DH labelling ice-cream in freezer

[nomedoit]

My son, aged 19, has been home for uni over the summer. He is a nightmare. Rude (really, you could say almost abusive to me), hostile, lazy, untidy, disorganized. My DH and I are both counting down the days til he goes back and I stop running a hotel for him. I've tried the whole boundary thing but nothing works, he is immune to it all. He made very little effort even to get a job. Honestly this the DS day:

1pm - get up
1.30 - large breakfast plus TV
4.00 - nap
5.00 - contents of fridge plus TV
7.00 - huge dinner
8.00 - go out to friend's house
4am - bedtime

Poor DH has withdrawn. Anyhow. tonight he has labelled some ice-cream he bought, 'Do not eat.' Because DS bloody eats everything. And I felt like crying. Labelling our food just seemed to symbolize how fractured our 'family' is.

This might not be what you want to hear, but I would tell your DS that next summer if he wants to live with you in the holidays he had to pay rent. If he doesn't want to do that he needs to find somewhere else to stay.

He sounds like he feels entitled to do whatever he wants and at 19, he needs to be learning this is not the case - the world doesn't owe him anything. Is your DH your DSs stepfather? Because if so, he will be struggling with this even more than you, but will probably feel unable to say anything.

I'm sorry you're going through this, but if it helps, your DS won't be 19 forever..

oh what a pain for you :(
I think rent is the way to go. or actually maybe 'expenses' - he can choose his own food and pay for it maybe?

Is he not your dh's son?

A lot of this is normal teenager stuff, but if you feel it somehow symbolizes the emotional state of your family, maybe a big open discussion between you all would help and I would really recommend family therapy.

Sorry, DH is step-father.

Charge him rent?

I think quite a few biological parents label things as "do not eat" when there are teenagers around!! I don't think it's a 'step-parent/step-child' issue, more a case of your son is being very inconsiderate. And if you find it tough, your husband will find it 100 times worse.

Thank you for all the comments. I did talk to DH this morning. I think he's right about the ice-cream. DS doesn't give a * about anyone else, that is the truth and DH is facing that fact.
Part of the problem is the feeling I have that I have to 'make it all better'. DH says I don't have to do this but the alternative is to leave the evidence of all DS's annoying habits out in the open which frustrates DH e.g. emptying packets of food and then putting the empty packet back in the cupboard... Trivial I know but symptomatic and repeated x 100.
I think it is easy to say, "make him to this that or the other." Believe me, I have set more boundaries than I can count. The issue is the consequence. How do you actually follow through? Has anyone done this? Let's say I charge him rent, then he doesn't get a job and doesn't pay, then I physically will have to remove him from the house because he definitely won't go of his own accord.
We could tolerate the mess, the eating, the laziness tbh. It is the hostility and rudeness which is the real problem. He acts as though I am his enemy when the truth is he's been spoiled and I have done everything for him for years. I masterminded the whole uni application thing, for example. My own childhood was dreadful and I bent over backwards to make him feel loved and supported. Seems I went too far the other way... I think he's jealous of DH who I married seven years ago, thinks were good at the start then went downhill when DS turned 14 and they got locked in this alpha male battle. We did try therapy but as soon as we stopped it all went back to chaos!

Things were good at the start, I mean

I am going through exactly the same thing with my 19 year old DS1, he hasn't started uni yet, but his day sounds very similar to your DS's. We have to label food or else hide it in the salad drawer,strangely he doesn't feel the need to eat everything in there He has been out of work on and off for the last year and has not paid a penny in rent, which has been so hard as I am a widow with 2 other children. He starts university in September and we will all be relieved when he goes I think. His brother and sister are also fed up of his selfish greedy behaviour.

I honestly think a lot of people are going through this with their older teens, they are lazy, inconsiderate and selfish and I just keep hoping that like all the other difficult stages we have been through to get them this far it is a phase which will pass. Can you get him to help round the house? DS1 is currently doing a list of chores to earn himself a lift to his friend's house

Evenstar - he does cut the grass (badly, in big stripes that miss bits in the middle but I am trying to concentrate on the positive and only look at the bits that have been cut). I have to say DS has got worse after the first year at uni. He's got the whole adult/independent attitude going on. I definitely would not have his home for the whole summer again but it suits him because he's in a free hotel!

Update: I have labelled the ice-cream

Some boys goes through a completely squalid phase until they grow up.

My brother used to be similar: come home from uni with a bag full of dirty washing in a bin-liner, presumably for me or my elderly great aunt to wash (ha) and disappear to his bedroom, resurface to hoover out a food cupboard (no thought to what/who it might be for) and then off out in the evening with friends. To say that we clashed over him and his similarly tosspot friends is an understatement.

Quite common to get males in the family clashing heads, and he were in the animal kingdom he be ejected from the group and would have to find his own way.

My dad refused to fund him in the holidays which rather limited him going out with his friends which meant he had to work. Admittedly he was offered a job by my Dad doing general labour/maintenance at a school but he was working with a group of men who took no prisoners (gave him some mucky jobs to do) and it made him grow up a bit.

What is his problem exactly? Is it the step-dad? Send him to his fathers next year. Is he living with other people term-time? Is he expecting to come a live with you after his course finishes? Is he far from home at uni and does he keep contact with old friends near you?

He is a bit old to be playing Kevin the stroppy teenager I think. He sounds like he needs a good, hard kick up the arse. He sounds like my brother at that age! Must be a 'boy thing'.

In answer to your second post I have considered putting him out at times over the past year. DS1 has repeatedly refused to get up at a reasonable time and has been selective about which jobs he would apply for, even though he knew I was struggling financially having to pay full council tax and feed him. We have had had many rows, in February he managed to find a job when I was actually on the brink of making him leave after he had sat at my lunch table and told me he wouldn't be applying for low paid jobs "I'm worth more than that" and told me I could get a second job if I was that hard up! I am not sure if I could have actually done it, but a friend who works at the council told me all I had to do was send him down there and for him to say he had been thrown out and had nowhere to go and they would have to house him.

No answers from me really, but at least he will be going back to university soon, and you need to have a full and frank discussion with him about the next holidays and how things need to change before he is welcome in your home. DS1 is not planning to live at home again as I am moving house to the next town and he wants to stay with a friend who lives here.

The other factor was that he had got in financial difficulties when he first lost his job and he was still living in the flat he had moved into, I knew he wouldn't get finance for university if he couldn't pay the debts off, so ended up feeling he must stay to achieve that and not throw away his future.

He definitely sounds like my brother. He and his friends just scoffed every bit of food my dad bought. It cost hundreds of pounds a month the amount they ate. He did nothing, was hostile, lazy, did drugs his friends were arseholes of the highest order.

My parents never have given him that kick up the arse and guess what - he's still living with them and sponging off them. I think you need to tell DS that he has to find somewhere else to stay next summer.

Wahwahwah - I think he's a bit old to be playing Kevin. I have had that thought many times.
Honestly, I think his problem is immaturity. He will mouth off about DH but as soon as there is a problem (like being done for speeding when he was 17) who does he call and who went to court with him? Yes, his horrible step-Dad.
DS definitely enjoys stirring it up. He has no desire, it seems to me, to live harmoniously. I think it is that pebble in the water thing - DS likes seeing the ripples. I suppose it must give him a feeling of power and importance. I think he enjoys confrontation. There must be a pay-off for him. It just leaves us feeling wiped out.
I am ashamed to tell you I pay for his mobile and car insurance. That needs to stop, doesn't it? I am positive he would have no problem with me going on the night-shift rather than get a job himself.
How do you get one of those sons who looks after Mum. Do you have to be Italian?

I was a * at this age too. All I cared about was seeing my friends and my day pretty much resembled your son's. All I can say is, I feel pretty bad about it now and a lot of it was to do with some major personal/ emotional problems I was having. I think I blamed my parents for all my bad feelings and because I resented them so much, I felt justified in being rude and hostile.

I'm 31 now and have a great relationship with my parents. In fact, from the minute I properly moved out and could live separately from them, things improved. It may not help to hear this but when he finally shakes that sense of entitlement he has (may take until he has his own children, ahem ) he will probably feel awful about how he behaved.

I'm really sorry you're going through this. If there is such a thing as karma, we are going to have some fun with the DSs during the teenage years, yikes. I don't know how you would change his behaviour- the only thing my parents didn't try was a calm conversation about it. Might be worth a go.

Register with one of those organisations that look for lodgings for foreign students over the summer while they are here learning English, then you can tell him that his room's being let to Pierre for the summer and he'll need to rent a room somewhere else.

Definitely tell him he can't stay with you next summer. And stop paying his car insurance and mobile phone contract! I had to pay my own way as soon as I was old enough to get a weekend job. He needs to grow up and take responsibility for himself. Fast. Once he's out on his own, buying his own food and working rather than sponging, I bet he will suddenly have a lot more respect for all the support you've given him!

What an awfulf situation, you poor thing.
Yes, hairymelons is right - maybe try to call a calm meeting (Though perhaps you have already tried..). Consider telling him his behaviour has been so dreadful that you and DH can't wait for him to go back to university (might be a shock! Assume he thinks you dote on his every whim). Tell him you are going to stop paying for his mobile, car insurance, food etc by a certain date (like the end of the week) if he doesn't stop being a selfish spoilt brat. Then do it. Where does the huge dinner come from? Does he cook it himself? If you do it, then do it no more. Or only cook meals/buy food he hates and look all surprised and forgetful when he says he doesn't like spinach bake. Naturally you don't do his washing, tidy his bedroom or keep his beer supplies topped up...

Definitely stop paying his car insurance and phone bill, they are luxuries that he cannot afford unless HE is working! He might still be able to get a job for the rest of the holidays if he can be bothered to get out of bed and losing the use of his car and his mobile might be just the incentive he needs.

Don't give him any actual cash either, I am trying to sort a few clothes out for DS1 to take to uni, but I am buying them for him, if I gave him the money he would just spend it on going out. Even his birthday present is new T shirts, and my mother is keeping his birthday money until he goes to uni so at least he will have something in his bank account.

Yes, I am not giving him money. I too Evenstar am getting him some basic clothes for his birthday which i will pay for (and get reward points on my credit card). I think we will be selling the car anyway because he hasn't organized a student loan and I am damned if I am paying for uni. I got him up this morning to get that organized. He assumes I will pay of course and I have told him categorically I won't.
DH and I are both self-employed, both work six days a week and then do things around the house on Sunday. Oh, and there is this thing called a global recession.
I worked from when I was 13. Cleaning, babysitting, behind the checkout, making sandwiches etc. I cannot get my head round the fact that he doesn't get a bloody job to have some money. But he seems to exist on very little, hangs out at his friends mostly.

We have tried umpteen calm meetings. He just has this knack of winding us up. He's very clever, manipulative and he could argue for an Olympic medal. Here are some of the tactics:

1. Talking over us
2. Going into victim mode e.g. 'I have good grades, why can't I do anything to please you?' Sign. Martyred look.
3. Going into aggressive mode
4. Going into 'you don't understand how hard my life is' mode
5. Flatly denying everything we say
6. This drives me mad - pointing to any small luxuries/treats as evidence of our profligacy. So I have a massage for my neck once a fortnight. Manicures (one every three months always for work occasions) are also cited as evidence that we are not hard up!

It is not his business how I spend my money but any discussion of his finances becomes about mine! It's almost impossible to stay on track, he just deviates away from any discussion about him.

It sounds like a terribly stressful situation for you and DH.

My DS1 is 17. Last Summer DP (Stepfather to DS1 & DS2) and I stopped giving him money. We paid for clothes/food/college travel and anything college related but said that if he wanted to go out with friends then he'd have to find the money to do it as our pockets were not bottomless.

He didn't like it and said that NONE of his friends had to get a job but we didn't back down and within days he had a job. He has kept that job, working during holidays and some weekends, for a year now and has loved the freedom of having his own money and not having to account for what he's spending it on.

Is cutting the purse strings something you could consider doing?

Absolutely Harvey. That is my main tactic now! Also, if we sell the car he really will be marooned here and more likely to find somewhere else to live/work next summer.