I'm tempted to post some hints for this SENCO...

[humblebum]

...here who wants some advice on how to deal with a 'difficult parent' and SALT who doesn't seem to know her place.

I'm sure some of the teachers/SENCOs used to think the same thing before DS was statemented!

Why bother its only TES the website for teachers who are intellectually challenged anyway?

But on the other hand lets go and wind them up!!

i think you should. who do they think they are, the parents are trying to do the best for the child, the salt work specifically with the child and therefore know the needs greater i would say, but the senco has lots of thingsto do like all the other kids, and does she spend 121 witht the child. ooohhhh

Erm wasuup - not all teachers are intellectually challenged, thanks, and not all teachers who post on the TES website are either!

This is the problem: teachers seeing parents as the enemy and parents seeing teachers as the enemy. I am both and realise that very little is black and white. Obviously you, and they, are entitled to your own opinions, but I hate it when teachers and parents try to perpetuate this mistrust

well said giveme

OK So if I was to say that a minority of teachers on TES where then but not all imho?

I noted this comment from the original post on the TES page:-

"The parents really want statutory assessment for their daughter, but really doesn't meet the criteria".

What criteria?. Surely not blanket policy by the LEA (which are illegal). Statements should ideally be done on basis of need. Poor child sounds like she is being failed by this school and SENCO seems useless.

Parents should apply for the SA themselves but probably do not know how to. SENCO should give these people the tools.

I can see both sides to this.

Firstly - tes is in a way teachersnet - i.e. where they go to vent, in the same way we vent on here.

Secondly - I have a great deal of respect for DS's teachers - who have to pick up the pieces of pisspoor somewhat limited early intervention. BUT they do tend to feel they know better than SALT - which can be damaging when they disagree with something as fundamental as not even believing when SALT has a child with a receptive language delay. But then DS's first SALT ("I don't normally deal with the joint clinic cases")was inexperienced with children with receptive language and social communication difficulties, and her report riddled with inaccuracies .

I have been astonished that, now I have been dragged into the world of SEN, I have encountered hostility and mistrust from teachers who had previously been supportive and helpful. This was before I had to highlight the fact that my child had issues which needed addressing.

The reluctance to seek guidance in areas outside their expertise and their mistrust of outside professionals (even specialist teachers) is quite alarming and not mirrored in other professionals. They frequently seem unwilling/unable to say 'I don't know anything about that..'. As a human rights lawyer, I wouldn't offer to do your house sale.... and I hope you wouldn't let me!

Yes, teachers have a particular expertise in teaching and educating but the essence of SPECIAL needs is that a child needs special methods of addressing special educational needs. Often, those with SEN fail to even get their needs identified because teachers, who educate, are not always expert at identifying educational needs which need specialist assistance.

On top of this, of course, is the time and money it takes to do this. Is it not easier to say 'needs, what needs?' or 'no need for a statement, s/he is doing great'?

The fact is parents wouldn't be applying for statements if they trusted schools to provide the assistance that their child needs. The fact that they don't/won't is soemtimes down to budgets - in which case apply for an SA - or to lack of specialist knowledge - in which case apply for an SA.

It's a sorry state of affairs that pits teacher against parent but let's not forget schools are institutions and have most of the power and teachers would do well to remember that.

I don't 'take sides' and, when I used to post more on the TES forums, would do exactly the same as I have here.

The reality is that sometimes, teachers are crap and think they know more than they do. SEN training is diabolical and is only now improving. I had about 2 hours' training on SN and only learned more about it on a child-by-child basis. Now I'm more expert but many colleagues aren't and it's not lack of interest, but lack of training that's at fault. Also, there are some who just aren't interested and don't believe that 'these children' should be educated by them. Then there are some that believe the LA line about not doing Statements/ illegal criteria etc.

However, there are also some parents who get it wrong - never usually out of bad intentions, but still not ideal. Another SN forum I used to go on had lots of evangelical posters who would tell any newbies that they had to get their child Statemented. Sometimes, it just wasn't necessary i.e. the parents were saying that their child was dx'd but had no major problems at school or home, had friends and was progressing academically. Yet these posters would convince them that they'd be failing their child without a Statement. Some parents independently decide that their child should have one because it gives their child a better chance.I've met parents who want Statements for their children because their reading/ spelling ages fall just below the fiftieth centile...it's very difficult sometimes to convince parents that you're not saying no to no help because you're being stingy, but because there is no need.

Statements aren't always necessary, as in the example above. And with the TES post, my impression was that the SENCO meant the child didn't meet the criteria because she was progressing fine and they could meet her needs in the school. That is the only criteria for a Statement, after all: can the school meet her needs from their own resources? If the school feels it can, then the child doesn't meet criteria for a Statement. Now, maybe the SENCO is wrong and should listen to the SALT but I would expect that the teacher who is with the child every day would probably have some idea about the child's progress too. Not all SALTs know their stuff And even if the SENCO is wrong, not everything that a teacher does wrong is malicious, just the same as for any parent.

To be honest, my experience as a parent is enough to convince me that parents of SN children probably have bad enough experiences to feel negative about most teachers and schools J has had some amazing teachers but both SENCOs have been appalling and known less about the system than I have and we've come across some shocking teachers in both schools too, just luckily not teaching J full-time. I guess I just feel strongly that the way forward is not for all teachers to dismiss all parents or vice versa.

I agree that statements aren't always necessary but the problem with all this is, that unless you have a statement, a parent is at the whims of the school (and their budget) as to what help you get.

A system which leaves parents policing it, naturally gives rise to tension and mistrust. There are so many other reasons why schools may refuse help. Further, barriers to education require help even if the child is 'averaging out'. The DDA comes into play here too.

Schools have got to realise that comparative 'failure' within a cohort is not the only test and that although a child may be doing 'ok', there may be evidence that, with help, the child has the ability to do much better.

The only person in all this who has no motive other than the child's welfare is the parent

My own experience is one of wanting very much to work in partnership with my son's school but of feeling excluded and unwanted by a school who neither understands his well-documented needs or has the intention of meeting them.

I would also add that my son is in a clas of 30 in year 2 and his teachers have not the slightest idea of his reading ability or any idea of his individual capabilities (irrespective of SEN). I have to tell them when his reading levels need changing. They never read with him. This is the experience of everyone else I know in that class.

I can't believe this is unusual in large classes in schools these days. So.....how do these teachers suddenly become experts in knowing what a child can and can't do, or what will help? Our OT (my son has had 4 hours worth of appointments so far) knows him far better having spend more 1:1 time with him than he would ever get from a teacher

I find that pretty offensive on many levels, wasuup.

I don't see a problem with the post on the TES website.(I am a mother of a child with additional needs and an infant school teacher).
The teacher states that all possible provision is already in place and that the child is making good progress.
There are guidelines detailing when a child should be put forward for statutory assessment and if a child doesn't meet those then there is no point putting them forward anyway as it wont go anywhere.
Yes, parents only want the best for their children but you DO get some parents who do not let up no matter how much extra provision their child is given.

I think it is impossible to comment on the basis of one person's side of the story.

My son's school say 'we've done everything we can' yet had no provision in place at all (save for on IEP paper)until I started asking questions earlier this year.

Then, head says we will have to have a meeting so they can say exactly what they're prepared to do. I suggest that unless she is confident they understand my son's needs, they should wait until the autism outreach team visits. She agrees indicating a tacit acknowledgment that they don't know my son's needs at all.

Yet, if they posted on this site, SENCO would say I was a pain, asking questions, making his life miserable when school were doing 'all they can'.

Sometimes, parents go for a SA not because they think they will get one, but because they know the LA will then ask questions about provision. Sometimes, schools know this and don't like it.

I'm not saying this is the case here, but there are two sides to every story.

Agreed, debs. This current system is shite and LAs often underfund schools for SEN and then throw their hands up and say that the school should be helping more (truthfully). Then the school say they can't (truthfully, if they haven't the money)/ won't/ don't need to and the LA throw their hands up again and say the child doesn't meet the criteria for a Statement (truthfully) and the parent is left with nowhere to go. Tis crap.

ouryve

I did change my statement on this as I know its only a minority that may give a bad name not all.

annie 987

With my daughter for example I have been told that she was Ok with her Maths just a bit behind. Just in the middle of the stat assessment process now (other issues as a reason for this). The EP assessment in numeracy has placed by daughter under the 1st percentile. She has a learning difficulty that was not picked up by teachers.

With my son just got a private OT for him. I was told by the senco that his dyspraxia was mild. The OT has assessed him as being on the 1st percentile in this area so significant not mild.

If I hadn't as a parent expressed my concerns then what future would my children have had if I had left it to the opinions that I was given.

Parents are not listened to enough-it is fact not fiction.

Yes, parents aren't listened to enough. I really agree. However, the way to change that is not to demonise all teachers...I know you've retracted what you said and thanks for that; I just know that there are some excellent teachers out there who do fight for SN kids - J has been lucky enough to have a couple and I work with many - and the fault lies, in my eyes, with LAs and budgets and lack of training and the 'system' itself, not usually with individual teachers. Though of course there are exceptions!

I think the problem with my children's school senco is that she has been there for donkeys years. She was there when hubbys older brothers went to school there and wasn't young then. It wasn't all that long ago that children with SEN were kept at the back of class and out of the way. It is only in recent years that some difficulties have been recognised and interventions have been developed. Also the way school league tables and SATs results are focused on doesn't really take into account children with SEN. So one school who has a lot of SEN children but gets good results otherwise will be placed lower than a school who has less SEN children but also has good results.

That's the problem I had when ds1 was at mainstream flyingduchesse. I was the only pecs trained person regularly near the place (basic training plus an advanced days training plus a conference) yet I was not allowed to become part if the team.

The lovely thing about his sld school is that in the 5 years that he's been there we really have been able to work as a team with his teachers and ta's. We have conversations and a dialogue and no-one is defensive. It makes a huge difference.

"I wish they weren't so guarded. They are lovely. I CAN be. We could work brilliantly together for my ds and for other children with autism. What a lost opportunity!"

Flyingduchesse...you hit the nail on the head completely. I have always prided myself on being a good communicator, at finding a way of working with people even in difficult situations, yet this really has me stumped. I try to let things go, be 'less threatening', be encouraging and supportive, bring in biscuits and thank them for their help....yet they know and I know that they don't understand ASD and show little inclination to try to.

So where do you go from there? All guns blazing, to the head? To the governors? It's unlikely that complaints will make any difference to attitudes. And all you want to do is help them, help your child......

My son's school have no choice but to work with me. I haven't given them any option and they know that they need my help as he can be very very challenging. They're not so good with more passive children who cause less trouble though. Perhaps it's a case of them needing to feel they need help before they involve parents? Whatever, I agree that there are issues and it would be so much better if everyone could work together.