Mail on Sunday Magazine

[lottiejenkins]

I found this article today..........I thought it was very moving,,,, what a decision that lady made... dont think i could do it though!
www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/you/article.html?in_article_id=522925&in_page_id=1908

As I said earlier, I am not dishing out any of my credentials on here. I am no better nor worse than anyone else on here.

I am certainly not having a pop at anyone, good luck to you all.

I have simply questioned whether such vitriol is properly directed when it is fired off at JH.

As for Tania, she is someone who has decided to live her life in a certain way, it works for her, more importantly works for the children.

Perhaps in all the looking at what adults have done or not done we need to focus a bit more on the children and their needs.

yes it is, but we all know (ones living it) just how hard it is to get respite and services from SS. It is true to say, you have to be almost at breaking point before they help.

I now know I can deal with my daughters disability, changing nappies in a teenager isn't that bad. But when she was a few months old, I couldn't ever envisage I could do that.

I can't hate on this woman, some people just can't do it and never will be able to do it. She recognised that. Surely it is better to do something about it early on, before the life of Immie was tainted by a family that could never truly accept her as she is/was?

I know these people from a distance, they ALL love and adore Immie and that is all that matters in the grand scheme of things

so ok it is fine to give up on a baby after 5 months,
to use your existing childs behaviour as an excuse.
I have to say i do judge that. i also cannont for the life of me get my head round it.

oh and if getting help from ss is so imposiible why have I had it for years.we get help and suport and respite.
so don't use that please.

You are lucky

I know so many parents that get nothing, even when utterly exhausted and barely coping. And many more get bare minimum and are told to be grateful

People are being given 1 hour a week respite (and ss think that is good??) if they are lucky

I'm sorry but you are in the minority

not at ds's school strangely i am one of the ones who doesn't get much compared to others. (age group same as dd)
we have had the rubish help in the past. 3 link familys. only on was good and that stopped over night. but we will be ok all the time dd is at school then god help up.
I think from my own expierence the first 3 years are the worst as people(insert family and ss) expect you to cope.

How much do you get out of interest 2shoes?

talies, you say do not judge. But we are a very judgemental nation. And that word is often quoted on mumsnet. But we all judge. Or we are all entitled to an opinion.
But the fact is that JH did what she did and then has written a book, and been on the radio, in all the newspapers. It is current news. And thus will be discussed in real life and on mumsnet.
I can just about accept what she did. But she shows no remorse, or questioning, or regret or anything, in any of the papers/radio etc. She presents herself as hero and brave. And I just can't accept THAT.
If you put yourself in the pblic eye, as she has CHOSEN to do.
People will discuus. This is a fact.

just find it interesting that taliesintraction has only posted on this thread given the broad range of topics available on mumsnet. Strange how this is the only thread that 'caught' your attention. I wonder if you came for a nosy when you read what India Knight wrote in her column.

what makes it wrong is to reject this child as they did not fit the picture of the perfect child and thus family - both JH and her partner, to totally eradicate any appearance in the family home of this child and her belongings and to turn around and write a book about it - thereby profiting from a situation they could not stand themselves. To trot out Immie for photo opportunities, to use her to write a book and to make money from it.

To think that what she did was brave - no sorry it comes across as very selfish - on both parent's parts - I really find his behaviour absolutely dreadful. Find it amazing to think that love can be so conditional for some people. Immie is fine now as at the end of the 'visit' Immie goes back to Tania and JH trots back to her 'perfect' life. I agree with whoever it was that said she felt a victim and almost like we should feel sorry for her having to endure 5 months with Immie and then how noble she was to make the 'sacrifice' to give Immie up for the better of others. [puke]

SOrry probably rambling but it is late and I am tired.

r3dh3d 10 holiday nights and i think 49 term time nights.

2shoes, you are so very lucky! keep hold of that package very tightly!!!

It's just that we have been assessed by SS as needing 50 hours/week, but we get 15 - and that is because we are "middle class". No other reason. It's illegal, but there you go. And 4 hours of that we only get because we have no link family - no-one will take DD1 on.

So though I don't think it makes a huge amount of difference to this story, I would agree that it is difficult to get help and the system can be class biased in some areas.

I agree r3dh3d. If you are nice 2parent, working family, they think it's hunky dory and you can cope

I know famillies that have gone to SS and been offered homestart! They need space and time out, not a volunteer to pop in for coffee once a week

Talies
you miss a huge and fundamental point.
Most ofthe mothers here would have sympathy - huge huge sympathy - for any parent who tried to cope with a profoundly diasbled child and found themselves overwhelmed and unable to cope. Any mother in that situation posting here would be enveloped by the support that this fabulous baord offers.
But that is simply not the case here.
The points which are repellent in this story are almost too numerous to name but my top few would be ..
-giving up after only 5 months
-driving that poor childs belongings to the dump ( how symbolic - not a charity shop you notice but a dump).
-Doing so whilst eldest daughter was at school
-and writing a book about it simply to make money. A substantial donation to an appropriate charity would have seemed less - well less whorish to be frank.

I am wealthy enough to pay for care for my son and smart enough to 'work' the system as JH did. So your accusation of jealousy whilst being really pretty snyde is also inaccurate in my case.
I don't farm out my son. It is not because I can't. I keep him here with me and his father and his siblings because he is ours, we made him and we love him.

And for someone to portray themselves as some kind of brave victim is a terrible afront to the thousands of parents for whom loving their child is the hardest work but the most challenging and rewarding enterprise they will ever undertake.

A little humility would have gone a long way. And a little humanity in recognising that by trying to gain some moral high ground she is effectively dismissing the rest of us as stupid - just as you have implied. Not nice really.

minorityrules by the way we are a nice 2 parent family, normally working(oh shit I am a SAHM so that counts me out) i think we are WC though.
it is just that we live in an area with a very good disability team.

I'm not knocking you 2shoes, just saying it isn't the norm. You are lucky. I wish everyone had that kind of respite

pagwatch, 5 months of a baby that doesn't sleep but screams most of the day, doens't feed easily and is fitting constantly would seem like 5 years. Is that what they thought the rest of their lives would be? It would be easy for them to think so. Now we know Immie settled down, they didn't know that would happen. They thought of ending her life!! I think they did the sensible thing. If they didn't love her they would have put a piilow over her face, they would have walked away forever

How many of you have been told that your child would be a 'vegetable' (if they survived)in those first few days/weeks? How many would have held back their love just in case they died? How many have allowed themselves to love a child that had a shortened life expectancy? I have been there, I held back, I had to. My daughter wasn't a screamer or a fitter but I don't think I fell in love til she was a year old, when the dust had settled and I got to know her

And now I love my daughter but I hate her disability, I'm lucky that it's that way around

Minority. I have had almost exactly that experience. For me the non sleeping and screaming lasted about 18 months.
I was told that DS would need residential care before he was 5 years old. I do get most of the issues. I was lucky. I was already in love with my son.

Again.
The issue is not the choice about whether they could cope or not.Not being able to cope is totally understandable. The issue is about how they have handled it and how they are trying to portray it.

Agree with pagwatch. If you actually read the thread you will see that no-one at all has condemned wanting to run. Or not being able to cope. I have said repeatedly that I know my son will pass out of our care at some stage. It's they way in which is was done (OK, presumably she was mentally unsound at the time) and specifically the praise for that, when society would never praise someone for dumping a 5 month old NT kid in hospital. THey just wouldn't. They might understand it, but they would praise it. That's the issue for me. It's not brave just because this child happens to have a disability.

"Whilst people are prepared to commit themselves to a life of poverty, where their partners are very likely to abandon them, their relationships with their other children fail."

Where on earth has anyone said this? THis seems to be the 'reality' that Julia concocted in her head. It's certainly not mine. I have strong relationships with all 3 of my children, I'm sat at work now doing a job I love and my husband would never abandon his children or me. Yes disability provides extra pressures and relaitonships need to be strong to survive that, and also storng to survive other difficulties that crop up in everyone's life.

Respite services vary across the country- that's an issue, but I'm not sure it's classist. We're middle class and I get (compared to others on mumsnet a high level of direct payments - 8 hours a week during school terms and 15 hours a week during school holidays- which SS are currently applying to increase to 20 hours a week). Direct payments is about the one thing my LA seems to have sussed out.

And now I agree with Yurt. The description of relationships with other children failing and partners walking is about dishonest and cheap.
Of course relationships under intense strain fail. Of course siblings have to learn to compromise and cope, just as the parents do.
But I am married 20 years next year. And I could not have a better relationship with my other two children whos lives have been challenged but ultimately enhanced by their very close and loving relationship with their SN brother.

I do not and will not ever judge anyone for admitting defeat.
I am gratefull that my sons Sn is as relativly mild as it is, and yet i have days where i just don't think i can cope.

I an see quite clearly why a person whose child has suffered severe brain damage may feel inadequate to care for their child.

BUT what i find abhorant is the fact that this woman did not struggle to cope with the care of her child.
she didn't have months of sleeples nights and trauma of hospital appointments. she did not face the humiliation of family occasions, shopping trips and playschool.
she didn't battle the local authoruity for every minute of support she could squeeze from them.

she just said "this isn't what i ordered, sorry take it back"

she didn't spend days in tears despairing over her decision. she didn't discuss every option with anyone that could help.
she didn't seek any and every alternative...she just jumped to dump.

she showed no compassion for that tiny defencless child, because to her it wasn't a child at all. it was an animal, a mistake of nature.

She talks of how fabulous her relationship with Immy is now,how great her care is.
but she had no idea this would be the case when she chose to abandon her in teh hospital.
what if teh social worker had said she will be shipped to some home somehwere miles away and you will not be able to visit? do you think she would have changed her mind? because i don't.

Taliesintraction - you have said we should focus on teh system. i agree. it fails probably 80% of families with Sn.
but JH didn't ask for help, she asked for an erasor. she didn't want help in coping with her child, she wanted them to remove her. she wanted Immy removed from their lives as if it were all just a bad dream.

You also asked about someone becoming old and still careing for a disabled child.
My grandfather died aged 75, my aunt who also has complex SN lived with him that entire time.

She is now in supported accomodation because no one in teh family can offer her teh full time care she needs, but instead we all take "shifts"

Yes my grandparents sacrficied a lot to care for my aunt. I know that my gran once had a conversationw ith my mum where she admitted that maybe it would have been kinder for my aunt to have died.
she broke down into tears of guilt for saying it aloud.

but i also know that there is no way either of my grandparents would have given up caring for my aunt for all the fancy jobs or luxury holidays in teh world.

I do find your posts very insulting TI.
you are defending teh PoV of JH which is admirable. i am sure there are many many people out there who have read this article or book and feel JH is some kind of heroin, thats the point of the book.

But you have come on and told all of us who have continued to care for our children that we are stupid, that we do not have teh intellect to get the support and assistance needed to place our children in care, that we are somehow neglecting our families by continuing to care for our child with Sn.

I think it safe to say that you are either a friend of JH, an SW from the elderly care team or just someone who has no idea what they are talking about with regards to SN but lieks the idea of a scrap.

"I held back, I had to. My daughter wasn't a screamer or a fitter but I don't think I fell in love til she was a year old, when the dust had settled and I got to know her "

isn't it funny how when you are there in that plae you don't ralise how many people go through it. that line out of your post. I remeber not really bonding with dd until she smiled. I loved her and I cared for her, but that was when I bonded.
now I am not a itelectual just a normal mum. yet I coped. i know loads of mums who coped, a lot going through similar stuff to JH.
but guess what they didn't just give up.

brilliant post MAMAZON

HTis thread has been going for a while now, and it's difficult to recall everyhting that's been said (slight understatemnet ) but, Talies, from what I have read, the so-called hate and vitriol stems not from what Julia decided to do (have Immie cared for by someone else), alhtough the way she went about that does seem questionable to say the least, but instead for what comes across as her feeligs towards disability:

She left her baby alone in a hospital, not knowing what care package would be proposed.

she erased all trace of that baby from the house

she did this partly because her elder child was having problems and exhibiting difficult behaviour. Now, I only know parenting from one side (that of having a SN child) but I think it's pretty normal for child number 1 to have a few adjustment difficulties when child number 2 comes along, NT or SN. At 5 months, is when these problems often come to light IMO. Julia did not give it time to settle.

Every time Julia mentions Immie, she manages to find a new way to offend - she refers to Immie as an animal, she decides Immie is not worthy of her time or efforts to feed her, she dumps all of her belongings as soon as she can, she says things like "they tell me Immie likes chocolate" - clearly not believing this is possible.

People here on this board have got upset over things like that, rather than the fact that Immie is now in care.

I read this article and am still reeling, I have never in my life encountered such outrageously flamboyant amoral self-absorbed gutlessness. From both of them. The passages about the head-smashing fantasy, the "window of opportunity" for murdering her and passing it off as cot death, the breast pump - she just didn't want to give Immie her milk , "excising" her from their lives, driving her highchair and her belongings to the dump - I find it unbelievable that anybody could sink to such depths of heartlessness and selfishness. That poor elder sister of Immie's must have been in utter turmoil.

To me this couple - both of them - embody everything that is wrong with our society - shallow, egocentric, spineless, obsessed with appearances and driven by a sense of entitlement to a life based on convenience and comfort. They insulate themselves against anything distasteful, difficult or tedious, and then they use their expensive education to throw together a narrative that supports it. They knew that bringing up a profoundly disabled child would be noisy, smelly, unwieldy, physically hard, and would take their lives in a direction they simply did not want to go in. No ballet performances or horse-riding rosettes or Oxbridge scholarships to look forward to. So they just got rid of the child - out of sight, out of mind.

People like this just don't have the basic maturity and emotional foundations to become parents to ANY child. You CAN'T just pout and say "I didn't want this one, I wanted a chocolate one. Send it back and fetch me a better one". Having children isn't LIKE that!

This IMO is the mentality that erected those vast horrific asylums where children like Imogen were kept out of public view, isolated and sedated like hydroponically grown vegetables who lived and died without love, without light, without life. How disturbing that there are still people like this having children and writing books. They should be sterilized, and have their hands cut off at the wrists to prevent them from peddling their self-indulgent bleating self-justifications any further.

I hope and expect that their parents, their children and anyone who taught them at their very exclusive schools is writhing in shame and disgust.