Special school to university?

[inappropriatelyemployed]

Does anyone know whether there are any statistics on the numbers of children who have been in specialist provision who go on to university?

Does a specialist school place impede in any way?

I look at reports for some Indy SS and they are often rated very highly by Ofsted but expectations of academic achievement are substantially reduced so you get phrases like 'compares favourably with national averages' even in reports for AS specific provision which is considered outstanding. Why? This wouldn't be considered outstanding for mainstream schools.

I know there is more to Indy SS than academic provision but at 65k a year, you'd be wanting some decent exam results too.

I don't know of any stats but most school's will have a 'moving on' section on their websites with the forward destination of leavers. Past leavers at DS1s school have studied A levels and then gone to university but they are in a minority.

One thing to bear in mind is that the cohort is likely to be too small and too varied to attribute meaning to a school's single year results - there may only be 10 pupils taking GCSE in any one year in a ss compared to 250+ in the local m/s.

I think that when considering whether ss is likely to impede that you should ignore the stats and focus more on what you know about DS. Stats won't tell you what is right for DS. I think you also need to bear in mind that 'impediment' is relative and you should ask in comparison to what - m/s, HE? These stats will be most meaningful at the epidemiological level but quite meaningless in the predictive sense at the individual level in that they will not tell you whether your DS is more or less likely to attend uni if he does or does not attend ss.

DS1's specialist school is opening a Sixth Form in 2014 - they say the official school leaving age rises to 18 in 2015 but I must admit that this has passed me by .

I have no idea how the new EHP or ROSLA would impact on DC currently funded.

I work in a special school, and many children over the years have gone on to University. Obviously, many don't. But the ethos is that if they have the ability, they will be supported to do so...

Thanks. This is really helpful.

Academic achievement is a huge motivator for DS. In a world where everything else seems really tough, he gets a great sense of self-esteem from knowing he has skills and he wants to go to university.

Then I look around hugely expensive schools (65k at one school for a day place) and see they have barely any exam results (it's not about grades, it's about how few kids are even sitting GCSEs) and I wonder how this has happened with all that money being spent.

DS went to a very mixed ability specialist FE College where some were studying horticulture with a view to becoming gardeners and other were studying A levels with a view to HE.

Out of DS's peer group that year of about 30, I think 2 went to Uni.

Unless you are expecting your DS to go to Oxbridge or any od the Russell Group I doubt that coming from SS makes any deifference. The Unis just want sufficient UCAS points and a personal statement.

DS didn't have sufficient UCAS points but still got in to former poly now Uni. He used the degree he got there to go to well-respected Uni for post-grad. He plans to use his 2 Masters to go to Russell Group Uni to work in research. As you can see he's nibbled away at it rather than jumping into top uni - but we always planned it that way.

Sorry IE x-posted with your last post.

You've highlighted the very big problem that I experienced when DS was to ill yo attend his current m/s secondary where he had been doing 11 GCSEs and we were desperately trying to find a special school that could support Aspergers but also permit him to continue GCSE study.

I looked at NHH as it was one of the few SS that did GCSEs. Very few pupils attained them there in those days and the Ofsted reported remarked that it was because although they had the ability to stidy at GCSE level they wre too anxious to do so.

So I looked at m/s with 1:1 support but that wouldn't have provided the 24 hr specilaised care he needed in respect of his Aspergers.
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So I looked at educating him at home via the National Extension College? - I purchased Biology and Chemistry GCSE courses and I taught DS at home. The problem was that I would need to have found somewhere for him to take the exams and that would be difficult to identify. I suppose that sort of Distance Learning course could be studied in parallel with statutory education in ss.

Best solution I found was FE College that did GCSEs in just one year - but only 5 subjects (as repeats for those who had failed). That College was absolutely excellent and he stayed there to take 3 A levels - shame the Govt had closed down the GCSE and A level depts.

So I know what your looking for - specialist placement with good academic opportunities. I think a public school with good discipline (i.e. old grammar school type) with some As specific stuff thrown in or at the very least his AS is accommodated would be a better route than pure SS. Pure SS can, I think, cause more problems for some AS that it solves.

Thanks Wet. I agree with you on that.

I know that DS needs flexibility. Sometimes to be home-schooled and home tutored, sometimes to be in school, sometimes alot of help, sometimes to be left to get on with it.

I also think that, with the HMS, he tires easily with the whole school day which seems to be full of what he would consider to be 'fillers' - art classes he doesn't want to do, socialising he has no interest in, etc etc. I think the curriculum needs to be pared down to the bone to get him through.

But the system says you are either in school or out, in mainstream or special and that is it. Or at least my LA's approach is that.

I suspect it is all because there are clear funding streams attached to each schooling option and that doing something different means money has to be found anew.

LA still hadn't made a decision about a home ed package for him but were supposed to be having a 'Panel' last week when we were away. Not sure what the outcome of that was but we came back to a phone message from their specialist placement officer.

I suspect pretending they are looking to place him in a SS will make them look like they are doing something.

What on earth was the point of a meeting at the end of term with all parties agreeing an HE package?

The local SSs only offer GCSEs via local mainstream schools. This instantly excludes a lot of pupils who might have the capability academically, if they can't cope with going into a different environment - the change and the other school might both be overwhelming for them. This would vertainly be the case for DS1 and I don't see how he could sit a full range of GCSEs in that situation without spending all of his time in the mainstream school - which would defeat the object, in many ways, of him having a SS placement (and, which i think would also be unachievable for him unless something major changed in his reaction to the environment and people around him.) One of the local SSs did recently send someone to Cambridge to study maths, by this route. The Indy SS we want him to go to has also achieved this. Their GCSE results don't look that impressive, but their intake is above average rather than superselective IYKWIM and many boys take exams early, so those results aren't included.

Thanks zzz. The thing is, I think he functions so much better OUT of school and I'm not convinced that training him to do 'life skills' at school will be any benefit to him as an adult when he can actually learn to do the life skill itself out of school in real life.

He can pay to get on a bus, he cooks with me, he can order things in a cafe, he can buy things in a shop etc etc. I am constantly exposing him to real life.

I am also teaching him how to manage tiredness and other difficulties. He is starting to learn that saying he has to do things differently because he has AS is fine and so far he has found the real world a whole lot more accommodating about this than schools ever have been.

So I am not sure what a SS would offer him academically or otherwise to be honest though they would allow me to work more.

Ourvye - this seems to be the way with ASD 'resource bases' here. You have to be somewhere else other than the base to learn so I don't see the point as you then have a TA go with you in to m/stream if you can't cope on your own. I'm not sure how inclusive that really is as you must stick out like a sore thumb.

I have a friend who has HE'd her son. He is now 14 and has 6 GCSEs. She has just concentrated on stuff he is interested in and only started formal teaching when he was about 12.

I just think we overpack our school days and for DS this is a nightmare. All the Indy SS we have looked at do loads of photography, art, D&T, etc all of which DS would hate beyond measure

The main advantage I can see of a resource base is as a social hub and place to escape and plan coping mechanisms for a child who can manage with just a little bit of support. Our LA doesn't have any of those, anyhow. DS1 definitely needs something more than that.

DS1 likes practical stuff and would love the STEM bias of the school we want. He's been going to the B&Q Kids Can Do It classes with DH and is learning some basic woodworking and power tool skills and really enjoying it.

"It's important to learn how to cope with, people letting you down, losing friends, getting dragged along into something unwise, and of course the dealing with teachers/other authority figures who are unfair/unpleasant/annoying"

Did you learn this from school? I am not sure I did!!

I think that you need to think about whether you/he want to gain university level qualifications or whether you/he want to actually attend university.

Different skills are required for actual attendance. We give slack to 1st year undergrads because they may also be dealing with living independently for the first time. NT DC can learn this and still achieve academically but some DC need advance training to deal with the non-academic.

Ultimately you need to promote sufficient independence to be able to benefit from university education and build a life.

Keep - I have got university qualifications this is not about me. It is solely about him.

DS is functioning well outside school and he is only 10. He has friends. He is not suffering from generalised anxiety. I see no reason for this not to grow and for him to develop further in confidence and ability to cope by the time he is 18.

What I have learnt about life, I learnt outside school: academically and socially. Entirely.

That goes for my Oxbridge degree too - which was effectively self-taught and university taught me bollocks all about the real world.

I am not going to lower my expectations about life for either of my boys at this age - socially, academically, or in any other way.

I wouldn't do it for DS2 and I am not doing it for DS1

I am not having him glued to me. I work. He will have to get on with things and I will pay for tutoring when I can.

But 65k a year for what I have seen is a bloody disgrace and I say that as a parent and tax payer.

Sounds like you have made your mind up?

Act on it - you will make it work because, when tested, you believe in your choice.

Well, if I had any choice the LA would be paying for this as this is what we have asked for but given the call, it looks like they're going to start looking at SS. Probably thinking, she won't want that, she'll take him out and we will get away scot free without paying for anything.

We'll see about that.

IE You're making a convincing case for home educating him (perhaps without realising it )

I cannot see what an SS will give him either. I doubt it would provide much social interaction for him. It could be adverse if he's the sort of Aspie that copies challenging behaviour in others.

At school he would have to follow the national curriculum - trying to get disapplied from the subjects he has no interest in will probably be impossible. The Prof who dx'd DS told us never to make him do things he was no good at and had no interest in e.g. French. It would just make him lose confidence and get bored. If you home ed'd you could drop the stuff he had no interest in.

I stumbled across the NEC and their range of distance learning courses when I met 2 children who had been withdrawn from school (bullying and I strongly suspect an element of ASD was involved) and home ed'd. One of the children was 14 and already had a handful of GCSEs obtained via the NEC. They also had a confidence of the sort that public schools manage to instil.

Having a school / home split to probably just too extraordinary for the LA as they would have to split the funding etc.

If I was doing it all over again with the benefit of knowing that DS was an Aspie an how it affected him then at age 11 he would have left junior school and never been sent to secondary school.

I would have home ed'd via the NEC and would have bought in tutors and childcare/ nannies when I needed a break. I would have entered him privately for GCSEs whenever he was ready to take them. I'd also have used other resources such as the OU TV broadcasts and Radio 4 documentaries. The NEC chemistry course was do-able in an ordinary household kitchen We had great fun making our own litmus paper and identifying acids and alkaline via everyday household liquids e.g. letting coca cola dissolve limescale.

You're lucky - your DS is at an age where you could actually sit down and plan the next part of his education up to post-16 and beyond. You would be out of the grip of the LA with the frustrations that brings and would also avoid the bullying that undoubtedly happens to any child who is perceived as 'different'.

Thanks Wet. I've known that this is the way to go for a while but had thought we might at least get the LA to contribute to this as all other parties involved agree it is the best option - school, SLT, EP and OT. Or lawyer and advocate did, I always suspected they would just fuck me about.

Our lawyer was going to get in touch if there was positive news while we were away and she hasn't and the call from this LA woman suggests the LA are going down the SS route.

I think they have a pathological hatred of doing anything outside the norm and will say, of course, that they are 'concerned' for DS which is probably why they have fought every ounce of his provision thus far. All in his own best interests.

To be free if them would be bliss, but will speak to lawyer on Monday to see what the next step is.

Well good luck with it as it is a very big step - but you know that.

It would be nice to get something out of them for all your efforts. Perhaps an agreement that he can sit public exams on their school premises - it's hard to find places otherwise.

I imagine they'll suggest somewhere completely inappropriate deliberately in the hope we will just walk away rather than force him to attend somewhere unsuitable.