Have a meeting with LA

[claw3]

LA have refused SA and have now phoned and requested a meeting with me on Monday. (I am taking it to Tribunal)

What can i expect?

Im assuming they will be trying to talk me out of SA, what kind of offers are they likely to make?

Claw - I just wanted to add a few of things to Star's advice.

Firstly, as you know, my DS presents in a rather similar fashion to yours. He certainly presents differently in different settings. By this I mean, he would rather say nothing than scream about a problem like he would at home. It grates massively when school say things like 'we don't see that here' as if it's my fault. However, this does not mean that specialists in ASD think that. This is CLASSIC behaviour from a child at the high end of the spectrum. They 'hold it together' at school and will often only act in a 'normal' way at home or will only express their anxieties at home. School do not understand the school-home continuum and how one affects the other and that is the problem you have. It does not mean the ASD specialists won't understand this and make recommendations for a clearer/more relaxed environment for your DS at school.

Secondly, remember too that the ASD team have seen your DS and will have made their own minds up without school's input but that the protocol says they should take school into account. You can't go through observations with them scoring your child and picking out the problem areas for them not to see that the child has functional deficits in social communication. To be frank, they may have spent more 1:1 time with him than the teacher!

Thirdly, many ASD children can be more comfortable with the routine of school at times. Real life is not school with set breaks, lunch times, places to sit. It is no wonder children can appear different at times especially when they learn to follow a routine.

Fourthly, ASD teams ALWAYS hide behind panel. They are scared of doing/saying anything alone. Don't read too much into that.

Don't know if any of that helps??

Also, I am bemused by your school's attitude to IEPs. Why on earth is he on one if they think there are no problems? I think it is quite bizarre to reel off a list of 'mum says...' reasons for an IEP. School puts children on an IEPs because they believe they have SEN which need to be met by specific provision, not because parents want their child on an IEP.

To say that he is on IEP but there are no problems is a nonsense.

claw 3, have been in your position where for years the LA have pushed the view that there was nothing wrong with our son, and that the problem was with us-despite Health and CAMHS saying otherwise.
We discovered this, when we did a subject access request for everything.
Things are now moving in the right direction for our ds, but in some respects it is too little too late-the damage has been done.
It is soooo hard to rise above all the shite and mind-games the school and LA play isnt it? Sometimes it makes you feel like you are going mad. And, all anyone wants is the best for their dc.
Starlight is right-gather evidence for the tribunal and do not let school or LA know what you intend to argue.
Every bit of evidence you can find, where the school has indicated problems-even if they contradict themselves, highlight it and use it. Going through all our files, we found the LA would often contradict themselves not only on the same page, but in the same paragraph!!
Try not to worry re what the ASD person said in e-mail. Hes right, that the more opinion there is, the better. Hes also right, in that whether the school agree or not, many ASD dc do display different behaviours in different settings.
It has become a power struggle between you and the school and LA-they have taken a particular stance and do not want to shift from that-of course their right-they are the "professionals".BS!
Keep on, but maybe take the weekend off to re-charge your batteries.
Oh, and soiling can also be a sign of distress in ASD dc, and not just "not being toilet trained" as the school seem to think. If, they will not acknowledge your ds is soiling in school, each day you pick him up,(take clean underwear and trousers with you), and change your ds in school and hand the dirty pants and trousers to teacher/TA/Head and ask how long your ds has sat in soiled clothes and how they are going to address the problem. This is one issue you could take to Governors, as it does not look good on school, to "neglect" your ds by leaving him uncared for in soiled clothing.

Sorry, am I right in reading that school are being invited to the diagnostic panel meeting? That sounds bizarre. I think, in this area, that panel meeting is attended by an ed psych but school seemed to have little understanding of it.

Thanks Debs, im in the middle of writing to the school in response to the IEP. Its giving me a headache, its all so conflicting, it hurts my head to think about it!

I like your 'School puts children on an IEPs because they believe they have SEN etc' you have put it into words for me.

I need a bit of help with the wording of this little gem please

"He has used his pass card to speak to Mrs X when he becomes anxious at playtime, although he will now find Mrs x without needing to show his card. Ds still finds it difficult to explain incidents on the playground clearly"

So how the fuck does he speak to mrs x then, how does mrs x establish that he is anxious and what is the bloody point of speaking to her, if he cannot explain clearly? thats what i feel like writing, but obviously i cant!

You could say that it is good that small steps are being made to assist DS with his acknowldged social communication problems in that he is happier making contact with a teacher. You would very much like to know how this can be developed as there are still clear problems with articulating needs once initial contact has been made.

Bigpants, thank you i do feel like im going mad. At the moment everything seems to be happening at once and im having trouble keeping on top of it if im honest. It just seems to be one thing after the other. I have a weekend off and my to do list just gets longer and longer!

Although i am learning that i need time out to think straight and to try and keep a sense of humour!

Sorry yes DEBS, school have been invited to DX meeting. I was originally asked if i wanted them to be invited and i agreed, thinking it was just a lack of understanding on their part and they would benefit from meeting experts.

Its more recently that i have discovered they are actually telling outside agencies that they dont think ds has ASD and i saw on copy of ds's school file what they had written about me!

Perhaps you should tell the ASD person that the school's file was very worrying and mention their comments and that their ASD knowledge is very low?? I don't know what do you think. I'm a bit of a 'get it all out in the open' type of person.

To be honest, they don't put children on dx lists here unless they think they are on the spectrum somewhere. It is probably the same with you.

Debs, Mrs X told me during a meeting in Feb that ds has not used his card and hasnt been to see her since October 2009 and even if he did go and see her he cant explain, so why would he go and see her!

I told you it was so conflicting it makes your head hurt!

My eyes are bleeding, im going to stop for something to eat i think

I think that is the point though Claw... even if he is speaking to someone (which is disputed) he is not communicating his needs and even school are acknowledging that.

So put that on the list of things you and school agree on rather than see it as a dispute about who says what.

You can phrase is in a way which confirms that you don't believe him seeking out a named person has become a regular occurence or something he is particularly comfortable in doing so that needs extra work. In addition, as all parties agree that even if he seeks someone out, he is not communicating, not much progress is being made in that regard (and communicating needs is surely the real issue). Could you then suggest specialist advice be taken on progressing this from the EP who has been asked to see him?

Claw

Hi

I disgree with having school at the dx meeting.

It won't be a fair and considered dx if they are still maintining there is nothing wrong. And they will be listened to.

I would withdraw my consent for school to be present.

TBH if he has ASD then it will stand out a mile at the assessment without school needing to be there.

You don't need those idiots there disagreeing with everything that's said.

Claw
Sorry to post again

Who exactly comprises this ASD assessment service ?

From your post it implies that they dx but as they go on to say that they also assist school in drawing up Action Plan it implies they are educationalists?

If they are not Clinical Pyschs I would tell them to taking a flying fuck.

Also agree - if you can afford it now is the time to get a private dx. It does carry weight.

Star
I don't care what MAA guidelines say - they are just another psuedo crappy ancronym substituting for a considered diagnosis by a competent person.

All this ADOS / CGIOBH/ HFDR test make me absolutly fume. THEY ARE UNECESSARY. You just need a competent Clin Pysch with the courage of their diagnostic skills to spend a few hours with you and DS and make that dx.

(In case you're wonderng the last 2 tests are made up - I just leant on teh keyboard like the educationalists do when they want to magic up some smoke and mirrors).

I mean - HOW FUCKING DIFFICULT IS IT to take diagnostic criteria and consider them against developmental history and observations? What on earth does school have to do with it? we know they only get one wet Wednesday afternoon's tutoring on the vast subject of SENs during their training anyway.

I'd be inclined to take the piss and invite my Vet. he's probably make a beter fist of it than these fuckwits.

Star - we x posted

I still don't see why the school need to be involved in dx.

I reiterate - in all 3 dxs that DS had it was one-to-one with Psychiatrist / Clin Psychologist.

I would object to hell freezed over at having school there - they are not medics.

Yes - that's excatly what the LA want - for school to dilute the process so there's a quation mark over the 'label' or whether any label at all is required.

Star, the bigger picture the whole reason why the 'card' was given to ds in the first place was that ds was reporting to me incidents of being hit at playtimes. It became obvious during a meeting with school that the incidents ds had reported to me didnt happen exactly as he described them ie he was basically getting names confused. OT said her bit about ds could 'feel' like he was being hit, if someone brushed past him etc, etc.

So he had the card which allowed him to go inside at play time and 'speak' to Mrs x, the idea being if he reported at the time it happened, it would be clearer to him.

Now during a meeting in Feb when i told the school ds had continued to report these incidents to me. Mrs X piped up that ds had not used his card in sometime to go and see here, therefore him not using the card was a success, he was no longer feeling 'anxious' at play time.

Now apparently according to IEP that has changed to he does report to her feeling anxious. So i suppose i should be saying how is ds feeling anxious a positive step forward.

Wet, ASD Assessment Service team, is made up of my Paed, Dr x who is associate specialist and a specialist speech and language therapist.

So my Paed saw ds a few times, said yes he has ASD and referred onto the ASD Assessment team. Apparently they all have monthly meetings to discuss cases.

But my paed who i raved about as he was brilliant, has left so Paed who has taken over hasnt even meet ds.

God this is getting worse by the minutes isnt it!

LOL Wet @vet

Hi. I dont think it right or proper that the school is present at actual dx meeting either.What I said about many opinions being appropriate,is that-opinions. The school should send a report to the dx meeting, and make sure you ask for a copy.That is their view represented in the Report,and the dx team can view that-the school DONT need to be there in person.
The dx comes in a sense from Health Profess. and the joint agency working will follow-on from that.
You can and should withdraw your consent for the school to be present.
If as it seems, the school and LA have their "fingers in too many pies" at present, you could do what we did, and write to CAMHS, SWork,(if involved), school and LA and refuse permission for information sharing until you give written insructions ststing otherwise.
This may give you breathing space and peace of mind, that until tribunal, noone is bad-mouthing you, and passing on inaccurate info.
Have a peaceful weekend.

That's what's sooooo contradictory Claw.

You have a Paed - the Paed has dx'd ASD and now you have this crappy ASD Assessment team telling you in an email that the purpose of the meeting is to decide the label.

It just does not make sense.

as for school being there - I could understand it if they could translate the dx and behaviours into support required but if they are denying there is a problem then there is no point at all in them being there. Their presence merely serves to provide conduit to the LA to prepare for Tribunal - that does not serve you or DS at all well.

I wouldn't have em there and I would make absolutely certain that the medics knew why i wouldn't have them there.

Without menaing to be brutal - a botched dx could set you back years - don't take chances. The Paed can dx without school's input.