The Goose and Carrot July Edition

[Lougle]

All welcome, and everything disappears after 90 days.

@Lougle Belated Happy Birthday to DD2.

And a late happy birthday to dd2 from us too @Lougle (though don’t mention it if she’s birthdayed out, it can just be a little wave of good vibes from this direction).

I’d love a meet up Mondays or Thursdays are easiest though we could organise elsewhere so we don’t clog up the pub with the details?

Ds very upsetty last night so my head feels like it needs coffee this morning. No sign of blasted mouse.

@Wellzizizbetter yep, let's arrange off MN. Realistically, until the end of August, I won't know what my weeks look like. In the remaining holidays, I could meet on a Monday or Thursday, but in term time I'm likely to be doing college runs, so harder in the week. That said, I think DD2's course might be only 3 days per week, so it could change.

Don't you just love the way education providers think you're sitting on a shelf, twiddling thumbs and waiting to launch?

The thing that drove me to fury each year was the total inability to share dates, times, locations. Infuriating and lost me a HUGE amount of money over the years because funnily enough you do have to know when you can work. It also deprived ds of a huge number of experiences and places in out of school activities, and ruined the beginning of the school year for him and his siblings. There is no excuse. It’s pure incompetence and laziness.

☕️

We all went to a nearby monument and really enjoyed watching the eclipse though I didn't drink enough (ironic given this conversation) and ended up feeling faint.
@LathkillDale I had a sync problem with MFP and I just told it to take steps from Google Fit and let my phone measure steps. I now have a Withings watch which it is compatible with.

Just had a mad dash round town to find the holiday club - DS was very nervous about going to the cinema with them ("I don't want to see stupid Spiderman") but with loads of reassurance and just standing there saying nothing we got him to club only to find they'd walked into town already so I dashed back and got him and dropped him as close as I could and DH walked him in from there.
He's really taken to the leaders but I'm not sure how keen they are on him!
DD has gone to an amusement park with her club as well.

DH got a call to say he wanted to come home, but apparently he'd been talking too much and disturbing people.
Well, he tried! He asked on the way home if he could go back and see the rest of it but we will get him to go with DD or DH instead.

DS1 had a pre-op for his operation on his hip today. They will do a few other bits while he is under.

Has anyone read the case Blackburn with Darwen Borough Council v AD [2026] EWHC 2148 (Fam)?

I had not but this stands out "Repeated reliance upon a lack of engagement as an explanation for limited intervention sits uneasily alongside the extraordinarily serious risks documented by multiple professionals over an extended period."
In a much milder way, this is the frustration we come across with DS. He says no, they say he isn't engaging, they get to both blame him and not bother doing their job.

(Summary by judge - pull your blooming finger out).

IMO, there should be no place for unregulated providers for vulnerable, complex children/ young people/adults.

There should be long stay, multi disciplinary team led units for people with severe mental health problems, and possibly other ADHD/ASD/neuro-developmental conditions.

It’s like my grandfather said in the 60s

”Some people cannot cope with living independently. They need to live in a hostel, attached to a farm, where they can do work experience”

He did forensic pathology and probably examined the bodies of people, who had committed suicide; and his nephew committed suicide with schizophrenia in the 60s.

A case where there are no easy answers. Yet 3:1 care in a general hospital setting by a revolving door of 3:1 security clearly isn’t the right placement either.

A case at the more extreme end of SEN, but looking wider it is a familiar underlying story across the country for too many.

Too many parents will be as described in paragraphs 4-5

“4.Before turning to the issues arising today, I wish to say something about AD's mother.

5.It is impossible to read this material without recognising both the depth of her concern for her son and the burden she has carried over a very considerable period. The evidence demonstrates that she has repeatedly sought help, repeatedly advocated for AD and repeatedly attempted to keep him safe in circumstances which would have overwhelmed many parents. She has plainly reached the point at which she has felt unable to continue safely caring for him. But that does not demonstrate parental indifference. Quite the reverse. It demonstrates a parent confronting the painful reality that love alone cannot manage risks of the magnitude presented by this child.”

Too many situations could be summed up similar to #42.

“42.He is a child with serious needs, a frightened family, exhausted professionals and a future which remains alarmingly uncertain. “

Too many will have experienced professionals passing the buck that is highlighted in #23, 25, 35 of the judgement.

“23.Reading this material as a whole, one is left with the uncomfortable impression that mental health services have been rather more successful in explaining why they cannot help than in explaining how they will help.

25.Of particular concern is the repeated emphasis placed upon questions of consent, engagement and willingness to participate in services. The Court has before it evidence from one part of the system asserting that AD lacks Gillick competence in relation to these issues, whilst other evidence concludes the opposite.

35.Once again, this Court finds itself confronted by a case in which every professional agrees that a child faces extraordinary risks, every professional agrees he requires intensive support, yet there is no coherent agreement regarding who bears ultimate responsibility for ensuring that such support is delivered.”

@LathkillDale in this case, I highly doubt a placement alongside others would be appropriate even if it was a specialist unit.

@inthequietofdawn I hope pre-op went well. It's great that they can combine procedures.

I have read the judgement. It's so profoundly sad. Even those words seem inadequate.

Thanks @LathkillDale DS won't take any tablets but he seems to manage the lactose intolerance OK, its fine when he's at home as he has his own bathroom. Well he took over a bathroom.

Thanks @Lougle You have been so efficient yesterday, very impressive, hope you get a well deserved rest at some point.

35C here today but wasn't too bad - we went out in the garden to RHS Hyde Hall to get plants so had air conditioning in the car, was slow there and back due to heavy traffic but nice to get out of house and in this weather prefer to choose plants where I can see them. We will plant them tomorrow morning and also get fresh bread and cinnamon buns from the bakers. We did a quick tidy of downstairs today but need to do it more tomorrow morning. I don't think the council planning lady will come in the house as she said unaccompanied garden visit initially.

Re meeting up can normally do any day of the week but may not be able to do overnight unless we can get DD to cover the night but can work around that. I think Sunday night / Mondays are often cheaper in hotels.

You are right @Lougle. There are no words.

Thanks. Pre-op went OK. DS1 needs bloods to finish it off, which will hopefully be taken next week when his port is accessed. Fingers crossed it bleeds. I’m always grateful for the hospital arranging multiple procedures at once. Although it is also in the hospital’s best interest too.

I thought paragraphs 23 & 35 summed up all of our experiences to a greater or lesser degree:

"23. Reading this material as a whole, one is left with the uncomfortable impression that mental health services have been rather more successful in explaining why they cannot help than in explaining how they will help.

35. Once again, this Court finds itself confronted by a case in which every professional agrees that a child faces extraordinary risks, every professional agrees he requires intensive support, yet there is no coherent agreement regarding who bears ultimate responsibility for ensuring that such support is delivered."

@LathkillDale, related to your post, did you see the news earlier this month about the first unregistered children’s home provider in England to be successfully prosecuted?* *

I'm so happy with how DD2 has embraced the new system. She's added 3 different things to her routine list. Today, after messaging me to say that she was completely wiped out from yesterday so she thought she wouldn't be able to do her routine, I came home from sorting DD1's Universal Credit at the jobcentre to find that she had done all of her morning routine and also done one of the optional tasks that she finds really difficult.

I've also learned that I can set multiple rewards, which is brilliant. So they can choose to redeem their stars quickly for a small reward, or bank them towards a bigger reward.

Something amazing just happened. Firstly, DD1 came to me and said 'You'll be happy....I sorted my laundry without being asked.' That was great.

BUT

DH called me to the lounge window earlier. He had spotted DD3 in the garden. She was at the washing line, painstakingly folding laundry as she removed it from the line, and putting it in a bag. Then she hoisted the bag over her shoulder and tottered back to the house.

Never have I ever seen such a thing from her.

Yes, coincidentally I read an article on it this morning. About time too!

However, I do not see where AD could go? IMO, a CAMHS PICU would be better than a children’s ward in a general hospital. I can’t see any bespoke provision, being set up overnight, especially with the difficulties of getting good staff?

DD1’s care home struggles with staffing, with a 30% turnover of staff, and they are the market leaders in their county for pay. St Elizabeth’s adult residential care was closed down by the CQC, because of staffing shortages.

Most of the inpatient MH units DD2 has been in, have had bored disinterested staff, clearly only there for the money. She would have died in one of them, due to neglect of a physical health condition, if both of us hadn’t spent 6 hours on the phone to get her out of there, so we could take her to A & E! A young person did die there subsequently and we weren’t surprised.

There are more cuts on the way for some mental health services.

I have heard a local police officer say, that they get a list of CYP runaways to find in the morning. When they find one, the social worker just takes them back home, no matter how bad it is, because they have nowhere else to put them. If CYP prefer to sleep outdoors in the rain, than in their home - what does that tell us?

I’ve initiated JR against Adult SS and the ICB. The ICB was the harder of the two - the lawyers had a complaint to the Ombudsman thrown out, and they refused to proceed with JR the second time, even though we had valid grounds, because they doubted we could win, because there was no previous case law.

@Lougle that’s amazing. I hope you aren’t having difficulties with UC.

@LathkillDale from what I have read about the case, I disagree that PICU would be a better placement for AD.

If it were that simple, I doubt the case would have received the attention it has. The latest hearing was following “the breakdown of yet another carefully constructed placement” where AD “has exhausted one highly specialised placement after another." And #45-46 of the judgement says, “The central question remains the same as it has throughout these proceedings: how can this young person be kept safe whilst receiving meaningful therapeutic help? Disturbingly, despite many months of intervention and many hundreds of pages of evidence, the Court is still unable confidently to answer that question.”

This is a family division case rather than the administrative court.

However, what could the court order? It seems to me, the judge was saying there was nothing he could do?

@LathkillDale that is the point. There isn’t an easy answer for some DC with very complex needs.

Although the Judge sets out the limitations of the Courts and how some DC with very complex needs don’t fit neatly into the current frameworks, the Judge isn’t saying there is nothing he can do. There will be further input from the Court, that is why he has Ordered the ICB be party to proceedings.

We've just had a really tough psychology appointment. It's hard when your child is sobbing and begging to be taken to hospital because they don't feel safe at home.

I don’t fancy AD’s chances, unless his mother has her wits about her!

So sorry @Lougle I hope there's a way to make DD1 feel less worried.

Just trying to get ready for the council here but they haven't given us a time, just 1.30pm to 5pm. We have cleaned and tidied downstairs though DS was in the downstairs bathroom but we cleared / quick cleaned that yesterday and then we did the garden. We took DSs cushions and duvets out of the shed, I hope he's not going to readd them and himself.