Special school to university?

[inappropriatelyemployed]

Does anyone know whether there are any statistics on the numbers of children who have been in specialist provision who go on to university?

Does a specialist school place impede in any way?

I look at reports for some Indy SS and they are often rated very highly by Ofsted but expectations of academic achievement are substantially reduced so you get phrases like 'compares favourably with national averages' even in reports for AS specific provision which is considered outstanding. Why? This wouldn't be considered outstanding for mainstream schools.

I know there is more to Indy SS than academic provision but at 65k a year, you'd be wanting some decent exam results too.

For me, my son couldn't cope with being in classy and just refused to go in. I started going in myself to help him but he was really struggling.

Then he started getting really upset at the idea of just being in school. Really distressed.

The EP and GP recommended he take a complete break.

But he had had enough of trying to fit in for years and settled much better to work out of school. His self-esteem returned and his well-being.

School's view, as well as mine, was what is he getting out of being in school?

So we have tried with support of EP, SLT, OT and school to get some tutoring support.

LA have done nothing for months and now, despite knowing that CAMHS have twice said that this is a matter for educational services, have again delayed arranging anything by saying they are going to ask for him to be assessed by CAMHS.

My DS had no choice - his school life was abruptly terminated aged 15 when he had a breakdown due to the mental and physical abuse he received at school. We removed him on medical advice. For 4 months he had no schooling whatsoever, then a few months of home tuition, then 7 months in the Hospital school.

The problem with Aspies is that their dodgy radar means they will tolerate situations for much longer than NTs would - hence we had no idea just how bad things were for him at school until it was too late - a situation that was exacerbated by the incompetent and lying staff at the school who maintained he wasn't being bullied - he just 'perceived' he was being bullied.

That's why I said to IE upthread that, given my time again, DS would have left school after juniors and never been put through the trauma of secondary.

Wet, I agree with you 100% about Aspies tolerating situations until they can do so no more.

DS has hated school and even when moved to a different school he quickly became ambivalent and made constant comment about how his TA embarrassed him or was mean to him. I raised these things with school but did not push them as it always comes down to his 'perception'. And you're damned if you get involved and damned if you don't. But I didn't trust his TA as I know she had lied to my face on a couple of occasions and he is so ruthlessly honest that I knew something was not right.

An OT came into school last year and I spoke to her about it. She spoke to him and then said 'he only goes to school to please you'.

I tried to do something about it and instructed an ABA therapist to help motivate him and structure his day better with breaks etc and to help train staff to support him better. But that led to nothing as all this consultant was interested in was complicated data gathering by a TA wholly ill-equipped to do this to ascertain whether DS was really anxious (how is this determined??) and to 'teach' DS to 'listen to grown ups'. Because this, of course, was his primary problem!

So I do think DS has been forced into an alien situation for years. This might be of some benefit if life really reflected the weird institutionalised environment of school but it doesn't. Instead, intervention always seems to be applied to 'train' children to fit into a framework and timetable on the basis that if they can be taught to do this at school at 10, this is good training for life in a completely different social environment at 18 or 21 or 30 etc. I think this reasoning is wholly flawed. The real world is random not structured.

My concern is that SS stil follow the same routines and structure of ordinary schools and I don't really understand why. Children are still taught in homogenous blocks and there still seems to be a need to teach all the kids the same thing at the same time in the same way - even if there is differentiation for levels and more resources.

I have not seen a school so far which says it is fine to come in part time and do the GCSEs you want and we can arrange different ones if you don't want to follow our art laden curriculum. At 30-70k a year for day pupils, this flexibility is what I exactly would expect as a very minimum. But they seem to follow the same formal school structure but just with smaller classes, specialised provision and some OT and SLT on hand. It all seems pretty costly and un inspirational. And I am not sure any of this gets to what the core of the problem is for DS in a learning situation.

Don't get me wrong. I am not advocating HE as intrinsically better or SS as bad or mainstream as incapable of supporting AS children on a general level. I have only seen a few SS in this area but they are 'big names'. I just would expect that level of resourcing to open the door to wholly different ways of teaching and learning but it doesn't seem to.

But I also think it is a more general problem about schools and education and one which is likely to get worse.

Tony Attwood says the same - school is a hostile environment for a child with ASD.

You're right to question why these expensive SS / Indies cannot be more flexible. Some of it is lack of imagine as to what strategies will work - hence sticking to the tried and tested, OT, SLT etc. They also have to keep Ofsted happy and Ofsted have very little idea of what a proper school for ASD should look like as they criticised DS's former specialist FE college for ridiculous things that simply didn't apply to Aspies! And then there's their own prestige to think of and how they feature in the league tables. If their kids have a very difficult time during GCSEs the best way of avoiding low GCSEs scrores is not to make the exam available to them. So everything is structured towards the school and it's inspectors / overseeing authorities rather than the child.

I sometimes wonder whether an Aspie would be better suited in somewhere like Summerhill where the education is pupil-driven? I have often wondered whether they've has any Aspies and how they fared there.

I cant find any special schools in this city that even offer GCSE's, let alone A levels. Given there's no mainstream secondaries (my dd is in mainstream primary) that can cope with her severe physical disabilities (she uses a communication device as well) this doesnt look hopeful. She's as bright as her siblings who are all at university.
So its like her chances are blocked just because she has cerebral palsy. I'm still fighting because she isnt going to rot in somewhere not suitable. she deserves and education and university.

Classic. Letter from LA to solicitor today. The meeting we held in July was not, they have decided retrospectively, a transition meeting (although all who attended agreed it was) and they want school to hold another one in autumn.

They also want DS reintegrated into school! I think they think CAMHS is going to help them force him back in.

So that is it. Views of everyone at meeting, including school, ignored. They will offer some tutoring in the interim until DS is 'reintegrated' back to school.

Utter bunch of shits.

CAMHS obviously have some readjustment programme he can undertake to make him 'normal'

Not helpful but I hate CAMHS with a vengeance, and only engage to avoid accusations of disengagement from services. They are in cahoots with the LA, and I sometimes wonder why they don't realise when a child is failed, the need for their services would be higher. Surely it's in their interest for a child's needs to be met?

However some friends have found the a way to get CAMHS to disengage from the child, simply by consulting a private practitioner and keeping CAMHS informed

Thanks. When I spoke to CAMHS they were unusually helpful in their willingness not to want o be involved! Their view was that this was being sorted out educationally and that was enough for them.

I wouldn't want to put DS through psychological assessments he just doesn't need and pay for this to avoid a crappy CAMHS service I feel this is what we have been doing with services for years!

Wet
It was interesting to note that after I'd removed ds from school, all the people who had been involved with him whilst at school (autism outreach, CAMHS, SALT and EP etc) agreed off-record that mainstream school was no place for a child with autism, even at the higher functioning end of the spectrum, yet whilst he was still there those same people had been ppressing for inclusion and assuring me that it would work. The system is stacked against us.

I've often said that the current education system (particularly where SN is concerned) isn't about meeting the needs of the child, but appearing to meet the needs of the child, on paper at least. They're all just statistics and what really matters is the school, OFSTED, league tables and individual professionals' CVs. Children are mere inconveniences.

I'm sure there's someone from here who sent her DC to Summerhill because of the low pressure environment.

The indy school we want DS1 to go to doesn't go that far, but has a slightly anarchic vibe to it, that we like. That talk of de-sensitisation at once SS i visited, this year, made my heart sink. In contrast, Indy school sad they'd realised that whole school assemblies were pretty pointless. Instead of a modern, cavernous, echoey hall where children are forced to all gather together, there is a lovely dark, wood panelled, carpeted room where informal, non-compulsory meetings are sometimes held. (And it's a Quaker run school, so their idea of "collective worship" is a very understated, aspie friendly affair, anyhow!)

"Children are mere inconveniences."

Streaky - I think that sums are situation up entirely. Two meetings attended by all professionals all agree not to force him back to school and yet we get this nonsense. Where is the best interests of the child?

Ourvye - very interesting to hear. Where is your school?

Streaky - I do think that DS2 copes with school far better than DS1. Flexibility helps though. And he does spend a lot of time with his 1:1, but she works well with him. The fact that he compartmentalises a lot means that he does learn some things at school which don't click at home, because he doesn't consider those things to be my job to do with him. He definitely misses the stimulus and the other children in the holidays.

DS1, OTOH, would probably be happy if he never had to spend time in a room with anyone under 18 ever again!

It's one I've mentioned to you before, IE - all the way up (down, to us!) in North Yorkshire. (Though North Yorks being North Yorks, it's harder to get a place, if you live there, than it is in surrounding LAs!)

I've noticed a rash of autism schools in our region, recently, when there were very few, a few years ago.

This one is a non-starter for either of my boys, though - as is made clear on this page. There's another one opening in our county, but I can find very little information about it, other than it's run by the same group as one in Sunderland - which only offers vocational options at 14-16 and 16+

Streaky - totally agree with everything you said.

IE - they're going round in circles. It's pure procrastination and obfuscation. It needs to stop. I feel you either HE or move LAs as you will get nothing from continuing to deal with these fuckwits. As far as keeping him out of the clutches of CAMHS - when the CAMHS consultant totally bodged DS's diagnosis I told CAMHS I was going to private psychologist for 2nd opinion. At that point my CAMHS asked me if I wanted to opt out of their services or wait until I had private report and go back to them - you may be able to do the same to get shot of them. Plus they have great long waiting list so if you tell them he's 'got better' they'll probably be grateful to remove him from their list. Plus by HE-ing there is no need for a CAMHS assessment.

Twisty Do not give up on GCSEs. She is entitled to an education suitable for her ages and ability. So if she could follow GCSE cirric they must provide this. They tried to disenrole DS from an Art GCSE course he had been following before he was forced out of school. I objected. The Art teacher signed and said @parents usually get their way if they kick up enough fuss' - words I remembered to keep me on tract

Have to stop typing kitten keeps walking on keyboard

Ourvye - in the decreasingly likely event that our house-sale goes through (we have imposed deadline tomorrow for our and the boys sanity) that is where I would like my boys to go too. Going to have a fight on our hands just a matter of whether it will have to be our current location or North Yorkshire. According to the LA any good, inclusive mainstream school will meet ds2's needs - strangely they have not been able to name one yet! CAMHS, his old school and we all agree that he can not cope with mainstream. As he refused to do virtually any written work after I pulled him out of school towards the end of last term I am not sure home-schooling is a realistic option for us. He will do maths and read but not a lot else.

Oneineight - he might need to 'detox' from school before moving forward with work and settling into a new routine.

Wet - CAMHS have already discharged DS so this is total prevarication and bullying as you say. They are disgraceful.

he might need to 'detox' from school before moving forward with work and settling into a new routine
It's recommended to give a month of deschooling for every year the child has been in school, but where trauma is involved it can take a lot longer. Ds was out of school over a year before he was calm enough to tackle any thing resembling 'proper' school work, and he still doesn't do much under my direction - he produces best with a tutor. As has been said throughout this thread, you have to strike a balance with what suits the child and you won't know when yours is recovered from school until it happens.

The hard part for most parents is getting themselves out of the school way of thinking - it can be harder for the parents than it is for the children, at times.

That is interesting StreakyBacon - I have to say the main reason I tried to get him to do something was to pacify his twin brother who I was still taking to his school - not a very good reason I know - and we certainly have not been doing anything since the summer holidays started. I had thought he would start to be more relaxed since stopping school but not really so far but what you say suggests I am looking for changes far too soon.

OneInEight - our Ed Psych recommended small group teaching with specialist teachers for DS1 - we're hoping the LA don't insist that the LA can provide that, because it simply doesn't happen. He currently spends a lot of time with his TA because of his ability to consistently spend all day with his current class of 20 and she admits that she's struggling to keep up with his mental speed when it comes to maths.

There's at least half a dozen travel down from our LA, so I'm crossing my fingers.

Crossing fingers for your house sale btw :)

I agree. You definitely have to get your head out of school mode.

It is really appalling that children are driven out of the system like this though. People wouldn't believe it, would they? LAs are massive bullies.

Well, DS1 announced today that he hates being home as much as he hates being at school :(

I don't think it helps that DS2 has been seriously pushing his buttons (it's not a particularly esoteric art - all you need to do is appear to be vaguely looking in his direction - the 9yo equivalent of "did you spill my pint?")

It's making me dread autumn term more than ever. It's always pretty dramarific, but last year it was dramarific after spending summer with a different boy from the angry one of term time. He's not experienced that resolution and calm, this summer. The only thing that stopped me from pulling him out, when he was struggling, last year was evidence - it's not as if school were sitting back and letting him fail. They've always done their utmost, within the realms of possibility, not to fail him. If the outcome of AR/panel isn't immediately satisfactory, I've no idea what I'll do if it happens again, this year.

As you were (DH is upstairs repartitioning a hard drive. I have too much time to think]