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So are only threads celebrating autism allowed?

380 replies

daisy5678 · 05/05/2009 18:14

I am really truly sorry that the poem upset people and I didn't like it.

But I am so so so furious that the thread has been deleted and I wonder what is next...if someone writes a post saying that they are upset with their child's autism dx, is that deleted as disablist? If I write a post saying that I hate something to do with what autism does to my son, will that be deleted?

Like I said on that thread, one person's reality is not another's. One person's autism is not another's. To ban anything that dares to suggest that autism can actually be quite shit just seems to me to make those who find it hard to cope with feel like they're weak or stupid not to celebrate the great joy that is autism.

Or maybe it's me that is wrong to find this wrong, and to find life really quite hard at times and to dislike the fact that autism, in my son (who is really quite high-functioning) causes really quite horrible things, like suicide attempts and stabbing others and self-harm.

Maybe I should just celebrate all that and keep on smiling smiling smiling, and tell anyone who dares say anything negative about autism that they're wrong, because it's all fine and perfect.

But I can't do that, so I guess I'm not welcome on here anymore. So on an SN thread for parents, we can't dislike anything about our children's SN

OP posts:
Davros · 06/05/2009 14:30

And The Tavistock and France (strange bedfellows!) are still labelling it as such tclanger!

tclanger · 06/05/2009 14:45

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sarah293 · 06/05/2009 17:07

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Catitainahatita · 06/05/2009 18:44

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sickofsocalledexperts · 06/05/2009 18:48

No that is certainly not what givemesleep was saying, and I think she will no doubt want to explain that herself. This all getting very bitchy, which is unnecessary.

meggymoosmum · 06/05/2009 18:51

Does anybody want any popcorn?

anonandlikeit · 06/05/2009 18:53

Ouch Catit, thats a bit harsh, thats not how I read givemesleeps posts at all.
I think ALL posters are just offering THEIR opinion, something we should ALL respect, without it getting personal.

lingle · 06/05/2009 19:07

quick - someone else jump in and talk about something else!

Catitainahatita · 06/05/2009 19:16

I am not doubting in anyway Givemesleep's right to be upset that her opinions were deleted. Nor am I criticising anything else she said.

But you are right, Anonandlikeit. I'm not in favour of personal attacks either. I'm afraid I was upset by the argument I read and felt moved to point out its underlying inconsistency.

The idea was to make the OP consider how she had phrased her argument. Not to give offence. If I have done the latter, I apologise.

sickofsocalledexperts · 06/05/2009 19:16

What about we all agree the following common ground and move onto nicer subjects:

a) autism can be shit
b) there are as many different kinds of autistic kids/adults as there are nf kids/adults, though there is some common ground, and
c) the poem was shit, outdated and over-harsh

?

amber32002 · 06/05/2009 19:16

Why is there popcorn?

amber32002 · 06/05/2009 19:18

FWIW I agree with a, b and c of sickofsocalledexperts post. And I really am sorry that I get communications wrong because of the problems I have.

lingle · 06/05/2009 19:19

seconded sickofsocalled.

anonandlikeit · 06/05/2009 19:21

I agree sickofsocalled

Catitainahatita · 06/05/2009 19:21

I probably could have been a lot more diplomatic.

Makes mental note: never post in the heat of the moment again.

tclanger · 06/05/2009 19:33

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meggymoosmum · 06/05/2009 19:35

Don't worry Catit. I did the same yesterday

tclanger · 06/05/2009 19:35

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amber32002 · 06/05/2009 19:39

I think you were right the first time about that word, but now I'm not sure, tc, but thank you. Honest I don't do it for the thanks, though - I do it because it helps me to do it and I get help here too for when I need it. Mumsnet has been such a place of refuge for me in the last few awful months. (Maybe the word "thanks" doesn't make a picture, so I'm never sure if my brain understands it or not, but I know it's a nice thing to say).

What would be a nicer subject?

bullet123 · 06/05/2009 19:47

Amber, people eat popcorn when they go to the cinema, to watch a film. So when someone says on a thread on mumsnet that they will get some popcorn ,what they mean is:

"I'm going to settle back and read/watch the screen as what's going on should be full of drama and other film like matters."

debs40 · 06/05/2009 19:56

I have read this thread with interest and sympathy for all concerned. These are very emotive issues and I think it is healthy (I hope that no one is too upset still) to have such honest exhanges.

I really admire Amber for her work and her thoughtful and insightful posts which have helped me (and I'm sure so many others) understand my son a little better.

DS is undergoing the diagnosis process and we have our ups and downs. Some embarrassments, some difficulties, some time spent wishing he was more like everyone else. But basically, he is a peach and life is fine.

However, I can completely get what givemesleeps says and I don't think the views expressed by people here are mutually exclusive in any way; just reflections of their own experiences.

I have a profoundly disabled brother with cereberal palsy who I help care for and I cannot imagine how my mother coped when he was young. However, I know that not being able to share her feelings honestly caused her to live a life of unspoken anger and depression until her death ten years. Life seemed to be joyless for her and it really needn't have been like that.

Honesty, and a safe space to talk, brings perspective and support and that is what we're all after. End of...

amber32002 · 06/05/2009 20:01

Bullet123, as ever, thank you. I think you're a lot better than I am at interpreting random expressions. I hope there isn't a lot of drama. Well, if there's any with Daniel Craig in it, I'll be happy. Or Johnny Depp, for that matter

sickofsocalledexperts · 06/05/2009 20:06

wow Debs, what a beautiful post. And so sad for your mum to have no outlet!

bullet123 · 06/05/2009 20:14

I have a strong fascination with words and phrases so it's something I've had a lot of practise with Amber. TSometimes someone will say a phrase and it will turn out I've interpreted it too literally but I'm mostly ok.

daisy5678 · 06/05/2009 20:21

Catitainahatita, you don't know me or my situation or even this board very well, so I really am at a loss about why you feel that you can shout me down about an issue about this board, my life and my rights (and those of others) to speak about the realities of autism.

I'm also at a loss about why you solely focus on me when many others have similar opinions.

You say:
"However she then goes on to attack Amber for using the generic "we" when talking about ASD and says that the SN thread is for parents of SN children and not SN children themselves. So, she is effectively telling Amber to bugger off somewhere else, since as a SN person herself she doesn't belong here.

Nice. So, really what she is saying is that: "only my opinions should be allowed on here. I don't want to hear about how people with SN might actually feel, I just want to talk about how it affects me."

That's hardly preaching the tolerance that she wants for herself, is it now?

IMHO I think there is room on MN for both sides. Noone should go away.

Oh and, Amber has since apologised for using "we" when she might only mean "me"; perhaps Givemesleep would like to extend the same courtesy? "

No, you don't understand my OP correctly and clearly don't want to.

I do stand by the fact that this a forum for parents of SN kids and that clearly some of what we say would upset our kids if they read it, the same as it would a person with SN. This is a forum for parents of SN kids. And I never said 'so go away' but my point was that yes, as this is a forum for parents of SN kids and is not a support forum for people with SN specifically, there is bound to be stuff that might upset people with SN...if we're allowed to post honestly, that is. If my son read my posts, I'd post differently. But this is a board for parents, who need support. I have no doubt that Amber has helped many other mums with her insights into autism. But I don't think that there's anything that would compensate me fully for not being allowed to say anything negative about autism

I agree that there is room on MN for both sides and that is exactly my point. I said in my second post "I'm really angry and upset, but I think the difference is that I am not saying that others can't challenge and oppose my views because I'm upset and angry. I take responsibility for reading this rather than leaving (which was my first temptation). But without debate, there is no broadening of knowledge. The fact is, we all learn from each other, and a sanitised MN where we all say 'oh, isn't autism lovely' is bullshit and no help to anybody, let alone those struggling." and I stand by that.

My point about the use of 'we' was not to tell anyone off but to make the point that one person with autism is not all of autism and can't speak for all of autism. I think that Amber might feel that she does and that is why the poem might have affected her so much. I didn't make a personal attack and if you could read without bias as someone who is Amber's friend from another part of the board, you might see that.

I don't want to patronise Amber by saying that, as she has an ASD, I can't be honest with her. I am honest with everyone. I have not done any personal attacks. It's how you choose to read it. I find it very that I am somehow less important on this board and that my opinions are less important because I don't have SN. Clearly parenting a child with SN leaves me needing no support whatsoever and, because I don't have SN, people don't need to worry about slagging me off .

This whole thing is upsetting me and pissing me off so so so much that I just need to go elsewhere and hope that I can find somewhere else where I can actually have some kind of sounding board/ venting place about autism without someone with autism telling me I'm disablist and that I hate my son and find him disgusting . I don't have that in real life, and now not on here either.

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