MMR!!!! Have just cancelled it.

[HolyCalamityJane]

Hi Everyone.

Just need your advice on this. My DS had an appt to get MMR this morning. My DD has ASD traits, ADHD and dyspraxia and so therefore I have fears that DS who is a happy smiley boy will change once I get this done.

I know there is no hard evidence linking the 2 but I would never forgive myself if all of a sudden he changes after he has it.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Dolfrog, you really should be apologising to me and PinjinJo and others, not providing links to more papers.

You have read PinjinJo's dramatic and awful story on here. How can you spout your 'scientifc papers' above that?

The paeds she's involved with don't believe it's a 'temporal co-incidence' - they believe there was a problem with the MMR and advised her to giver her DS no more vaccinations.

I was told the same thing. That his problems were caused by his vaccinations and to give him no more vaccinations.

You are so naive and rude. And lack any traits of compassion and empathy.

How has your APD caused all of that? Are you sure you're not in denial about the fact that you have ASD as well as APD?

Wakefield and his study is such a tiny part of the evidence that vaccine damage causes ASD, that refuting the Wakefield study (which your paper doesn't do) means nothing.

But either way. No matter what you think your scientific papers saying. You are being a huge and hurtful twat.

dolfrog, I haven't got a problem with you having your own opinion. The fact that the vast majority on here disagree with you isn't the issue for me. The issue for me is the way you're putting your "point" across. I don't just want to repeat what has already been said, but do you not take peoples feelings and personal experiences into consideration atall?! Like I say, I respect peoples rights to disagree, but I don't respect people who are rude, hurtful and completely thoughtless.

This is slightly off topic, but there have been studies from US, UK and Scandinavia which conclude that rates of asc are significantly higher for prem babies than on the general population. From that I would conclude that ascs are not entirely genetic and that environment plays a part.

Pippinjo I'm so sorry to hear your story, but very glad you are getting it out on mn.

My own ds experienced a catastrophic illness as a baby and spent many months paralysed. While I'm very glad that he's alive I do think its time for medics to stop hiding behind the 'ascs are all genetic' excuse.

Indeed if environment played no part in in all ascs then how come some children make such good progress with aba or diet?

Oh research is moving onto environmental factors

archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/archgenpsychiatry.2011.76

and a laymans resport of that paper:

www.rodale.com/causes-autism-0?page=0,0

A whole range of environmental factors are being studied. You're just not allowed to suggest (or study) vaccinations as one of those

saintly Am very interested in the role diet plays as ds1 has recently gone on a "healthy eating plan" and it has made a big difference to him.

His diet before wasnt bad per se (he doesnt eat chocolate or sweets and only drinks water and milk) but was very carb heavy. He now eats more protien, fruit puree and less saturated fat. He also has omega 3, zinc and magnesium supplements.

IMHO asd has multiple causes....genetic and environment included. Its such a vastly differing spectrum, its causes will be differing for each person affected, surely?

Thanks again everyone for all your comments/ advice etc.
Have now absolutely decided that I made the right decision and DS will NOT be getting the MMR.
I am due to take him this coming Thursday for jabs for Hib/ Men C and for PCV (can you believe they wanted him to have those AND the MMR in one sitting) Anyway my question is should I just say I want one at a time and take a 6 month break inbetween and if so which jab is most important out of those 2?

Also for single measles jab what age do you recommend I should wait until I get this done? And then would you leave it a year until getting Rubella?

Your thoughts appreciated????

Thanks again you have all convinced me I am doing the right thing and I cannot thank you all enough for that xx

Agree beca - given that autism has multiple causes there is certainly more than one route to autism. I don't believe ds1 shares anything with someone with AS where it runs through the family. Not in how it affects him nor in how it developed.

Unfortunately many research papers (less so these days) have treated autism as one thing.

Calamity, I am not at all impressed they wanted to give him all those jabs in one day! The NHS recommendation is for there to be a minimum of 1 month between Hib/Men C PCV and MMR administration. I was told this by my GP when I was discussing when to have them done.

Not sure if they'll do the first lot separately, sorry. Dd hasn't had those either yet. If they will, I'd feel like the Hib/MenC is the more important of the two - but that's just my gut feeling on it.

Will watch this thread with interest to see if anyone has any suggestions for the best age to go for single jabs. Still not sure if I'm going to do it, but if I am I feel that before she starts school would be appropriate.

I had the non mmr ones done when my son was younger and the triple jab booster later. That was for the second round. About a year between the two I think. Some pressure from hv such ad the usual uninformed Wakeful was struck off. That was all she knew. Ultimately even though they had to spout the party line it was my choice.

No its not good to cram loads into one day. The body needs time to process what its been given and recover. I think doing too much in one day could potentially (worse case scenario) cause problems.

I have not given DS or DD any vaccinations at all. I did give DS the BCG at 6 weeks (we have to give it here) and then was so worried about what I had done that I began to research the whole thing - then decided to do no more!!

Richard Halverson has written a very good book. I cannot remember what it is called - but is the best one I've ever read on the subject. Its very very balanced - not pro either way. I still felt sure after reading it though that I didn't want to vaccinate DS.

I went to see Richard Halvorsen in his clinic in London - its called Baby Jabs - you can pay to get individual jabs done there. He basically said that because DS was nearly 5 it was not really worth getting any jabs done for him now. He says the most vulnerable times are for babies. That said DD is a baby and I am not giving her any either.

Am at them wanting to give so many vaccs in one go!!!???

Sigh. All to do with money probably....less clinics to run, less staff to pay....

I delayed one of ds2s jabs (think it was his 2nd lot) as he had been ill so he was 6 weeks "late" for that lot and then his 3rd lot were 4 weeks after that.

I didnt give them a reason, just rang up and cancelled.

Ds2 is due his booster next spring and - up to now - he will be having it as he will be exposed to many more infections and mingling with other dc whose mothers may be pg.

I was very at five at a time. Much cheaper, yes.

Becaroo I let DS have the second MMR (separately from the other school boosters) for those very reasons and I was terrified.

Just to let you know, he was fine this time, but then he is a very substantial four year old. I'm glad I did it that way.

Sorry, that sounded very stupid. Of course just because my son was fine doesn't mean it'll be okay for everyone's DC

We did look into getting just the single Rubella since he caught measles after MMR and the mumps has been known to wear off at adolescence anyway. DS barely noticed chicken pox and swine flu when he was ill with them so that was one of our other options.

Yes, mists ds2 is very sturdy too! If he werent or I was worried in any way about his health then that would be another matter.....

Ds1 (who was a very sick neonate and infant) was fine with chicken pox...he complained of a headache on one day and had about 20 spots. There was a young boy in his class who got very sick though was in hospital for weeks (the virus attacked his joints) but that is pretty rare I think.

Ds2 had chicken pox as a nenoate (he was 4 months) so will no doubt get them again.

at "sturdy". That's a good one.

It's so difficult... I have a history of not getting rubella immunity. Had the booster at fifteen and even had it as a child, no question, but still had to be jabbed again literally at the door of the maternity ward with both DC.

All the best to you and your DS'

Really? Poor you!

I had the MMR btw - when ds1 had his.....the numpty of a nurse jabbed my hand instead of ds1's thigh!!!!

Never really thought anything of it til we were talking to ds1's paed and he was horrified!!!

Ds2 is 95th centile for height and weight The 4+ teacher at ds1's school thoight he was starting in her class last september....

Me: Erm, no. He's not 3 yet!

x

Accidental MMR! That was erm, rather unprofessional

DS amazes me. He eats no protein-rich food at all. Not meat, fish, beans, pulses, cheese, eggs BUT he drinks a lot of milk. The dietician said not to worry as long as it is coming from somewhere.

I suppose it could be worse. Milk isn't a bad food (or so I keep telling myself when I pack his carb / veg / fruit lunch box contents each day) as it sustains us during the first year and biggest period of growth we will ever have. I still feel like a shite parent doing it but the advantage of having him in a SS is that it's not an issue.

hahahaha...our ds's must be twins then *mist!

Ds2 also eats no fish/meat/poultry or eggs!

However, he is growing great so I/we must be doing something right!

Ds2 does eat quite a bit of fruit and will eat some veg but his diet is pretty restricted really. He hasnt drunk milk since he was 1.2 (it makes him sick - like me!) but he does have cheese and fromage frais.

ds1 (8.5) by contrast has warm milk morning and night still!

Am thinking of getting ds2 a supplement but not sure which one.....

Ok, need advice now. Ds2 is lactose intollerant and it does seem to follow a pattern with his immunisations. He is just slowly (over a year) tolerant of cheese and chocolate, but due his pre school and knee boosters (he's four in march) how important are these boosters? How much immunity will he already have from the first 13months of injections? I'm thinking of cancelling and not giving him any boosters but need help.

Knee = mmr BTW

I dont know smokin

I know my own reasons for giving the booster but they may not apply to you. Is your ds2 under a paed for his gut issues? Perhaps ask them?

No, no paed. Been discharged over a year, been told to reintroduce things slowly, hence the now tolerance of cheese etc. I just wanted to know how much the immunity protection drops between 13months and the booster, and whether there was any great risk in putting his boosters off until he was older.