OMG oh my god

[Jimjams]

OK you know how I've always bleated on about ds1 regressing following eczema herpeticum at 11 months, and how we felt the antibiotics were an issue. Well just read this . DS1 was prescribed augmetin duo by a consultant dermatologsit- the pharmacist questioned it when dh picked it up - as being veery strong for an 11 month old (and the packaging said not for under2's). But we gave it becasue it had been consultant prescribed.

Buggeration buggeration buggeration.

Saker, it's a good job we're all anonymous really (sorry to have butted in, I had Jimjams's email address already so it saved CATing!)

tamum - I've sent you a link to a photo of ds3. Check his eye contact for me

Spot on I would say- mind you, no-one could fault ds1's eye contact in that pic of him relaxing, could they? Beautiful boys, the lot of them

TBH his eye contact has always been pretty good when relaxed (or being naughty). It's only when he's being tested that he refuses to look at you.

What did you think of the article Tamum? (are you from a scientific background as you had access to it?)

The other thing it doesn't consider at all is whether the whole thing might be the other way round and that children with autism are more susceptible to infection in the first place so are more likely to have had multiple administrations of antibiotics. They probably should have compared also with a control group of children whose parents believed they were born autistic. Again obviously I don't know if that is the case but I feel very much they decided their conclusion before they carried out their experiment and that is bad science.

Jimjams that is so like my ds2 who just had a schedule of growing skills assessment today. As soon as he was started on the fine motor skills (threading etc) which he knows he can't do, he actually put his head down and started looking under the tablecloth

S**t Jimjams
I am so for you.

possibly had- there's a big school of thought that links frequent ear infections/antibiotics with autism. It's one of the autism "types" (the subgroup that ds1 falls into). The children who fall into this group tend to come from genetic backgrounds with lots of autoimmunity (none of this is very robust- comes from parent questionaires etc).

The woman carrying out the research is a chiropractor - which seemed a bit strange at first although other work of hers appears to have been taken seriously by the us senate- and she appears to have patented something that would help identify children who may benefit from secretin (which would be worth doing as giving secretin is very invasive and requires a GA). I suppose the paper depends how much interpretation is drawn from it (durr can't think straight need to go to bed). By which I mean it says to me that there could be something in it so worth looking at further.

I completely agree with you Saker, although I have only skimmed it. The lack of controls is fairly spectacular. I would also have liked to see another very easy control, children who have had repeated courses of augmentin in the absence of ear infections. I guess it's valid to raise the idea, but it would have been so trivial to do a proper study I would have thought- it's not stuff that's difficult to measure. Yes, I'm a scientist BTW!

but agree the woork so far isn't very robust. Still I would kind of like to think it was as then I can srtop examining ds3 in quite so much detail

I suspect she's just looked at the children who have come into her clinic iyswim. So a bit self selected. A bit like the stuff walsh has done (unpublished afaik still) on metallothionein- he's only got his hands on people who have gone to his clinic.

Every time we've had to fill in any questionaires (done a few!) they always ask about ear infections- bit of a thing in the autism community. I've never been clear whether they think its the antibiotics that are the problem, or whether the ear infections have something to do with inflammation (another big theme in the autism world). Migraines as well (always asked about migraines that is).

as I said earlier- because of the gut problems autistic kids often have (especially the ear infection group- davros are they type 1's or 2's?) I've always been suspicious of the antibiotics, rather than the infection.

OOf course lots of conventional docs are refusing to give antibiotics for ear infections now though aren't they? We need hopi ear candles

Jimjams!

Jimjmas - in Ds's case we're pretty sure the ear infections were caused by a dairy allergy. He had a couple of homeopathic consultations and remedies and we were advised to take him off dairy and the glue ear and infections cleared up very quickly after that.

Hard to know if the speech problems were caused by the hearing loss itself, the antibiotics, or possibly even the toxic effects of the dairy allergy. Will probably never know

I just really hope for you that this research now leads to a wider, properly controlled study which will give you some more conclusive answers!

That's weird about ear infections- it's hard to see how they could be a direct cause as opposed to a linked condition, or because of response to antibiotics, isn't it? I can see why she's gone public with the results, certainly, but very self-selecting as you say. That's why I thought a control group with equal exposure to augmentin but without ear infections (I'll volunteer ds for a start ) would have been interesting.

Not surprised this thread has taken off in the past few hours. Guess what my ds also had loads of ear infections as a babe - it never occurred to me it MAY be linked to his autism!! (open mouthed in shock!!) How did you come across this article jimjams????

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Oops - this isn't connected to amoxycillin is it??? I just think I misread this.

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phew!!! Dd had lots of eye and a couple of bad ear infections in her first year. She also had bronchiolitus. So had a lot of anti-biotics and I feel is on the spectrum slightly. I wonder if any of these infections and anti-biotics affected my dd?

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Thanks oops. Goodnight x

My ds has never had an ear infection but I had a couple of really bad ones when he was small and I was breastfeeding. When the second one was no better after 10 days the doctor gave me anti-biotics. Should I find out what they were do you think?

so sorry to hear this, none of my three had AB'S , but i do know lots of ASD kids who have had lots of ear infections, hope they do some more research, thou i expect it may well be hushed/covered up