Mail on Sunday Magazine

[lottiejenkins]

I found this article today..........I thought it was very moving,,,, what a decision that lady made... dont think i could do it though!
www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/you/article.html?in_article_id=522925&in_page_id=1908

I agree that personal attacks on JH don't help anyone but it's not helpful either to give a fairly positive judgement on her behaviour and then to say that it does no one any credit to 'judge' when all you mean is that no one should make a judgement that is different to yours - I am not criticising you personally as I know this usage of the word 'judge' is fairly common now.

btw, if you know the local situation, is there really a vicar who believes in destiny? I know it's a minor point but I would be genuinely interested to know.

Jonkat - this family has an outcome they are happy with. Immie is safe and well. You are right it is a good outcome for all involved.
But I have reservations on other counts:

• JH is in a very lucky position of being able to write a well publicised book explaining her choices. She is being given a sympathetic ear in a lot of the media. I truly feel there is a danger of those who know nothing of this sort of life event feeling she made the "right" choice. Which can be turned into the "best" choice. Which can be turned into the only choice. I would not dream of judging a private individual about their life choices. But by going down the route of selling her story, I feel I have benn given right to put my view on it across. Hers is not the only way. There is a danger of many people thinking that it is, unless those of us who choose differently are allowed our say as well.

well, my final word...the thing I object too the most is the woman is touting herself as some sort of authority on caring for a SN child when she isn't.

i have said on this thread and the in the news one that the paediatrician was wrong to say what he or she did. Unfortunately they seem to do that a lot. And I am quite happy to complain about that until the cow's come home. BUt we've all had those things said to us. (And I'll also complain about them assuming that mother's who push their child are in denial- the reaction I'm getting in my attempts to teach ds1 to type to communicate btw- and today he typed 'upstag' - for upstairs- when asked where he wanted to go- so they can stick that in their pipe and smoke it. Sorry slightly off topic).

But JH is not saying that she was mistaken in thinking that Immie had no intelligence. She's not saying that she was mislead. Her blog says that she still believes to some extent that Immie's life is 'too lacking in consciousness to be worth celebrating.' That's pretty damming.

thestands

I have no idea whether Julia 'sold her story' - it's usually newspapers that 'buy stories', publishers with much more dosh at risk more often wait and see what the book is like before they decide to publish. There are also many books published that make no money for either the author or the publisher, that's the nature of publishing, it's a risky bsiness. So unless you have more ionformation that I do, I can't answewr your question.

yurt1

your qoute:

"Elinor has regained the privelige of a normal childhood. She now has another sister, little Beatrice, who is the lively, challenging companion we hoped Immie would be."

I have discussed this with Julia, I also have 2 non SN kids of my own, I know my own have not had a "normal" childhood simply becasue it is not "normal" for any child to be part of a family where one child has such over arching needs, without any doubt, the non SN kids in my family and I suspect every similar family do not get their needs placed on the same level as the SN child. They do loose out on the "normal" things although they may well, as mine have, gained other things. However, that is only possible where the family can cope.

PipinJo

If you read more the book carefully you will see that Julia left Immie in the hospital precisely becasue she knew that Immie would be well cared for.

As for the breast pump thing, which of us has not (at some dark hour of the night) felt revolted by what we have produced ? Be honest now...........OK I know I foster ours and did not give birth to them so it is very different for me.

Juklia DID admit she could not cope and then did something about it, Are you suggesting that she should have admitted she could not cope and then kept quiet thereby putting Immie and the rest of the family at risk ? I hope not !!

I've resonded to your thoughts about profit above - what profit ?

As to your last para, I don't believe Julia is hanging her washing out in publis, when she wrote the book she knew ther'd be loads of self rigthous folk who would jump in with judgements before they even read the book, she said so to me, her hope was and is that there'd be enough open minded peolple read it to help change things for all of us.

pagwatch

Have you read the book ? I thought not . . . . . . . I suggest you read it before you voice your views, they might then carry some weight !!

jonkat

Again, i think that those in support of Jh have missed the pint.

no one on here is judging her decision to place Immy in care, nor do they think Immy would have been better off with the Hollanders ( it is abundantly clear that Jh just isn't the sort of person who could mange with a less than perfect child)

What we are judging is the way she is trying to speak as a voice for disabled children. the way she is profiting from her decision to abandon a baby.
and teh way in which she speaks about a little girl, HER little girl.

Self righteous?

how bloody dare you.

If she 'knew' Immie would be well cared for she must have been in different hospitals than me.

Actually all the children in our family have their needs placed at the same level. We juggle. And to suggest that they don't lose out by having their sister live apart from them is crazy. That is not a situation that is without cost. Look at the comments from siblings on this thread alone.

"As for the breast pump thing, which of us has not (at some dark hour of the night) felt revolted by what we have produced"

revolted? revolted? revolted?

No I have NEVER once felt revolted by what I have "produced".

And it is EXACTLY that sort of revolting attitude that I find so utterly offensive in this book and if it reflects JH's feelings then yes in her too.

Vile.

Revolted?? Seriously. No. You have no idea.
I used to look at my little baby with her extra chromosomes in wonder. And still do. She fascinates me!! I love her differences, the shape of her eyes, her tongue, the different, slightly dumpy shape of her body.
She is beautiful and knows it.

Yurt, Fio, Mamazon and the rest of you lovely people......
I feel we are from a different planet.

I have never looked at my son with anything but love and adoration.

My daughter is given the same amount of love and attention as DS.
yes there are places we don't go because Ds woudl fnd it difficult, but there are others that we do visit that most children dont

JH hasn't written a book to blow teh lid on a olack of services, or to improve provision for children with Sn.
she wrote it to make herself feel better. it is for self justification and to massage her own ego.

I don't think i have spoken to a single parent of a child with SN who is in support of Jh or her book.
and yet i am and know people who are happily supportive of families who took teh decision to place their child in care.

Its not the decision, its the attitude

And the fact that a foster carer has just used the word revolted..... Well my son will never be passing into foster care.

"enough open minded people to change it for all of us". I work in a field that I hope will lead to policy change. I don't insult parents and their children to do that.

theheadgirl yes i think so. and boy am i glad!

The fact that it's even deemed acceptable to use the word revolted. Well obviously yes we are. Thank god.

theheadgirl

thank you for you thoughtful responce, I do understand, and share, your concerns.

I would just say that the way to change the system, indeed any government system, is to hurt their pocket.

For as long as their are Julias and Tania's that's just what happening. When the idiots in government, with the cheque book, understand how much they could save by keeping famnlies together, in both human and financial terms, we will have won.

FioFio

How dare you suggest that I have no responsibility. And no, I will not parade my kids here meerly for your satisfaction.

Thier needs are substancial and complex and that is all I'm prepared to say, They are entitled to their confidentiality just as we are unless you're also suggesting that because they have SN they loose the rights that we enjoy ?

jonkat

OMGoodness. REVOLTED?? REVOLTED?? Revolted by my beautiful but challenging child??!

No! I never have!! Never once have I been revolted by what I "produced"!

How tragic and sick to feel that way about your child!

ShinyHappyPeopleHoldingHands

I haven't and I am not, remember I foster ours so our experience is different to yours. I am quote the words of other mothers of severly DC.

I love mine, tyhey arte the most wonderful loving, kind, generous kids I could ever hope for.

Jonkat

ShinyHappyPeopleHoldingHands

I haven't and I am not, remember I foster ours so our experience is different to yours. I am quote the words of other mothers of severly DC.

I love mine, tyhey arte the most wonderful loving, kind, generous kids I could ever hope for.

Jonkat

"revolted by what we have produced" . what a vile way of putting it. I really don't think anyone on here is disputing that support by SS etc is inadequate. I feel that is largely a separate issue from the JH book. If JH has allowed abridged sections of her book/story to be made public as part of the book's marketing then she has to accept that people will form opinions without having read the book.

I am getting really fed up, of people telling us we have no right to any opinion until we have read the book. We are basing our opinions on the information currently available to us.
Most of us have not been able to get hold of the book.
Many don't want to now.
But we have seen many articles, listened to the radio programmes, investigated JH blog and the lovely Tanias blog.
What more reseacrh do you want us to do?
Did JH do as much research prior to getting rid of her child ?

mamazon

Yes, self rightous, you more than most - can I refer you back to your first post on this thread, just see how your position has chanaged.

And you in a profession which should, above all other, not judge !!!

jonkat

Jonkat;
"I would just say that the way to change the system, indeed any government system, is to hurt their pocket.

For as long as their are Julias and Tania's that's just what happening. When the idiots in government, with the cheque book, understand how much they could save by keeping famnlies together, in both human and financial terms, we will have won."

What does that mean?
Do you feel that Julia gave away her girl as a political point?
Do you feel that I, in order to get goverment to change policies, should do the same?
Who are the "we" that have won - do you consider yourself on the same side as me?

I'm very interested to know.......