gratitude though. Politeness and manners are actions. Gratitude is a feeling.

No, we do not agree - I do expect my DD to have an awareness of the motivation behind gifts/actions and I do expect her to feel grateful for the fact that someone took time and effort for her, even if the material outcome isn't what she would have chosen. Acknowledging the sentiment behind the gift is something I have taught my DD from a very early age.

You say that you didn't enjoy your holiday with your grandparents - I'm sure they did their best to make it fun and enjoyable for you, but they didn't get it quite right. Do you not feel grateful that they spent time and money on you? Do you resent that their best effort was not good enough and you didn't enjoy it?

If you do, I know you are not alone and I am increasingly in the minority,

It is this kind of social expectation - that the outcome is more important than the motivation - that I increasingly struggle to deal with.

NYAC - what is more important in your opinion; a DC's relationship with a parent, or their academic education?

I agree with the principle that teens are given responsibility gradually - it is the prioritisation of those choices and the outcomes that I disagree with.

Well there you go. Adults aren't always honest about the sentiments or motivations behind gifts or a holidays in this case, which is odd to be described as a gift given that both adults are getting the "gift" of the holiday too. Gifts usually imply something selfless.

Certainly in this case they are taking her on a holiday which sounds like it's for them (visiting the OP's friend, in the very middle-aged Loire Valley) rather than anything in particular for the SD. And the OP is approaching it with an attitude of resentment. So why should the stepdaughter be feeling gratitude for exactly in this situation?

I don't think my grandparents motivations behind our holiday were good either, and as an adult I've seen it a lot more clearly. But that's not the issue here. I just brought it up to give the point of view of a 13 year old who was taken to the Loire Valley and didn't want to go, because it is a dull place.

Depends on the parent NADM. In my case it was better for me not to see my father and it was lucky I was in the position to be able to make that decision.

I'm sorry but until they are old enough to book and pay for their own holidays my dc and sdc will go on holiday with us. If its not the best 2 weeks of their lives then tough, I expect them to be grateful that we have spent money and time and given them an experience and hopefuly some happy memories.
I am obviously in the minority on this though, but at least I am as wicked as a mother as I am a step mother

So do you just plan holidays without consulting your dcs and your sdcs, or without thinking about what they might like too Kaluki? So that the whole family is in some kind of agreement? I can't imagine that you do.

There are two sides to this:

1. Yes, I feel that at 13+, kids do tend to want some input on what they do and where they go. Much more so than in previous generations. I, personally, do not feel that this is simply a greater sense of entitlement, but lots to do with the world they live in. The age of FB and photosharing (often immediate) means that kids feel far more pressure to be doing something 'cool' and not something that they feel is 'uncool'. I have two DSDs who will only come on holiday if we are going somewhere they want to go.

1. BUT!! In my case, the DSDs tell DH / Me up front: Yes, I would like to do XXXX; No, I would not like to do YYYY. We have two small children who (obviously) want to do things the elder ones would hate and while they are always told about the trip, there is no real expectation for them to come. What is utterly frustrating for OP is that the DSD KNEW the details of the holidays / dates etc., Plans have been made and now she wants to dictate the odds.. And, actually, it is worse than that, because the DSD hasn't actually come back and said what she DOES want to do.... SO OP and her DH are supposed to have some sort of mental telepathy????

I can see why the OP would be frustrated by that attitude.

I think I would email back that of course dsd is very welcome to come on holiday with you and you are looking forward to having a great time etc but no one wants to spend a week with a girl that is forced to be there and therefore if dsd doesn't want to come on holiday then she will have to stay home - but there will not be an alternative holiday or treat.

Then reiterate the holiday is to be enjoyed and if she doesn't want to come then so be it but no other treats in its place.

I have taken both my dd's to the same area on holiday and we have had a great time.

Op don't wind yourself up on your dp's behalf with your dp's ex new family arrangements. it will do your head in, detach from it if you can to preserve your own sanity.

Depends on the parent NADM. In my case it was better for me not to see my father and it was lucky I was in the position to be able to make that decision.

I do not believe that a 14 year old is emotionally mature enough to know if it is "better" for them not to see a parent or not. They certainly don't understand the long term implications - and it may be too late by the time that they do.

Society does not believe that a DC of this age can decide whether or not they would benefit from going to school. Parents are held accountable for that - I just don't understand how come that same DC is capable of deciding whether or not to see a parent?

So do you just plan holidays without consulting your dcs and your sdcs, or without thinking about what they might like too?

Damn right I do! I do not run my household like a democracy - but I appreciate I am in the minority.

funny really - my DD could vote with her feet and refuse to spend any time with me at all - her Dad does give her that choice......but DD still chooses to spend time in the dictatorship that is our family. I wonder why?

Unfortunately it was the adults around me who were immature and didn't act to protect me from my father. :(

It was me who sadly had to step up to the plate and act to protect myself in that situation.

So I would strongly disagree with you there.

We definitely disagree then NADM. In my view might doesn't equal right. And adults who think it does are mistaken.

Your DD probably wants to spend time with you because you're her mother. Even daughters with dictatorial mothers have strong bonds with them and love for them.

NYAC What are you implying? That NRP whose DC's refuse to see them are a risk to their DC's?

I'm not implying anything. I'm talking about my situation.

I think I'll get off this thread. I missed out that it's in the Step Parenting section, which is a very hostile environment for step children.

maybe she doesn't want to go with you op? as she can feel your dislike, disapproval etc?

Thanks for fighting my corner while I've been away

NYAC, there is huge backstory which of course you are forgiven for not knowing. It would be impossible for me to explain everything every time I come on here so I rely mostly on those who "know" me to understand what Im ranting on about. As an aside, nor my DH or I resent paying maintenance for his DDand there is nothing on this thread to suggest that is the case so not sure how you reached that conclusion on the small amountof info you have been given

Everything we want to do with DSd is deemed as not good enough or "lame". Last year her mum took her for a three week trip to Florida so yes, I imagine a two week trip in a remote part of france would seem a bit rubbish in comparrison. But it is something that we, as a family can A, afford, and B, have planned as something we can all enjoy. DSD can bring her best friend, there is a water park nearby. There is a vineyard for DH and I to visit. There is wifi and a huge garden as well. Altogether a fairly tame but pleasant family break away.

If the family were "together" then DSD would just have to come, she would have no choice. She'd probably be cross about it but it would give the family quality time away and memories that she would take through to adulthood (much like the dire trips to our caravan on the isle of wight that we had to suffer as kids ) But because of how things are here, DSD stamps her feet, turns her nose up because it's not what she deems to be suitable for her supierior tastes, her Mum empowers her brattish behaviour and she chooses not to come... no matter that it might hurt her Dad's feelings, no matter that it's rude, no matter that it would be good for her... as long as she is happy right at this moment in time, that is all that matters.

I hope she goes with you and I hope you all have a nice time OP, and the part of the Loire Valley that you visit isn't as deadeningly dull as where I was.

If you do want any input though, when the holiday I was talking about was being planned, I asked to go to the seaside. The French coastline is wonderful - South, West or North. I don't know if it would more expensive, but I think young teenagers generally like being at the beach, even if it's not a glamourous trendy holiday.

It's not my friend. It's my aunt, and it's the only way we can afford to go abroad. When DH suggested holidaying in the UK DSD had a tantrum that a two year old would be proud of. Such is his insecurity at the moment that he was upset that he couldn't take her away. I spoke to my Aunt about the situation and she said we could stay with her for a week for nothing so I was pleased that I'd managed to workout a way forDH to be able to meet the demands of his incredibly entitled DD.

And no, it isn't that she doesn't want to go away with me. She was quite happy to go away with me when she thought it would be an all inclusive to somewhere exciing and hot (which I told her was out of the budget) and was wanting to plan shopping trips to buy clothes for the trip together.

I'm not sure how my planning the trip is selfish exactly - I don't have my own DD that week. I could (and will if her attitude continues) go to my aunt's by myself, take some good books and sit under a tree and unwind and get trollied on local wine after what has been a hellish 6 months.

The more insecure your dh is the more trouble the dsd will be its a bit like a catch 22, but when he puts his foot firmly and silently down it will stop.

I'm afraid that yes her happiness is all that matters.

ohhlordylordy has hit one of the nails on the head... "And, actually, it is worse than that, because the DSD hasn't actually come back and said what she DOES want to do.... SO OP and her DH are supposed to have some sort of mental telepathy????" It seems to me that although DSD complained on the telephone to her Dad when he told her the plans...she was actually going to go. He told her they were the plans, end-of and she sucked it up grudgingly(Annoying, yet fairly normal teenage behavior) but now the email from her Mum suggests that after the conversation her Mum has allowed her to beleive thatshe has a choice and instead of doing what any sane adult would do which is look for the positives of the holiday (friend coming, wifi, sun etc) has gone down her usual route of "If you don't want to do what your dad says, then don't" and the passive aggressive email doesn't really spell anything out... it just makes a suggestion that DSD may not want to go, and sets the clear picture that if she kicks up a fuss then Mum will backher all the way.
Don't responsible parents present a united front??
What will happen to this child who is being taught that her (incredibly level headed, kind, calm and wise) father is just a prick that can be laughed at and ignored???

Good luck to her managing the monster she's creating is all I can say.

I'm afraid that yes her happiness is all that matters.

ohgawd, why the face? I'm assuming you don't really mean this?

The more insecure your dh is the more trouble the dsd will be
So true!

If you don't want her to go and she doesn't want to go then what's the problem?