The Rolling Football Thread: Season 2025/26

[DuncinToffee]

"Football is a game of mistakes. Whoever makes the fewest mistakes wins."

@JasonTindallsTan

You said so if contracts aren’t worth the paper they’re written on then why bother having them?

They are to protect the club so that the player cannot just leave on a free.

Would you sign an employment contract where you had to stay with your employer for 6 years regardless of whether you wanted to stay there or not?

Football clubs and especially fans have to understand that for most footballers it is just a job just like my job is just a job and your job is just a job.

Unless the footballer is devoted to the club like Alan Sheerer (and perhaps Saka), they are going to want to go to the club which they think will further their career. And I don't think that Saka should stay at Arsenal if he doesn't want to, any more than I should stay in my job if I want to leave.

Why on earth would Newcastle want to keep a player who doesn't want to play for them? If NC has been reasonable, then Isak might even have wanted to carry on once he realised that the grass wasn't necessarily greener.

I was annoyed when Arsenal let Obi go to United, but then I realised that they did the right thing. We don't want players like him who would rather play at United.

So you’re suggesting that if a player says he wants to go then he should be allowed to leave, no questions, for whatever someone is willing to pay for him, even if that’s a fraction as to what the club values him at and they have no one else to play in his position?

If that’s the case then we’re never going to agree. Alexander Isak has not been treated badly by Newcastle United Football Club, they’ve said he can leave if two conditions are met which will ensure his leaving (whilst having three remaining years on his contract) does not considerably weaken us whilst strengthening a direct rival, but I know how you feel about them so it’s unlikely we’ll ever see this from the same perspective.

And the very clear difference between my contract or your contract at work is the conditions under which we may leave the job are written into the contract eg, 1 week/month etc notice. If we fail to abide by those conditions then there are sanctions by way of forfeiting pay etc just as there are in some contracts for sharing info with competitors or stealing clients which have the effect of weakening the company position. Alex and his agent failed to put any such clause or condition in regarding how he might get out of the contract early so now he is resorting to kicking up a fuss because he doesn’t want to do the job he is contracted to any longer. Fine. But there are consequences to that.

And the one thing he hasn’t done is submit a formal transfer request. Because that would cost him. So please do me a favour with the analogies. He has behaved incredibly badly and if you’d take your red tinted glasses off for just a second you would see the NUFC business side of this. As for why we’d want to keep a player who doesn’t want to play for us, because backing down and letting him get his own way at the detriment of the club just opens the floodgates for others to do the same, the club will be seen as a soft touch, sign a contract, doesn’t matter they’ll let you fuck it off if you create enough fuss, they’ll even do it if it screws them over. Cant you see how that isn’t a good look?

Cant you see how that isn’t a good look?

@JasonTindallsTan But it isn't just happening to NC. So many players have downed tools this transfer window (including Victor when he wanted to join us). Players have realised how much power they have and are using it.

Yes, I don't like NC because Eddie Howe encourages his players to act as thugs but my I am not wearing red tinted glasses, I would say this about any club.

NC are just unfortunate that Isac has done this, next transfer window it could be us but I still think that NC have handled it badly and made it very difficult for Isak to be re-integrated back in to the team.

But I don’t think it benefits Newcastle to keep him - players must look at this and put them off going - because like it or not only really Real Madrid and Barcelona can be considered end game end game. Even Arsenal/Liverpools pull goes so far

There are football arbitrators and I think could be used in situations like this to ensure that a reasonable price is placed as well

it is just an absolute mess - even worse than Berbatov from Spurs to Manchester United. Interestingly Spurs did put a Premier League complaint in then the fact that Newcastle haven’t for me says that Liverpool contact was within the normal range

As I said I think the Saudi owners aren’t used to not having full control in negotiations and there is no current middle man. They are hampered by financial regulations in terms of wages as well

since the Bosnan ruling the issue of player contracts has been one huge hot potato. So now they have to introduce loyalty payments and so on to keep the players they sign. And a 6 year contract is effectively a 4.5 year contract because after the winter transfer window the year before the contract expires, the club have to start looking around for a buyer and a replacement.

That's all well and good and worked relatively well until the money went really stupid. I remember Aubamayang (?) going on strike at Dortmund and at the time i was thinking the best thing a club can do now is take him off the transfer listings, bench him for the rest of the season (and he gets zero or 1 or 2 minutes playing time) and accept that they will lose out on transfer fees. Big clubs can absorb that. And it teaches the player a lesson: they don't get to arse about. The clubs are already held to ransom by players, and one or two of the big ones playing hardball might lead to a bit of a course correction.

Having said that: this is normal employment, and everyone needs to do their part. The players are required to keep levels of fitness, attend training and (as any other employee with a contract anywhere) do their best to achieve their employers' goals (winning matches, basically)

I don't expect emblem kissing and "oh i used to sleep in a [insert name of club here] quilt cover" type of stuff. But i do expect a bit of loyalty to their employer / employee. And football is special: you can't just discount the fans feelings, even if they don't feature (as they shouldn't) in your decision making.

Sheffield Wednesday beat Bolton on penalties last night. Not sure how i feel about that, i think they may be ought to concentrate on the league this year. Staying up. OTOH if we get a massive points deduction, any and all matches are income. Also 3,000 Wednesday fans at that match. Cool

There was also the Lassana Diarra judgment last year that whilst argued on a fairly unique technical point made it very clear that footballers are workers just like any other and it is expected new regulations will follow. It was made quite clear FIFA cannot overrule the labour rules of the EU

it would take a brave player with nothing to lose to push this which is why Bosman and Diarra are unknown players. But I do think it is potentially possible Isak could because I think this isn’t about moving to Liverpool anymore but his relationship with Newcastle

@Brefugee i think a home game against Leeds is definitely worth it

(dirty) Leeds, is that our next round? eek. But yes, always worth it.

I think there is a fine line to tread between exploiting (mostly young) players and overreach by older ones who think they are owed much more than they already get/have.

Getting to the age of 29 as a forward is always going to be dodgy, ideally you need to sign a good long contract at 27 or 28 and then you can "retire" by going to a less stressful club/position. Goalies, of course, have longer.

I am always slightly unnerved by all talk of buying/selling players. It just feels - urgh. But clubs like Gladbach really make a lot of their money by having excellent schools/youth training set ups and selling them on as 18 year old talent with percentage cuts in further sales down the line. It all feels a bit - meh.

@Tiswa You make a good point re Newcastle not having put in a complaint against Liverpool, which suggests there has been no dodgy conduct on Liverpool's part. We have already seen this season with the thwarted Gibbs-White move from Forest to Spurs that this measure does have teeth.

@JasonTindallsTan I don't think your theory that Liverpool told Isak to sit tight while we got Ekitike and then we'd come and get him makes any sense at all. Buying the player Newcastle might have replaced Isak with just means it would be even harder to get Newcastle to sell Isak! I suspect the reason Isak acted out after we bought Ekitike is precisely because he thinks if Newcastle had been willing to negotiate with Liverpool on a fee for him, then a deal could have been achieved and Liverpool wouldn't have bought Ekitike. Remember, Newcastle didn't say to Liverpool that they'd be willing to consider a bid closer to their valuation - they just outright said no, he isn't for sale full stop. Then, both Newcastle and Liverpool went for Ekitike and he opted for Liverpool. I don't understand the criticism of Liverpool about this: we made an offer, Newcastle didn't want to negotiate, so we bought someone else. That happens all the time, in every transfer window. It's not Liverpool's fault if Isak threw a strop about it.

As others have said, it's an absolute mess all round. You don't want to keep players who don't want to play for you anymore (we have had that over the years with reluctantly selling our star players like Torres, Suarez and Coutinho because when they are set on leaving, that's it really). However, I do have sympathy with Newcastle in that you don't just let them go for any old price. The media frenzy is always unhelpful, of course, but it doesn't sound as though either Newcastle or Isak have handled this well. Who knows what is happening between Isak and Newcastle behind closed doors?! From what Eddie Howe has said in public, it all sounds pretty toxic, which is sad to see.

And, of course, as usual I blather on like a draft of War and Peace while @Tiswa sums it up beautifully in one sentence:

"I think this isn’t about moving to Liverpool anymore but his relationship with Newcastle"

@burblish Liverpool did t make a move for Isak until after they’d signed Ekitike. Whilst we were moving for Ekitike the party line was he was coming to play alongside Isak. Only at the time once Ekitike had gone to Liverpool did Isak then say he wanted to explore his options and the media frenzy begun. Isak isn’t for sale in the traditional sense of us wanting to shift him on but Newcastle have always been clear once Liverpool took an interest that he could go for 150 mill and once we have a suitable replacement or no dice. The reports suggest that Newcastle were really surprised therefore when Liverpools offer came in at such a low price, particularly as they had supposedly discussed behind closed doors a higher figure as an opening bid.

Evidently we have very little idea of what goes on behind closed doors but I’d be interested to know how others feel Newcastle could have behaved better in this situation.

Yes, I agree with this and I don't think that Eddie Howe is a nice guy which has not helped and Isak seems to be one of the only players at NC who is not thuggish.

Add in the Saudi owners who are used to getting exactly what they want and the whole situation has turned toxic.

I read about the Diarra judgment a lot as I was editing a competition journal at the time and I read up about it and I got the sense FIFPRO are keen to take on a more high profile case to push how much player rights within a contract exist

I don’t think Liverpool did anything other than have Isak as top target Newcastle said no so they move on. Selling Darwin Nunez was always the plan having to buy two to replace Jota was not

😂😂😂😂

@JasonTindallsTan I stand corrected - I've checked the timing and you're right, we bought Ekitike and then put in an unsuccessful official bid for Isak. However, the media were reporting our interest in both Ekitike and Isak, and Isak's desire to leave Newcastle, weeks before that. I still can't see the basis for any conspiracy theory, or why any blame attaches to Liverpool for the apparent breakdown in Isak's relationship with Newcastle.

As you say, none of us really know what has happened behind the scenes or the timing of anything that has gone on. Newcastle are in a very unenviable position. None of us would want this to happen with the clubs we support, but it does happen.

In terms of how Newcastle could have behaved better, we obviously don't know if there is any truth in Isak having signalled a wish to leave earlier or having been made promises that weren't honoured - it's all media speculation likely underpinned by an assumption that for such a spectacular rift to develop, there must have been missteps of some kind on both the player and club's part.

I have to say I don't think Eddie Howe's public pronouncements will have helped the situation. I get he/Newcastle want to reinforce that the club is bigger than the player, diva behaviour won't be tolerated etc, but why do so publicly in a way that will clearly just make it harder to bring the player you want to keep back into the fold?

The problem with Saint Edward of Howe's comments is that not only do they further open the rift between player and club, but it also has the effect of, in practical terms, lowering the player's value.

If you're saying that the player is unprofessional and not training with the first team, why would someone then stump up the full asking price for damaged goods?

@JasonTindallsTan where was it he could go for 150m I thought that was seen as the minimum to get them thinking but not the mark he could go at and him not being for sale was quite clear

and if that is the case when Liverpool low ball bid came in I expected negotiations a return of you give me 150 plus add ons with a package of around 130 m plus add on to 150 to be agreed

because I don’t think he is worth 150 m

Isak took part in the promotional videos etc for our new kit, travelled on a preseason trip to Austria etc and for all the world did not look like a man who hated the club/the manager/everything associated with the place. We signed Elanga and it was about how he and Isak would recreate their international partnership up top etc.

In a very very short space of time he has gone full scorched earth and destroyed his legacy. He scored the winning goal in a cup final bringing a domestic trophy to the club for the first time in 70 years. He would have been revered throughout history as a Newcastle player and now? Well. I don’t know what the future holds but it will never be the same even if he does stay.

I accept the argument that Eddie Howe’s comments could be seen to have inflamed the situation but he was very much stuck between a rock and a hard place. And if Isak didn’t want a fiery situation then he and his agent have done absolutely nothing but stoke the flames by leaking things to the media, refusing to travel to Asia and then fecking off to his old club to train.

But he still hasn’t put a transfer request in.

But we haven’t been able to sign a replacement! We’re not going to negotiate a price on the sale of a player we can’t replace that we don’t want to sell! It has been clearly stated that now we know Isak wants to go and is determined to do so we will reluctantly sanction IF we can replace him beforehand and IF a suitable bid of circa 150 million is received.

We have tried and failed to sign a replacement at this time. To negotiate Isak’s sale before doing so would be self harm on the grandest scale.

I think we can all agree that Isak is not making himself look good at all!

It's interesting to contrast with the Luis Diaz situation. Diaz gave hints in the media that he wanted away and must have signalled the same to the club, who neither wanted nor needed to sell him after his best season for us. Bayern bid, we said he wasn't for sale. He then went on our Asia pre-season tour, did promos etc. Nonetheless, Diaz must have reiterated to the club that he was set on leaving. Liverpool accepted the player didn't want to be with us anymore, and agreed a deal with Bayern over a weekend (sensibly leaving Diaz out of a pre-season match on the Saturday while negotiations were going on, to avoid any risk of him getting injured). Bayern put in a revised bid, we accepted, Diaz left. We didn't want to lose him but that's business and a situation that happens all the time and at all clubs (except maybe to Real Madrid and Barca!). If Liverpool had held fast in refusing to let Diaz go, I would dearly hope he wouldn't behave in the way Isak has!

Spurs wouldn’t sell Kane to City, he missed training and the start of the season if I recall correctly but they held firm. Reintegration can happen. But whether it does on this occasion is 🤷🏼‍♀️

But Spurs' manager was not EH. I know that you don't want to hear it but I think EH is the problem because he is not a nice decent guy.

Yes I know you hate Eddie Howe. I can only assume he has shagged your partner or something because literally everybody else in the footballing and wider world thinks he’s a stand up fella and doesn’t have a bad word to say about him but you do you. I don’t know what you want me to say, neither of us know him personally as far as I’m aware so why your opinion means anything when set in the wider context of everyone else in the industry, many of whom who have worked with or know him personally suggests otherwise 🤷🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️

In fact I’d go as far to say as your baseless obsession with Eddie Howe being a cunt is absolutely barking mad. But again. We all have opinions.

We do. And your opinion that he is some kind of wingless angel is as bemusing to the rest of us...

Yep. That’s exactly what I’ve said 🙄🙄

Lunatics.

Anyway, we are never going to see eye to eye, to be frank you have goaded and baited me across the footballing threads for a long time now and I’m fucking bored of it. I will not engage with either of you any further and I’d really. Really. Appreciate it if you would do me the same courtesy.