DH labelling ice-cream in freezer

[nomedoit]

My son, aged 19, has been home for uni over the summer. He is a nightmare. Rude (really, you could say almost abusive to me), hostile, lazy, untidy, disorganized. My DH and I are both counting down the days til he goes back and I stop running a hotel for him. I've tried the whole boundary thing but nothing works, he is immune to it all. He made very little effort even to get a job. Honestly this the DS day:

1pm - get up
1.30 - large breakfast plus TV
4.00 - nap
5.00 - contents of fridge plus TV
7.00 - huge dinner
8.00 - go out to friend's house
4am - bedtime

Poor DH has withdrawn. Anyhow. tonight he has labelled some ice-cream he bought, 'Do not eat.' Because DS bloody eats everything. And I felt like crying. Labelling our food just seemed to symbolize how fractured our 'family' is.

Really feel for you but believe it or not as a step-parent to a similiar horror I actually envy you. You know why - because you are not putting up with all this crap and having to fight off a defensive natural parent as well - trust me its double hard work - though to be fair to you I cant say my stepson is as abusive as your son. But the thing is I have a grown up son of my own and I often say to DH that if it was my son behaving like this - then I would say xyz is going to happen if you do that again - and stick to it!. In short if it was my son it would be sorted in five minutes. Tell him he's ok for this year but unless he changes his ways he's not coming back next year - much as you love him you're not tolerating his behaviour - and this is the hard but essential bit stick to it and stop paying his bills !!

Sorry - didnt mean if your son was my son it would be sorted in five minutes - I meant if my stepson was my son my situation would be.

By the way I hide food in the salad drawer - its a scary place apparently for these young folks ! I also hide my best steak knives - after third time of retrieving them from his room or the skip as I call it and last straw digging one out of the bin with remnants of his dinner. Also hide any nice crockery and only leave out chipped mismatched stuff -again for same reason plus he breaks things for fun. Any treats I get e.g. chocolates from my family for birthdays etc. I keep in our bedroom. Reason being he will think nothing of troughing the lot - oh except the ones with nuts in - he just eats the chocolate around them!! I once even got chocolate eclairs (the cakes not the sweets) knowing full well he doesnt like cream and my DH had his but mine was still in the fridge the next day - DSS actually asked if he could just have the chocolate top part off it - leaving me just to eat a bottom layer of pastry and cream presumably - told him where to go in no uncertains but its just his audacity that drives me to distraction. Its like everything in the house is there for the taking or using (or abusing)- its like I feel like screaming sometimes -cant I have f anything. But my DH gets very angry or sarcastic at me for hiding things and as he puts it 'any old rubbish will do for him (DSS} wont it'. But my behaviour is reactive Im afraid and I just got so sick of having things broken 'borrowed' or claimed by him that squirreling is my defence tactic Im afraid. We do feed him by the way - we get food he likes and treats for him etc its not as if he behaves like this out of neccessity

For any future discussions, you need to use the broken record technique - google it for more info but basically you decide on your line and repeat it as many times as it takes. Since he is so keen to argue, you have to avoid engaging in an argument with him. You don't have to explain your position; he knows what it is by now - so you just keep signalling that you're listening, but then making the point again that this is what you're going to do. I'd suggest something like:

1. Talking over us

• just stop talking when he begins, wait till he shuts up (however long this takes) then say your line: 'You must do what we ask and pull your weight around the house if you're going to stay here over the summer'.

1. Going into victim mode e.g. 'I have good grades, why can't I do anything to please you?' Sign. Martyred look.

• 'You do do things to please us, but you must do what we ask and pull your weight around the house if you're going to stay here over the summer'

1. Going into aggressive mode

• 'I can see you're angry, but you must do what we ask and pull your weight around the house if you're going to stay here over the summer'

1. Going into 'you don't understand how hard my life is' mode

• 'I know you feel that things are hard for you at the moment, but you must do what we ask and pull your weight around the house if you're going to stay here over the summer'

1. Flatly denying everything we say

• 'That's your opinion, but we're saying that you must do what we ask and pull your weight around the house if you're going to stay here over the summer'

1. This drives me mad - pointing to any small luxuries/treats as evidence of our profligacy. So I have a massage for my neck once a fortnight. Manicures (one every three months always for work occasions) are also cited as evidence that we are not hard up!

'That's not the issue. You must do what we ask and pull your weight around the house if you're going to stay here over the summer'

Anne Dickson's books are great for advice on things like this - I would recommend either her general ones or Difficult Conversations.

Suda I know this is wrong and childish of me, but I would be very tempted to 'accidentally' put some prized possession of his in the bin and see how he likes it...You're a kinder person than me.

eighties chick - Yes I am sorely tempted believe me so not much nicer eh . Thing is he often implies I had something to do with it anyway if anything goes missing in his absolute tip of a bedroom - anything to score points against me to his dad - so my trail of thought could be - Im getting blamed - so why not

Thank you ladies! Lol at 'The Skip'. DS car is the mobile skip. It was immaculate when we got it for him, now it's got rubbish everywhere and stained seats and sticky gloop on all surfaces. Drinks? Ice cream? Who knows? But I did get a good quote for the car dealer today so that is one bright spot.

Suda, does your DSS leave food in his bedroom bin? Banana skins, yoghurt pots, MacDonalds, drinks spilt on the carpet, too? We had an ant invasion because of that. Clothes everywhere? Does he take other people's washing out of the tumble dryer and dump it anywhere? Does he take soap, toothpaste etc from your bathroom? Yes, DS scoffs all my chocolates. I now hide them in the wardrobe. Sometimes I hide food and find it weeks later. I have even resorted to hiding food in the boot of my car!

If he were not my son I would have left tbh. I can't imagine how you put up with it. I'm not defensive like your DH, I'm frankly embarrassed. DS has snarled at me in public, called me a fxxxing bitch just a few weeks ago and I want to disappear in shame. I could tell you a lot more about that and the blog where he wrote that he regarded his parents as 'pathetic and useless' amongst other things. He really is very awful and immature. BUT he can behave perfectly well if he wants something out of us, will spontaneously clean up the kitchen, that's when I know he will ask for something soon. Somehow, that makes it worse: knowing he CAN behave like a human when he wants to. Writing this and getting feedback has helped enormously. My problem is trying to keep the peace with DH. I feel I have to make it all right.

Eighties Chick you are so right. The less I engage with DS the better. I will get that book.

Thank you ladies! Lol at 'The Skip'. DS car is the mobile skip. It was immaculate when we got it for him, now it's got rubbish everywhere and stained seats and sticky gloop on all surfaces. Drinks? Ice cream? Who knows? But I did get a good quote for the car dealer today so that is one bright spot.

Suda, does your DSS leave food in his bedroom bin? Banana skins, yoghurt pots, MacDonalds, drinks spilt on the carpet, too? We had an ant invasion because of that. Clothes everywhere? Does he take other people's washing out of the tumble dryer and dump it anywhere? Does he take soap, toothpaste etc from your bathroom? Yes, DS scoffs all my chocolates. I now hide them in the wardrobe. Sometimes I hide food and find it weeks later. I have even resorted to hiding food in the boot of my car!

If he were not my son I would have left tbh. I can't imagine how you put up with it. I'm not defensive like your DH, I'm frankly embarrassed. DS has snarled at me in public, called me a fxxxing bitch just a few weeks ago and I want to disappear in shame. I could tell you a lot more about that and the blog where he wrote that he regarded his parents as 'pathetic and useless' amongst other things. He really is very awful and immature. BUT he can behave perfectly well if he wants something out of us, will spontaneously clean up the kitchen, that's when I know he will ask for something soon. Somehow, that makes it worse: knowing he CAN behave like a human when he wants to. Writing this and getting feedback has helped enormously. My problem is trying to keep the peace with DH. I feel I have to make it all right.

Eighties Chick you are so right. The less I engage with DS the better. I will get that book.

nomedoit - no he doesnt put anything in his bin cos I took it out as it was never used !! - he 's supposed to use kitchen one now. He just throws things or leave things on his bedroom carpet - which is minging - drink stains - yoghurt spills where empty yoghurt pots have tipped up with spoon in - sauce stains where knife or fork have tipped off plate which he just leaves on bedroom floor. I darent mention it cos conversation with DH always leads to his poor deprived DS needs a new carpet etc - as it is really beyond salvage. I always say no he doesnt - he needs to change his ways first -stop leaving pots, cups etc on his bedroom floor - which he still did even after I hired a carpet cleaner and blitzed it - a week later it was full of drink stains and mashed in food products again. My argument is that you dont reward this lack of respect/care of your surroundings with nice new replacements. You dont reward bad behaviour - in short. My DH thinks DSS might respect new carpet /re-decoration etc - bit like when they build nice parks etc for troubled kids I suppose - But I say do you mean like he did when I steam cleaned it. I do understand this concept of giving bad kids something to respect/take pride in etc etc and I dont know if maybe I am being unreasonable ?? feedback would be appreciated - sorry theres no way I want to hijack your post OP but I think our two dilemmas have much in common. My other reason for digging in my heels is he's 24 and to me things like new furnishings and redecorating are long term things ?? Id rather wait till he moves out - then blitz it all then it wont need doing twice - cos trust me I will have to rip out the lot and start again - too disgusting to attempt to just clean it up. I suppose also TBH I think my DH thinking long term about 'swamp thing' living with us just makes my heart sink. Sorry nomedoit - bet you wish you never asked !!

DS has been quite reasonable the last couple of days. So it was no surprise tonight when he dropped hints about needing money for textbooks. This is my realisation - that he can behave, that this isn't some kind of emotional angst-driven behaviour that he can't help. Somehow that makes it worse in some way...
Suda, I would not buy a new carpet! They have no investment in things we buy for them. I really feel if DS had worked and saved for his car that he would look after it more in the way other kids do. I didn't think any bedroom story could shock me! What does your DSS do all day? Does he have a job? He is too old for all this, isn't he, they both are.
Honestly, I think National Service would do my DS the world of good!!!

And mine -and to answer you question his timetable is very simiiar to your sons. He does work - he s just finished 7 years college after leaving school - IT. He does the absolute minimum hours courses that he has to do to get his attendance grant or whatever it is ! He keeps going back to college and signing up for more courses as its easier than getting a full time job - Ive heard him openly say this to people. So he only ever does pin money sort of jobs- bar work -shelf stacking etc. - as long as he's got enough money to lie in bed till 1 or 2 pm - unless he's working - and go out with his mates - buy games for his x box etc etc then he's happy !

Move house to one that hasn't got a spare room, job done

I'm not sure I agree with this for other reasons (long story for another thread) but

DH has 2 DS's (19 and 16). Plus ex wife has remarried and had another child (now 11). Eldest moved out to be with girlfriend, ex wife moved (although house same size)and youngest child given largest bedroom. Eldest split with girlfriend and moved back with Mum. 2nd DS finished boarding school and moved back with Mum.

Ex wife's DP had said that Eldest had get a full time job and move out as did not think 4 bed house big enough(!!) - he did nothing about it until 2nd DS moved back in and they put bunkbeds in a single bedroom for 2 DS's (imagine - 19 and 16 year old boys in a single bedroom). Within a couple of weeks Eldest had got a full time job and found a house share and moved out....

Don't necessarily agree with it but it appears to have worked...........

In answer to last two posts - my DH and I have got long term plans i.e. move to the country and rent out our current house which is good size town house in good area. One would more or less fund the other if you see what I mean. Also talked about running small B&B - again rural and again partly supplement our income from rent money from current property. What upsets me is we are both heading into middle age now - we met late in life - so I think time is even more precious than ever - yet DH has no urgency and seems to think we should just put it on hold until his DS leaves home of own accord - which if you read my previous points - well dont hold your breath put it that way. I think that is grossly unfair and is a real sticking point with us. I say well what if he decides to stay at home till he's 28 or 30 or more - will you just allow him to ? DH just says Oh Im sure he wont - Again I refer you to my previous points - I think he'll just amble along quite happily in his easy little life. I say to DH - you know we will never ever get these years back !! He says - get this it'll slay you !! - that I am being selfish. He says why should his DS have to move out / be chucked out before he's ready to leave naturally - I say why should he be the only person in the equation who matters - why should I or we have to wait to live our dreams / long term plans until his lordship deems he doesnt need to live with us anymore ??

Any tips on how to deal with the rudeness, sarcasm, contempt? Just had a little burst which I ignored totally. Thank God he goes off next week... Suda, if there wasn't an end in sight I would leave. And he's my son, as you know.
This thing about throwing them out? It's all very well saying, "You have to find your own place/stand on your own two feet/find somewhere else to live" etc. But unless I change the locks, my DS will turn up on the doorstep every holiday to the end of uni and probably beyond. The only thing that seems to work is the poster who referred to making life uncomfortable enough.

I cant find which poster said about making life uncomfortable - maybe posters have just said it in a round about way but anyway I started to try it the other day and it seems to work - Im not being cruel or unreasonable in any way - just basically thwarting him treating my house like his batchelor pad like I dont exist. Example - he always gets up about 1pm - has his breakfast - heads straight for the settee - the longest - and lies down - puts telly on full blast - sports or music channel - then lies there all afternoon. So last few days - as soon as I hear him stirring I plonk myself right in the middle of that settee and put something on telly that I like and he doesnt - I dont leave him with nowhere to go - there are other seats in the house and lets face it DSS or DH cant really ask me to move so he can lie down !! but he cant lie stretched out in front of the telly like he owns the place anymore. So what he's done is skulked off back to his room and eventually gone out - result - light at end of tunnel maybe ?? It obviously really pisses him off. Maybe we could swap ways of doing this - providing they're not dangerous, contrary to human rights charter or illegal.

They are related! I.00pm: big bowl of cereal, sports or MTV, mobile phone and laptop all arranged round the sofa...
I have thought along these lines. My problem is I live in a split level house (we are overseas) and DS basically has the run of the lower level - bedroom, bathroom and down-at-heel family room with old but big TV. It is like a little palace for him. All he has to do is walk up the stairs for food supplies. I'm upstairs with kitchen, other bedrooms, my office. I don't watch much TV and if I do watch it downstairs he takes himself off to our bedroom!
The thing that would really work would be cutting off the Internet. It's like mother's milk to DS. But both me and my DH are self-employed, I cannot work without it, so we have wireless all over the house - which is perfect for DS's social life and watching movies online!

PS - I think selling his car will be a big move forward because he will have to ask to borrow mine. I'm taking it into the dealer on Friday to get a price. We really need the money so fingers crossed...

and when he asks to borrow it i do hope you will say "no". Hide your keys too. As he has no respect for you he may not bother asking to borrow it and just take it anyway.

You could change the wireless password...

IAP - you know the situation. The last time we took DS's keys, he sneaked out in DH's car, drove 100 miles to where he wanted to be and left the car on the street. DH couldn't go to work, we had to drive down and get it. Since then DH has totally withdrawn. We both decided not to go to the police because God knows how DS will get a job, let alone with a criminal record for theft... You are EXACTLY right. He has no respect for us. Finding this thread v. helpful and I feel my backbone getting a bit firmer day by day.

I know its hard when precedents have been set but I think there should always be an invisible line - or even a more tangible one - i.e. a lock like I have! on your bedroom door especially as your DH is not his dad. We had this row in early days where DSS would just wander upstairs and walk in our bedroom when he felt like it to say something mundane to his dad. I was horrified - I felt as though - sound like a drama queen now - he had just violated the most private personal place in our relationship. My DP now my DH couldnt see problem !! as before I came on the scene DSS would just wander freely into his dads bedroom for socks/change for his busfare - whatever. I remember one occasion when I had just started to sleep with DP now DH at his house - DSS was around 18 or 19 and he knew full well I was sleeping in his dads room - I was lying there one morning and my DP had gone to work - DSS was going to college - HE ACTUALLY WALKED IN THE BEDROOM AND PROCEEDED TO GO THROUGH HIS DADS SOCK DRAWER !! He got some socks - I presume - after much leisurely rooting and out he went without so much as a cough, an apology nothing. I couldnt believe it was happening to be honest - I just lay there and pretended to be asleep. There is absolutely no way he didnt know I was there cos he'd been downstairs when we retired to bed night before and Id been sleeping there for weeks anyway and even if you gave him benefit of doubt there was no way he could fail to see me when he did come in. Is it me or does anyone else find that an incredible lack of respect and complete lack of recognition of my existence even. Its like he knows no - or refuses to acknowledge more like - boundaries. So when we bought our own house that was one thing I absolutely insisted on - took me about a year but DH finally relented and put a lock on our bedroom door. There was no way he wanted to but after a year of me insisting on it and various incidents he gave in. I really really think nomedoit that you should at the very least make your bedroom a no go area for him - even though he's your son so the embarrassment factors possibly not as high - but for your DH's sake as he probably finds this very intrusive. Its like how much space - what proportion of the house that we pay for - do they think they should have - is nothing sacred - well Im sorry but the marital bedroom at the very least bloody well should be. Again your DS and my DSS have something in common - they both have complete free use of one whole floor of the house - ours has his en-suite bedroom and all the other rooms on 'his floor' are communal - lounge kitchen dining room etc. Yet he thinks he should be allowed to wander freely around the little bit of the house that is ours - or supposed to be - aswell !! Its like your DS has a whole floor to himself - and thinks nothing of going into your bedroom - so he has 3 or 4 exclusive rooms to himself and has joint access to your kitchen and other 'communal' rooms on 'your floor' and you and DH only really have - or should have - exclusive use of one room - your bedroom - and he wants to trot around that aswell !! They've both got 90% territorial rights on OUR properties and are going for the 100% - methinks we should book in together me and you - get our heads tested

So what are you going to do??

You need to decide, action plan it with your DH (who may end up being your ex-DH if you don't get this sorted out), and roll it out..

Sorry to sound so harsh, but I get so annoyed when I read the many different threads on here and people are moaning and asking for advise. Then 6 months down the line they are still in the same situation.

What you do now with your son will have a profound effect on him and his future self - i.e will change him for a better person who is more likely to have a successful career, relationships etc then the way he is heading now.

Very best of luck xx

Not an answer to your question at all but I read this article today and thought it was interesting - seems that teenagers/young men have not changed much in hundreds of years!

here

Well I'm going to start by selling his car next week and not getting him any more money. I've also got a plan in motion to rearrange the house so that I take his big bedroom for my office and he gets the small room. In the longer term I'm trying to persuade Suda to live with me in a bijou little townhouse, tastefully decorated and nice and clean. The DH's and DS's live next door in a house named One Big Skip. There is an interconnecting doorway but the lock is on our side. They cook, clean and look after themselves. She and I read, watch the TV we like, cook delicious girly meals and have conversations in which we listen to each other and respond to the point the other person has just made. I pop out to the deli to buy us treats and gourmet ice-cream and we actually get to eat it...