Please or to access all these features

SN children

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

Primary school auties thread 9 - spring / summer 2022.

1000 replies

danni0509 · 12/03/2022 09:23

Thread 9.

Links to previous threads below.

For the parents / carers of children with additional needs, most of us have asd / adhd children in primary school, but anybody is welcome to join us to chat x

Thread 1
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/3080753-DS-with-ASD-starting-school-Sept-2018-I-am-feeling-overwhelmed

Thread 2
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/3451020-Reception-auties-2018-19-thread-2

Thread 3
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/3628263-Auties-transition-to-Year-1-thread-3

Thread 4
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/3748449-Primary-school-Auties-into-2020-thread-4

Thread 5
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/3953023-Primary-school-auties-summer-and-beyond-thread-5?pg=1

Thread 6
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/4166833-Primary-school-auties-spring-2021-and-beyond-thread-6?pg=1

Thread 7
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/4303826-Primary-school-auties-summer-and-the-new-academic-year-thread-7

Thread 8
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/4422100-Primary-school-auties-step-into-Christmas-and-the-New-Year-thread-8

OP posts:
danni0509 · 16/03/2022 11:56

Oh bless you open I won’t pretend to know how frustrating it is but i can imagine. I completely see why you are feeling low Flowers

Honestly I think you’ve tried everything you can over the past couple of years.

You’ve had all the relevant people involved, tried all the relevant strategies, moved him to a school best fit for him, you’ve done the slowly slowly approach, I honestly don’t know what to suggest. Have school got any other advice?

OP posts:
dimples76 · 16/03/2022 11:57

Yay Danni!

Open sorry to hear that. It must be so tough, I know how much the respite I get when DS is at school helps me. How long as he been at his new school?

openupmyeagereyes · 16/03/2022 12:11

He started around 23rd Jan. Last week seemed to go so well and now this again. I'm just sick of having no time to myself, I can't even go for a walk unless I go early (before dh work and me needing to get ready and start the farce of getting him to school) or after dinner. Dh works all day and only stops for a half hour lunch. Taking ds for a walk is not the same.

I think we will see if this week continues the same and then tell school that we need to get an EP involved but they need to be able to come here.

carriebradshawwithlessshoes · 16/03/2022 12:40

I’m sorry Open. Any obvious reason for the change after he had been going in? Has he said why?

You can only do what you can do. Yes, an EP would be helpful. I know it’s not totally school related but is there anyone who will have him regularly just so you can go for a walk or have a break? Even a short time a couple of hours a week? I think that’s really important for you.

Do school have any thoughts I wonder? X

carriebradshawwithlessshoes · 16/03/2022 12:49

A further thought and one I wasn’t going to suggest but I will because we all try to help each other don’t we, and if you want to shout at me that’s fine, I’m just putting it out there. And trying to help.

I think there are a lot of children both NT and not NT who if they genuinely thought they had a choice as to whether they would go to school or not would choose not to. And I get that, don’t we all feel the same about many things, work and so on. The irony though is often once there, it’s often not as bad as you think and the child quite gets into it over time. We promise them the world when they are home and so on but fundamentally they know and are told that they have to go. Once that is accepted, the path gets easier.

He now sounds like he is in an amazing school who could deal with a child who doesn’t want to be there professionally and with compassion. If you tried this, do you think you could break through the pain barrier and actually come out of the other side? I don’t know your DS and none of us want our kids to be upset but sometimes short term upset/ pain can lead to long term gain…

My hard hat is on. All said with the best of intentions and trying to think of things to help (both of you, long term) x

LightTripper · 16/03/2022 13:38

I think the problem at this age is you can't exactly just pick them up and make them give it a go... but I know what you mean. Certainly with DD's anxiety I've been asking her to really try to check in on how she is feeling and when the anxiety lifts as she generally comes out of school pretty upbeat. She realised it actually goes almost as soon as she is in the school (walking along the corridor to her classroom). So now although she still feels very anxious about drop-off I remind her that it will go away very soon and that seems to help. I still wish she just didn't feel that way though!

When you think about it schools are just by their nature quite alienating and overwhelming environments. I don't suppose any of us would enjoy a return to school and busy corridors and having to sit in your chair with a bunch of other people, and not being able to choose when to have a break or have a chat with somebody. Forced to spend time with people you don't get on with (and even work in groups/teams with them etc.) They are as much child herding/containment facilities as educational establishments, and the amount that other children can tolerate is just never going to be a good fit for the amount of that sensory and social stuff that our kids can manage.

I wonder if it's worth taking a step back and trying something different? E.g. rather than a later start and joining in when things are already in full swing and then extending the time could an earlier start and arriving when things are still quiet/getting set up work, and then bring him home early so he doesn't get overwhelmed? Hopefully school will be able to suggest something: they must have staff who have lots of different experiences at different schools before and might be able to suggest something creative?

openupmyeagereyes · 16/03/2022 14:37

Light that's exactly it. We cannot force him to get dressed, into the car, keep him in the car and cope with driving 10 miles in the face of the resulting tantrum and then force him into the school. It might be doable for a two year old but not at eight. If you haven't experienced it then it's impossible to know what it's like, it's not as easy as saying just make him go and he'll learn to like it (he has actually been going every day for weeks). Aside from that, we are his parents and what would it do to his trust in us, our relationship and his mental health if we force him into an environment that makes him anxious?

I did get him in for playtime after lunch today but after that he was too nervous to go in the classroom and he sat by the door and moved his chair to outside the door looking into the room, I was sitting in the corridor. It seems to be being in the classroom that is difficult for him.

openupmyeagereyes · 16/03/2022 14:53

It's also what parents of ND children are often told by parents of NT children. That if you just try harder, be firmer, that your child will do what they are supposed to. That it's a parenting problem, that you're letting them 'get away with it'.

danni0509 · 16/03/2022 15:15

Just waiting for an email from school. Taxi said they came out before ds to warn her ‘he had been awful today’. Hmm

carrie I do understand what you’re saying, I know you mean it with good intentions.

I’m a bit like that with ds though, force him to do stuff, but now he’s 8 it’s near on impossible to force him with some stuff. I think aswell that forcing something can have the opposite affect, like I couldn’t force ds to do something at the drs (like blood pressure at CAMHS for example) I would have to sit on top of him on the floor and twist his arms up his back for the that to happen, it would cause such a war, and if I forced him to do that, I’d never get him in the building again, it’s already a task dragging him up the stairs because he’s frightened.

So I don’t bother. Stressful all round.

OP posts:
livpotter · 16/03/2022 16:18

We did force ds in when we had that really awful few weeks of school refusal a couple of terms ago. It wasn't literal forcing but we just kept reducing his options until he had no choice but to go in.
It was horrible and we were all miserable but I know what ds is like and we never would have got him to go back into school again if we'd kept him at home. Not recommending it at all but it's what we needed to do at the time. I don't feel like it was my greatest parenting moment.

Open it's great you are managing to get him in regularly even if it's not as much as you hoped. I hope the school are being helpful.

Dimples that's infuriating about the tribunal. I'm sorry you're being messed around so much.

Good luck with the email Danni.

Still positive on the lateral flows but free from isolation tomorrow night so that's a relief!

SusanStoHelitsPoker · 16/03/2022 16:21

Oh @danni0509, just what you want hear, and talking to the taxi driver not you, how unprofessional!!
I certainly couldn't make DS do anything he didn't want to @openupmyeagereyes! And you're right, the long term trust in your relationship would be eroded if you tried. We just go over how DS is at school in the days like we are at work, then we come back together after school and at weekends. Just take it slowly and try different things like you're doing, I think one day it will all click into.place once he feels safe there.

dimples76 · 16/03/2022 16:40

It's so hard. Hopefully school and Ed Psych can come up with some new strategies Open. It did seem that he had made a lot of progress lately.

danni0509 · 16/03/2022 16:54

I know I’m a negative Nancy anyway, so feel free to ignore, but what exactly can an educational phycologist suggest different to what you’ve already tried?

I know they are very qualified / experienced in their field so I don’t mean any disrespect, but we had a senior EP on ds (she is in charge of all the others at our LA, it’s also who I did the autism course with) and she was stumped when school kept going back to her and saying we’ve tried it and it’s not working, and really she was only suggesting things to school we’d previously tried / heard of. No offence intended but their ideas can only stretch so far no matter their training!

You can lead a horse to water but no matter how experienced you are the horse ultimately has to want to drink!

OP posts:
danni0509 · 16/03/2022 16:55

Not that I’m comparing your ds to a horse open Grin

OP posts:
openupmyeagereyes · 16/03/2022 17:19

Well danni, ds can be stubborn as a mule sometimes, so if the cap fits...

I think that's a valid question re the EP, I know dh is very sceptical of them as they never give you concrete advice, it's all quite general and non-specific, like set the expectation that he should be in school Hmm. If you look at the emotional based school avoidance stuff that the private one I used pointed me to, I'm sure it says things like ignore your child when they are at home, i.e. to make school the preferable place to be. No f way am I ever going to do something like that. It's not all it says and lots of it is about working collaboratively with school etc. but when that doesn't work, what are you left with?

I think my best bet is to talk to the parents of the girls that I know of that are struggling like ds and find out some of the things that are being done to support them. I know for instance that they have a small group that has been set up for them. None of that has been offered to us. There's probably more, I know they are having 1:1 OT and forest school sessions etc. It's time for us to start being demanding I think.

Magrat we tell ds that daddy has to work and ds has to go to school, that that's his 'work'. We tell him that us and his grandparents all went to school etc. it all seems to fall on deaf ears.

dimples he seemed to be, that's what makes it harder I think.

liv what did you do exactly to limit ds' options to get him back to school. Don't worry if you're not comfortable sharing though.

carrie I know you mean well. Ds first started refusing in reception so it's been going on a long time for us and it's a very emotive topic for me.

danni I hope the phone call wasn't too awful. Ds teacher told me today that this week is one of the worst behaviour-wise for kids as they are starting to get very tired at this point in the term.

openupmyeagereyes · 16/03/2022 17:25

I did get ds to do some work with me this morning, so that's something.

carriebradshawwithlessshoes · 16/03/2022 17:34

DD upset as got walloped by a little boy at school who is on the spectrum. Teacher called to tell me. Chatted to DD who is nursing her injury! Frankly I’m just shocked it wasn’t DS for once!!

carriebradshawwithlessshoes · 16/03/2022 17:35

Ooo open are these girls parents at the school?? That sounds like a plan, I am sure this is really common. Why doesn’t your DS have offered what their kids have???

danni0509 · 16/03/2022 17:42

Honestly I’m sick of all this with the taxi now.

She is nice, I do get on with her, she’s lovely to ds and he likes her, but she’s driving me mad with the whole child whisperer act.

She doesn’t like telling ds school if he’s played up in the taxi, she’s done it from the start, they say every morning, how’s he been? She says oh absolutely fine! Regardless.!

He could of literally set her engine on fire and her arrive with smoke bellowing from the engine and she’ll say oh he’s been perfect 🤣 ds teacher has commented on it before, he said does the taxi tell you about any bad behaviour? As she always says he’s fine but he doesn’t look in a ‘fine’ mood. I mean he knows ds and knows there’s no chance he’s good every day. I briefly told him she’s a bit of a jobsworth and takes offence if people think she doesn’t manage him and to take what she says with a pinch of salt, it’s clearly evident when he arrives at school half undressed because he’s stripped in the taxi that’s he’s not been ‘fine’, doesn’t she realise this.

she claims to me she doesn’t want to get him into trouble (which I explained he never gets into trouble at school, it’s genuinely not how they are. They don’t punish the kids for things they do at school never mind in the taxi!)

What it is really (just what I think and I’m not usually wrong 🤣), she coins in on ds run, (£310 a week for the driver and then the PA is paid £10 per hour for 2 hours a day, ds transport costs £410 a week in total) and she’s worried people will think she’s not managing him as she’s said before one of her drivers lost a run because of not being in control of the child, she kisses her own arse that much and thinks she’s mother Theresa she said she was going to try get the run becuase she’s clearly better at sorting these unruly children 🥴.) And also there’s an element of her thinking she’s a parenting god (maybe to normal children but kids with additional needs it’s entirely a different kettle of fish, so she’s embarrassed if he’s playing her up because she takes offence at not being able to control him. (Join the club, I’ve not had any control over him since January 2014!)

Well ds is really stressed with this PA and he keeps attacking her, Monday he marked all her face and ripped a handful of her hair out and today he’s ripped her hoop earring out and bruised all her leg (she showed me purple bruises up her shin) nipped all her arms and done the same purple bruising to her arm, this was on the way to school this morning.

They told me when they dropped him back off, so I said have you told school? She said NO! Why would i? It’s not a school issue, what goes on in my taxi is nothing to do with them, so I said well actually if he’s stressed on the way to school it has a knock on affect and he’s heightened / overstimulated before he gets to school….

do you know what she said to me? No that’s not how he is. He can be naughty at school and fine on the way home and visa versa. It had no relevance to school how he was in the taxi this morning.

I said I beg your pardon! How patronising to his mum to tell me how he works? I think I have a grasp on his needs a bit better than a taxi driver ffs. Of course it has a knock on affect (effect? Fuck knows what word it should be lol) if he’s arriving stressed he won’t instantly switch into a better mood. It’s setting him up for the day.

Anyway I get an email from school at 4pm, ds arrived at school really unsettled. Did x y z (array of challenging behaviour) has been unable to access any learning at all, (done zero work) he’s spent his day in the sensory room and on the school field as he’s been so unregulated.

So I’ve just messaged back, get X (teacher) to ring me tomorrow please and I’ll explain to him.

Ds hates his new PA he’s battering her every day and the taxi is saying he just has to get used to her (6 weeks later…)

No! ds told me she talks to much and makes him stressed. I text taxi this and she said pa is a bit loud and ott and she told Pa not to talk until ds initiated it but today ds said she kept talking to taxi driver about painkillers, so he’s attacked her again (would be easier to just say stop talking please) but obviously he doesn’t work like that.

So her withholding info (for whatever the reason is) from school is pissing me off, its really important because it will be why he’s arriving stressed out and it’s massively impacting upon his day, because hes already stressed when he arrives, I’m going to tell his teacher everything tomorrow, imagine he carried it on, taxi didn’t say anything. School might think they aren’t managing his needs at school and kick him out unaware that there is something specific setting him off. Because the taxi is saying ‘he’s been fine’ so school will only have to assume it’s something at school.

She’s that much of a parenting guru but she doesn’t understand that?. 🥴

OP posts:
danni0509 · 16/03/2022 17:43

If ever I went to university I would smash writing essays! 🤣

OP posts:
danni0509 · 16/03/2022 18:04

The pa is friendly btw, she’s nice to ds, but sometimes ds takes instant dislikes to people, and I’m afraid she appears to be no exception to the rule.

She shouldn’t have to sit in silence, but realistically if ds can’t stand her talking and he’s trapped in a car with her for 30 minutes with no way to escape it, it’s stressing him out so I can totally understand him lashing out as thats what he does. (Although I know it’s not nice for the pa)

I would just appreciate if the taxi could let the school know of these incidents every time they happen, so they will be more understanding of him being unsettled when he arrives and will do activities to regulate him and de-stress him.

They always say to me if he’s had a bad night let us know and we’ll switch his timetable about to reflect this. I always tell them as it’s in ds best interests!

OP posts:
livpotter · 16/03/2022 18:21

Ridiculous to think that being stressed in the taxi wouldn't affect him later on danni. I would be annoyed about that too.

Open we used a mixture of two choices (ie bus or car) lots of cajoling and quite a lot of bribery to sort of herd him where we wanted him. We then locked doors behind us as we went so that he couldn't escape and hide. Literally closing off other ways to run. Like I say not my proudest moment.
The car rides were horrendous and at points not very safe. His school is on about 15mins away and I had to have dh in the car with me to stop having stuff hurled at my head while I was driving. When we got to the school we parked in the enclosed car park and had to have several staff members to help us get him in.
We talked to him about it when he got home in the evening and apologised for making him sad, explained that we were sad too but school was not optional. We never force him to do anything normally so I think he understood that this was something different.
He does seem to understand now that school is non negotiable unless he's unwell. He still grumbles most mornings about going in but without fail seems to have a good day once he's there. I did worry at the time and still do think about how it affects our relationship with ds but thankfully he doesn't seem to hold a grudge about it.

Hope dd is ok Carrie!

openupmyeagereyes · 16/03/2022 19:55

danni ultimately the PA is there to do a job - support your ds. She’s not being paid to blab to the taxi driver for half an hour about her personal life. The driver is also very naive to think that the journey has no bearing on ds mood on arrival at school. Your ds is no different to the rest of us, that sort of thing can have a massive impact.

liv thanks for sharing. It sounds hard but I guess you knew your ds was previously happy and settled which probably had a bearing on your decision.

livpotter · 17/03/2022 06:37

Yes it Definitely did open. I hope you can ds into some of those small group activities, they sound good.

danni0509 · 18/03/2022 04:51

03.23am. Why good morning ds! How wonderful to see you this early said no ever!

getting up middle of the night is starting to grate

OP posts:
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.