The Red Hen gets angry and needs to stay angry.

[theredhen]

I spent yesterday evening telling DP that I think his children are rude, lazy, arrogant, entitled, badly mannered, bullying and selfish individuals. I told him that they are the product of the petty arguing between him and his ex and that his whines of "I just want to see my kids" are pathetic and he should want his kids to grow up to be decent people instead of only thinking of his own needs. His ex wife is nasty, arrogant and controlling and he has an uphill struggle to teach his kids the right path, but if he makes no effort, they are just the product of her teachings, and boy does it show!

This all came about after his eldest spoke to me like a piece of dirt for the last time and DP just stood by and let her in front of an outsider too (the look of shock on her face was a picture!). It's been building up for some time. His eldest is constantly looking down her nose, ignores at best and at worst critisises and judges me very vocally. Snide put downs are about the only time she talks to me or my son, her siblings or Father, the best you can hope for is for her to talk about how wonderful she is.

I won't go into the details of how they behave, I've documented it well here in the past, although it's tempting to have a rant.

DP took everything I said and didn't defend his kids once. He said he hasn't always noticed things but said he did want his kids to be "nice" people and behave properly in public. I was waiting for him to start critisising my son, but he didn't. He said he will have a "word" with his kids at the weekend. I told him it will take a lot more than a "word" to change things.

I've told him I will no longer work to keep the peace for his and his kids sake, I will defend myself and my son every time we are disrespected and he should expect a lot of resistance from his kids and ex wife. I suspect it will push them completely away from me and against my son. If DP does back me up properly, then I suspect there is a good chance he will lose his children.

I've also told him that I am not prepared to live in a battleground in my own home and at nearly 40 years old this is not my problem to have to live with.

So, if I stay angry, I can use it to assert myself more and keep on reminding myself that I have a right to be spoken to with respect in my own home, that I have a right to my own possessions and space. I have the right to bring up my own son in the correct manner and teach him not to tolerate bad behaviour, abuse and bullying.

However, no-one stays angry forever and I know it's not healthy anyway. I am by nature, not a fighter and an arguer. I learnt from a young age to smooth things over and keep the peace but I know that attitude is not the right way forward in this situation. It's what has brought me to this position and done me no good whatsoever, except that it has given me time to learn a lot of things!

We are still on the waiting list for Relate. Have been waiting 6 months now. We got an appointment but DP answered the phone and said he would talk to me and let them know if we still needed it. By the time he told me and I phoned back, the space had gone, so we've been on the waiting list for months! The way I feel now, I don't want to talk to anyone about it and to try and be understanding. I think everyone else has had quite enough understanding from me and it's about time I started being caring to myself and in turn, my son. I don't discuss too much with my son, but he put his arms round me yesterday and told me to "not let the DSC upset me and to think of nice things".

So to those of you who have been kind enough to stick with me and my rants on here, I ask you, how to keep this momentum? To be so damn determined to not put up with this anymore. I was thinking of giving myself a time limit to live with things before I give notice to the tenants living in my house or decide to stick with it. I've sorted out a lot of the practical things that needed sorting before Xmas when I was last properly considering my options, although of course, it's a daunting prospect arranging to move furniture etc. with DP being resistant.

I've read a lot of your posts Redhen, and I have a lot of time for you. Your DP sounds weak, his children sound dreadful and I don't know how you put up with it, and sadly I can't see much changing.

It's impossible to detach when there are 4 step children who spend such a lot of time in your home. Up til now, you've decided to stay, and I respect your choice. Starting again and going it alone is scary, and I can't criticise you for not wanting to take that step.

You say you're thinking of giving yourself a time limit of putting up with this, before giving notice to your tenants and moving out. However this sounds like you're delaying making a choice, and buying yourself time. I don't think you can make your mind up. However deciding to stay put for the time being is a choice in itself and if you would prefer to maintain the status quo for whatever reason, then you don't need to justify yourself to us. There are clearly enough postiives in your present situation to stop you from heading for the door.

What I'm trying to say is: if you choose to stay put and still get angry and vent on here, then that's your call Hun. I get the impression that whilst it all drives you mad, deep down you don't want to leave. There's nothing wrong with that, as I just said on a different thread, it's your life and only you walk in your shoes.

I'm not trying to steer you in either direction, but the fact that you're still living there and haven't yet given notice to your tenants, is indicative of your preferences.

I never get bored of hearing from you, and if you have a melt down every couple of months, I'll still read your threads and reply to you.

Amen!

Where to start!

I don't think you should stay angry or even be angry - I just think you need to take action. You have put up with enough. Your DP says he will "have a word" with his kids but that just sounds like he's fobbing you off.

What is really telling about his commitment to work to make a change is that he didn't know if you still needed the Relate appointment and then didn't even tell you about the call until it was too late.

it is his actions (or lack of) that tell you what you need to know. I am really sorry you are in this situation but, having followed your posts, I really can't see what the benefits are to you staying.

I agree with glass - having realised that you were unhappy, if he was genuinely bothered about the relationship you share, he would have accepted that appointment and seen it through come hell or high water. He's not "fighting" for your partnership, is he?

Saying that, while that would be dealbreaker for me, I know it isn't for everyone. If, to you, the thought of being alone is worse that the thought of sharing your life with someone who isn't bothered whether you are there or not, then you can still seek counselling for yourself - to help you come to terms with living in this situation, and it may even lead you to come to a different decision.

What is that saying "if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got". It's clear you are not happy - but there are so many different options open to you as to how you can change your behaviour, that I understand that it is difficult to decide what to do next

The risk, as I see it, is that if you are both in an unhappy relationship, there is a higher chance that one, or both of you, will become emotionally or physically dependant on someone else in time. That would add additional complications to the ending of your relationship.

I wasn't suggesting Redhen stay in a situation that makes her genuinely unhappy, but I suspect that if she were finding it totally intolerable, that she may have left by now.

Oh RedHen

You have tolerated so much and I have seen your uphill struggle on here.

Have you asked yourself how you really feel about DP? How much has he damaged your relationship and your feelings for him by his neglect of you and your son? (I know some might think neglect is a bit strong - but he hasn't thought about your feelings and he's expected a lot from you, taking for granted your generosity)

Your son sees you unhappy and is clearly himself not as happy as he could be. Is this something that could be 'mended' if your SC can make this big change? - Will he be able to forgive DP and the SC and get along happily with them?

I know, - probably only time will tell with those two points.

And all this is assuming your DP will actually have the talk and they take heed and change their behaviour - that is a huge IF.

I'm sorry to say I think it's unlikely they will change, and if your DP withdraws his support and backing up of you then I don't think you or your son will ever be happy in that household.

Hurrah Redhen, nothing wrong with your anger and I'm glad you have come out fighting. It could be the difference that makes your DP change although I was disheartened to hear he didn't snap up the counselling appointment.

I had to go through something similar as I finally snapped some years ago and it was, in reflection, the way forward for us. We did also do counselling which was important as DH heard how his overly positive approach to DSS's poor behaviour would cause parenting challenges in teen years.

So now you have to judge DP by his actions - maybe keep a log of incidents and see what his response is. Agree that you will review with him in a time period.

I'm glad you are angry as your anger unexpressed would cause depression.

Hi

So sorry to hear this RH. But if you want my advice on how to turn the anger into energy is to look in the mirror and tell yourself you have forty years left.

It's a long time.

Make them happy.

I would try and get some sole counselling to see you through this time, whether Petal is right, only you know.

I agree that 40 years is a long time to be unhappy. I do put up with a lot and I often wish DP was more proactive in changing his daughter's ways. But since we met he has come a long way in standing up to his ex and he is always in my corner when it comes to DSD... he just doesn't really do anything but agree.. but then as we never have her now I don't knwo what he could do even if he tried.

But anyway, what I am trying to say is that in general, I am happy - the situation with my DSD is usually fairly minor and just flares up in to a huge thing every so often. If this is eating away at you day by day like I feel it is from reading your posts, then I think solo counselling is a very good idea.

redhen whether u choose to set a time limit to stay or go is a choice that only u can make as the others have already said on here so my only point would be something I was told in counselling years ago. To change someone is impossible but if u change yourself u can affect change in those around u. Once u have chAnged ur behaviour others have to change. It does work. For years I was a doormat good and proper. When I learnt to assert myself better people stopped taking ths piss and the situations I hated have now ceased. Sounds easy but it took time and practise. I personally think if u stick to your guns and start some counselling just for you, you will get somewhere. You will know if and when it's time to go.... I sound like a bloody hippy here but you will know when it's time to give in so continue for fight but don't stay angry as it will damage u more than those that probably deserve it. If that makes sense. Good luck. X

Unless you are absolutely broke I would go and find a couples therapist, you don't have to use relate. Someone who is a trained psycotherapist, preferable a recommended one. The other suggestion given to me was to ring around several speak to them about what you want to achieve for it and go for the ones that gives you a gut feeling.

Much cheaper than a divorce if it does help you work things out. Will hopefully enlighten your dh either way.

oh, redhen. I'm actually glad you're angry - these things needed to be said, and they need to be addressed.

I think if you want to transfer your anger into action, and that forward momentum, you need strategies. You need a plan. Maybe that means planning out and even rehearsing with your DH how you (or the pair of you, or him) are going to deal with model situations as they come up. Or setting aside a time every day or every week that is devoted JUST to talking about the DSCs and how things are going. Or making a new set of house rules (do you have house rules?) and sitting all the kids down together and making it very very clear that thsi is a new era...and here are the consequences. But you've GOT to see DH put his words into action, don't you?

I do agree with glass, your DH should have jumped on that Relate appointment and it is telling that he didn't. Frankly, getting my DH to take things seriously enough and to feel the sense of urgency that I do about them has been a HUGE problem...getting him to the point where he could be bothered to actually DO something instead of just talking about it was hard...getting him to the next level, acknowledging that there actually WERE problems about the family dynamic that needed to be addressed - that was huge...Once it clicked for him, things DID get dramatically better. But it was a nightmare getting to that point.

Anyway - don't wait around for Relate anymore. Make an appointment with a private counsellor if you possibly can. Even if you can't afford more than a couple of visits, it might help your DH to see things more clearly. We went to relate (for quite a long time, actually); after we stopped that, we did go to see a private therapist twice - unfortunately, we truly can't afford to keep going to see her - but even just those couple of visits were helpful. And if your DH won't go or drags his feet over it, then you go by yourself. I don't think counselling or therapy are magic cures (they haven't been for us or for me!) - but it gives you an outlet and an ally (an ally not because they will 'take your side', but because you will have someone else working on solutions with you).

Hi Redhen.
I feel for you - I'm in a similar (although not as bad) situation.
I issued the ultimatum at Christmas and until recently things were much better but they are sliding downhill again and after this last week / weekend I was at boiling point on Monday.
Maybe staying angry isn't the answer but I agree that you must stick to your guns. You have every right to demand respect in your own home and if he loses his dc because he backs you up then that is his problem. If he won't back you up over his obnoxious kids then frankly you are better off without him.
My DP's one and only saving grace is that he does back me up and he does see what his kids are like.

If he didn't he would definitely be an ex by now.
And yes - rant away as much as you like to us. We can take it

I tried talking to DP again and I told him I feel we can't communicate and he always dismisses my feelings and finds ways to push them away. He listened quietely and then went on to say how he has to put up with my son ignoring him by only saying "Mum, you never guess what happened today?" for example. I told him that if that was the only issue he has, then I consider him to be very lucky! He did it again, refused to listen and insulted me by saying he is in the same position as me, which he is clearly not! He told me that he will work on their manners, I told him by faffing around the edges and taking me out to dinner when the kids aren't available, he is papering over the cracks, the real issue is his lack of security surrounding his relationship with his kids and no amount of dinners and gentle reminders will change that.

I have today taken a day off sick as I am in such a state and have made an appointment with a counsellor on Monday. I went to see my GP earlier this week and he has said I am suffering from stress related conditions. I have also sent an e-mail to my letting agent asking them to give notice. I can't allow myself to think through the practicalities of that right now but at least in 2 months time, I will have some practical options.

I really do think my DP loves me and wants us to be happy, but he is doing all the wrong things and he refuses to see it. He has said he is willing to see a counsellor with me, but I feel I have no energy to keep trying with the relationship. I am sick to the back teeth of venting and talking about his ex wife and his kids. Maybe I can reconsider when I am feeling better.

I have waited too long for him to make me happy by changing his deep rooted fear of losing his kids, I don't know how he changes that, but that's up to him. I need to find some inner strength and start thinking about me and my son and put us at the forefront of my mind. I hope the counselling will help me with that. I have some good friends in real life, who I think can see me through it too. I can't tell you the courage it took me to do those things today. How on earth am I going to stand up to these kids if I can't do those simple things? I am really scared and on some level I feel I am giving up.

It is not 'giving up' to want a happier life for you and your son. Giving up would be accepting your 'lot' and settling for a life of unhappiness for you both.

Just wanted to send you a big hug and some cyber moral support.

We're with you all the way :)

Hi RedHen, more support for you from me too. I've read lots of your posts since joining here and I think your DP is very lucky you have been so patient for so long.

I think if you have another option, your own home, then a little time based there could be really good for you. It must be hard to think in the thick of it.

You are not giving up. We only get one life and we have the right to be able to enjoy it if possible.

I gave my DP an ultimatum a couple of years ago. I am pleased to say that he stepped up and life is so different. But I would have walked if it hadn't changed. I told a 'friend' about this and she gave me a lecture about staying to make it work, about it being my responsibility to make it work. I said bollocks - sometimes the person causing the problems has to take responsibility for making it work. And the person who wants them to do it has to accept they can't force them.

And me Redhen, you've always given me good advice. For what its worth I think you are very brave and doing the right thing for you and your DS. You owe it to you and him to be happy and if you can't do that at home right now then you need to take some time out. Once you've taken yourself out of the situation I think you will know how to move forward. On another note, I agree with counselling just for you - it can only help. Good luck x

What about if you moved back to your property but continued your relationship with DP? Do you think that might work?

It would also speak volumes about not being able to live with awful behaviour of his children and their dreadful treatment of you, but that you still love him.

You could then give it a couple of years and consider living together again later, - perhaps the children would have matured into nice human beings by then

There have been times when I have wished I had somewhere to escape to with my children. Even though I love DH so very much his children have been just awful to me at times - and to my children and I've wanted to run away.

Sorry, got interrupted by DP - see I don't even get 10 mins to write a message.

I wanted to say a big thank you to you guys. I honestly don't think I could have got this far without you guys. People in real life with no experience of step parenting just don't get it.

You just get the "you knew what you were getting into". Sigh.

I expect I will need a lot of hand holding, so along with you guys, my friends and the counsellor, I am hoping to come out the other side a stronger, happier person.

I would love to go back to living apart but still having a relationship with DP, it was the happiest 2 years of my life. I have suggested it in the past and got a resounding "no" and lots of talk about what other people would think.

I think if I move back, I will lose him, I think he just wants to prove to everyone, including his ex wife that he is moving on and everything is fine and dandy. Bury everything under the carpet and it goes away, is what he has learnt in life even though his wife walked out on him.

We are with you all the way, hands firmly held.

Hi RH

Total support here. I have my own place too and somethimes I hanker after the days when we lived apart and I dont have anything like the trials you have. It can be the best of both worlds..

Love will conquer all as they say. I think if you move out and see how you both feel then, then you will have your answer. I know this happened to friends of mine. They ended up being apart for 2 years but slowly got back together and on track.

It might not feel like it right now, but you are being incredibly brave. It is definitely not giving up if you feel you can't continue as you are.

If there is one thing I have learnt in recent years it is that life is too short, it really is. Too short to be unhappy, too short to be treated like crap in your own home and too short not to put your son first.

Well done for those steps you have made today, don't dismiss them, they are really important things you have done for you. I can tell it took guts. You are a gutsy lady and you can change things for the better for you and your son. It might be that your DP hurts and is massively inconvenienced by your actions but don't waver in seeing this through to whatever conclusion you decide is best for you. You have put everyone else before yourself for too long. Now it is your time - you have all our support x

Oh, RH, it's all on his terms, isn't it? He decided when you see a counsellor, he decides whether or not you move out, he decides whether or not what you are feeling is reasonable

Does he not realise that he is going to lose you unless he shapes up, or has he gone into victim mode and is resigned to it rather than do anything about it? I honestly think that if he hasn't heard the message yet, then he never will.

Well done for being brave - you will work through this, and come out the other side, a bit battered and bruised maybe, but you'll heal and those life lessons will help you in the future. Have in any combination that will help!

He feels that he can't do anything about his situation and he has to lump it and can't do anything about it, so obviously I have to do that too.

His idea of trying to talk about things is to tell me that he's really looking forward to seeing his kids tomorrow, despite me telling him how hard I find it coping with their behaviour. It almost felt like "I'm alright Jack and I don't give two hoots about you" sort of comment. Where is the discussion about what he is going to say to them, how we are going to move forward? He just says he will have a "word". I suspect he will tell his daughter I am feeling a bit upset, and maybe she could be a bit nicer to me!

He has offered to come to counselling on Monday, I've told him not at this time, I need to do this for me alone.