OMG oh my god

[Jimjams]

OK you know how I've always bleated on about ds1 regressing following eczema herpeticum at 11 months, and how we felt the antibiotics were an issue. Well just read this . DS1 was prescribed augmetin duo by a consultant dermatologsit- the pharmacist questioned it when dh picked it up - as being veery strong for an 11 month old (and the packaging said not for under2's). But we gave it becasue it had been consultant prescribed.

Buggeration buggeration buggeration.

see here

sorry that see here was for jakb

Just read it, just looked up Co-Amoxiclav and it is indeed the same drug.
Bloody hell

AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Just opened a posh bottle of red wine that is officially DH's! (he's out)

Wow - I so feel for both of you Jimjams and JakB.

I would have thought this research is potentially HUGE. Amazed it hasn't been picked up by the media.

How did you come across it Jimjams? - bloody hell your heart must have been racing as you read it....

Think this needs an article
I've not read about it, either. Really surprised it hasn't been picked up.

Hell, I don't know whether to say this as I don't want to seem dismissive, and I know (very well!) that genetic background could play a part but I have to say that ds had at least 4 courses of augementin before his first birthday, and at least another six courses before his second. And many more in the following couple of years. I am only mentioning this in the spirit of "don't automatically blame yourselves for having allowed your children to be given this drug"

Know what you're saying tamum. Think obviously DD and Jimjams' DS have a particular susceptibility, if antibiotics or another environmental factor did 'cause' or 'worsen' their autism. Anyway, I've got totally hysterical and don't even know if dd had this drug early on yet. But I've always had a niggling feeling that although many other 'signs', what caused that 'crash' at 8 months?

I'm sorry JakB, I can completely understand. I just wanted to kind of say that being given augementin under 2 doesn't necessarily mean that it's the cause of autism, but obviously something is, and it's quite right to consider everything like this seriously

Of course!!! Think it's probably a mishmash of stuff. Genetics, environmental factors etc etc.
Think your input is really useful. On my second glass of wine!

of course you're right tamum- I was saying the same to a friend just now. In ds1's case the only time he had it though was right before his regression.

Funnily enough he shouldn't have been given it according to stuff I've read as he is down as being allergic to penicillin- (not convinced he is tbh but the GP thought he was).

I?m sorry that you have had this shock Jimjams. It?s not a nice thing to suddenly read in your position.

However, I have been looking at the actual article and I have to say I don?t think the study has been carried out particularly scientifically. The press release states ?These children were found to have a significantly higher number of ear infections than the general pediatric population.?. However in the actual article all I could find it that they examined 206 children who had autism and counted the number of ear infections and antibiotic courses they had. It was an average of 12 antibiotic courses (which does seem high) but

• there was no control group of NT children so they can?t possibly say whether this is significantly higher than average without knowing what the average number of courses is in NT children
• there was no check to see how many of the courses were administered before the child was believed to have become autistic which is surely more relevant than the total number of courses However they did find that 362 courses of Augmentin had been administered before the age of 1 which would average out between 1 and 2 per child. This is quite a low number and again without comparing to an NT sample how can it be said that it is significant? In fact they say themselves that ?According to statistics compiled by the pharmaceutical industry in the year 2001, Augmentin? was the 27th most common prescription used in the United States, ahead of such widely prescribed medicants as: levothyroxine, and prednisone?. So it is highly likely that there are an awful lot of children who have also had the drug without developing autism. In fact I am gobsmacked that they have no control group in this study and it makes me suspicious why they didn?t.

I am not saying that what they say may not have a basis and to be fair, they are publishing in a journal called ?Medical Hypotheses? so they are not claiming more than a hypothesis for further investigation, but it makes me furious when this type of thing gets translated into a scary press release which can upset people so much.

Oh F! Have just ring my sister to ask her if her DS who has been diagnosed with autism had this medicine during his 1st year... and he has!s the question is... how do I tell her about this???

Well, you have to take it seriously don't you, especially with timing like that.

Jimjams, I know I'm being dense, but why were they giving him antibiotics for a viral infection in the first place?

saker I can only access the abstract- do you have a copy of the article you could email me?

Tamum he was covered with e herpeticum which then became infected- so the antibiotics were for the infection. He was an absolute mess to be honest. When I took him to the GP's the receptionist screamed(!!) HIs face was kind of peeling back- had big craters in it lots of yellow bits which I think indicated staph (?- if i remember correctly) although augmentin duo should have worked against staph.

I've always thoguht that the antibiotics played a big part because his gut and gut flora is messed up.

Jimjams - I've just read this and it has made me feel sick to the bottom of my stomach - so god knows how it made you feel.

I have an awful 'there but for the grace of God go I' kind of feeling about it.

My DS suffered recurring ear infections and bad glue ear as a baby and I am sure that this was one of the anti-biotics he was given. As you may recall (you helped me with some invaluable advice) my DS has had speech difficulties and possibly verbal dyspraxia, and I wonder now whether this was his 'lucky escape'!

This must seem a confusing time for you - relief at finally having some evidence that your gut instinct was right, combined with horror that this could have been the cause mixed with sorrow for the loss of quality of life that your DS (and the rest of your family too) have been subjected to as a result of this

And all at a time when you should be enjoying the early days with your new DS

Saker I know 12 courses of anti-biotics sounds a lot, but my DS probably had double that amount in the first 18 months of life, including one 12 week course of low dose anti-biotics to get the glue ear under control, which didn;t bloody work

Oh, that figures jimjams. I've just checked and I can get the full article- shall I email it to you now?

yes please

Would it be too cheeky of my part to ask you to e-mail it to me too? I have been trying for ages to convince my family that antibiotics should not be used as aspirins... please???

Jimjams
I can email you a copy if you CAT me. It's not particularly long.

Sorry Chandra

our posts crossed - I wasn't ignoring you. I can email you too if you CAT me. Of course it would be entirely for research purposes Just hope no-one here is involved in copyright....

Sorry this thread is moving too fast for me - I missed your post tamum. So you are sorted Jimjams, let me know if not.

Thanks tamum see what you mean saker- its pretty preliminary isn't it. More (robust) research would certianly be interesting though (from my point of view- given the timing etc).

Saker, thank you very much. I have already CAT you.

Thanks a million.