MMR!!!! Have just cancelled it.

[HolyCalamityJane]

Hi Everyone.

Just need your advice on this. My DS had an appt to get MMR this morning. My DD has ASD traits, ADHD and dyspraxia and so therefore I have fears that DS who is a happy smiley boy will change once I get this done.

I know there is no hard evidence linking the 2 but I would never forgive myself if all of a sudden he changes after he has it.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Does your DD have ASD? ginnybag?

The whole MMR issue and autism is pure media hype now as it has been shown to have no scientific basis. Many parents who like this explanation as a cause of autism, are mostly those in denial of the genetic links and their own possible autistic traits.
Regression has always been part of the early onset of autism and is not related to MMR.

By all means express your opinion about the mmr and the arguments behind it.

But please stop saying things like "many people who like this explanation....denial...etc etc'

It has the unfortunate consequence of making you sound like a massive twat.

dolfrog - it's incredibly rude to say to people whose baby has regressed within 24 hours of having a vaccination, that you know the 2 facts were co-incidental.

Especially since lots and lots and lots of people are reporting the same phenomena

There is no way you can possibly know that the vaccination did not cause the regression. There is no way scientists can know what happened to my baby - they have not studied him.

You are being incredibly rude.

Please stop insulting me and other people on this forum.

I'm not at all in denial of the genetic links to autism and can see the genetic family trail, as it were, on both sides of our family BUT I also believe the genetic link, for some, extends as far as a potential/tendency which may or may not be triggered by any number of factors - one of which, for some, can imho be vaccination.

I don't believe my ds1's autism was caused by the MMR, but I am pretty sure it badly affected his immune system and was highly suspect in causing a lot of his digestive problems. He was literally never ill prior to the MMR, yet pretty much immediately after having it he became extremely weak and debilitated, had virus after virus, developed repeated scarlett fever infections that wouldn't respond to treatment and his lymph nodes were inflamed for over a year.

Both my boys had their MMR (ds1 had both sets, although I delayed his pre-schools after his bad reaction to the first lot and ds2 only had the first lot and still hasn't had his pre-school booster at nearly 8 years old) but dd (NT and 3 years old) hasn't had it at all. I was waiting until she had passed 3 years old, but my gut instinct (not to be confused with fear or panic) is still telling me not to. So far she has shown absolutely no sign of ASD, whereas ds1 is dxd and ds2 has definite traits, just not enough for a dx.

I am not 100% comfortable with my decision. I worry about her contracting measles and not only the effect it could have on her, but also on others she may infect if she does get it. It has not been an easy decision for me/us and I would say its probably still a decision in progress rather than a done deal. I am currently thinking that, if I can find somewhere reputable, I may go for the single jabs and she will just have to wait for the mumps element until she is older.

My genetics are fine thanks. Had measels and my body handled it fine. Expecting to hand down measle-handling properties through my genetics.

We were in your position. My eldest 4 had every jab going and we have a host of ASD / ADHD/ dyspraxia issues and bowel problems among them.

When DC5 came along we were much more cautious. We paid for a consultation with Dr Halvorsen and after discussion about our family history decided to have the single measles. We will pay for the singe rubella when she is 11.

I'm really glad we made that decision because she is showing signs of ADHD and dyspraxia now that she is older.

everything always has to eb black and white for you, dolfrog, doesn't it?

sadly, life in the real world is not set up that way. I wish it was a simple as you make out.

but there is not single cause (or route to) autism, jsut as there is no single 'autism'

OP: agree with pagwatch. you have to reach a decision that is rigth and comfortable for you and your family. and if you decide not to go ahead (with mmr or any other jab), this is not a final, irreversible decision - I have an unvaccinated child, and dh and I discuss regularly the implications, what to do now etc. as we will for number 3 when it arrives.

I am so glad I posted this on here. I tend to find that all the people I know who have NT children are telling me "It's all crap/ hype about the MMR" I was infact one of those . All I know now is that my DD has had adverse reactions to all her vaccinations she has come out with a rash all over her body high temperature etc. I have yet to meet someone who says they regret NOT having the MMR but as this thread shows there are plenty of us who regret having it for one of our children.

Dolfrog- I welcome everyone's opinions but agree with Indigo the way you come across is very very rude. I would not normally make such a comment but hate to see you upsetting people on this forum who have enough shit to deal with!

I agree that all vacinations are dangerous to some. For me it was the whooping cough. It was in 3 stages then. First one ill, high temp. Second high temp, had a fit and coma like sleep so my mother was advised not to have 3rd. I suffered with fits ever since last jab, had to have meds and didnt stop till my late teens early 20s. Had small pox and I blew up like a balloon and had infection so I have had no other jabs in my life and nor did my siblings.

I avoided whooping cough with all 3 of mine as it says if family had reaction avoid but boy did I get the perverbial bullying from HVs!

DS did have his MMR but he was nearly 18 months when he had it. Also a friend and I did some research and found that a brand called Priorix had some ingredients (for want of a better word!) omitted from it that had been in the one commonly used and under suspicion at the time. I argued and so did she and refused till they got this one in the surgery. DS then had his jab and he was fine. I also insisted for his next course aswell.

Difficult thing is I am not in a position to say that any jab wont affect your child, to be honest neither can a HV or doctor, no one can do that, so it is entirely your own personal choice. You have to trust your instincts. x

I also had measles and so am immune, I had blood test for children and they are immune without catching it so I guessed I passed something good on

Hi, Holy. I, too, believe in vaccinations. But my DS2 with ASD, who showed traits before his MMR, hasn't had his booster and DS3 hasn't had either MMR. They have had all the others. They have never had an adverse reaction, luckily. DS3 is a robust if quirky 9 yo now, and I keep thinking I should get him vaccinated at some point before secondary. I just couldn't actively choose to give him something that I wasn't 100% sure wouldn't harm him. Completely your choice, my GP has never criticised me.

Dd3 has had seperate measles and rubella, She already had ASD traits before she was supposed to have MMR and she had really bad reactions to the first 2 baby vaccines.

I am really lucky to have a private GP around the corner from me who does single vaccines although I have heard that the mumps one is no longer available so I guess we will have to take a chance on that.

I had to save up between jabs so she was late having all of them but I wouldn't change my desision now.

Good luck.

Our family has a history of reactions to vaccinations as well. Afaik I was ok, althought my mum had severe, prolonged PND with me and doesn't remember a lot from that time, but both of my sisters had adverse reactions ranging from mild to serious to various jabs, with my younger sister going into shock in the clinic after her MMR and then going on to be seriously ill.

We also have a raft of autoimmune disorders on both sides of the family.

Forgot to mention it before, but these were also factors in my decision.

When ds1 had his, I was a lot younger, naive and trusting and took the doc's/hv's advice without question. I did delay his boosters until he was 5 though, having made the connection between the jab and his immune problems. I have come a long way since then.

Ds2 had his first set when I had PND, was pretty much zombified and went along with the standard schedule. By the time his pre-schools were due I had recovered, was back in control and willing and able to do a bit of research.

silverfrog
"everything always has to eb black and white for you, dolfrog, doesn't it?"
No, I live in the middle of various shades of grey.

However when there is an extensive body of international research which disproves specific links, then there has to be some alternative unscientific reasons for such beliefs. There are any areas of understanding many complex issues which contribute to the multiple causes of ASD issues, but MMR is not one of them.

To make assumptions about why people believe what they do about the mmr is inappropriate and rude.

Believing yourself to be in the right does not excuse crass and rude behaviour.

It places you back in the area of twatdom.

the specific body of international research does not disprove any links - it categorically did not even try to replicate what was done in the original case series.

let alone the fact that a full gov inquiry since then has dismissed most of that international body of research as seriously flawed. and also said that safety trials on the mmr were (and are) inadequate. the government's own report

but anyway, that is by the by. I suggest you search for Beachcombers posts on this subject - mostly in the vaccination section - if you want to read up on why those studies were flawed.

My DS, 7, has many ASD traits and is currently being assessed (waiting for a DISCO - 12 month waiting list here). My eldest BIL is autistic and has additional LDs and the rest of DH's family have many many traits, DH included. When it was time to get the MMR I felt that it was highly likely that DS was going to be on the spectrum/continuum somewhere BUT I didn't want to take even the tiniest risk of making it worse so DS had single vaccines for rubella and measles but has not had the mumps one. (The guy who did the vaccines advised me to wait and see if he got 'wild' mumps and if he hadn't had it by the onset of puberty to then get the MMR done.)
DD has also has Rubella and Measles but not Mumps. If I had a third (highly unlikely but I'd love it if it happened!) then they will not have the MMR either and I'm not too sure about the 5 in 1 either.
I was called a 'hysterical, band waggon jumping woman' by my HV.

silverfrog

if you read the research and medical investigations, you will see that the original MMR and autism research was flawed and then had distorted and false research added to support it.
The only people promoting the link between MMR and autism is the industry playing on the frailties of parents who have children diagnosed as having ASD.

dolfrog, if you read the original research, and just about anything since which actually addresses what the paper said (rather than addressing what the media reported the paper to have said), you will see that is not the case.

I have read it, thanks. there was no false data, no distortion.

anyway, I have said my bit. the SN section is not the place for this type of debate. I will happily answer any further queries on the thread that is already runnign in the vaccination section.

The pharmacutical industry is also an industry.

I am pro vaccination.

HOWEVER I am also pro parent and if a parent (who knows their child best) thinks there is a valid medical reason their child should postpone/not have a vaccination then they should be supported in that decision.

Both my dc have had the MMR - one has sn, one doesnt...not sure what that "proves" if anything.

It is a point that needs making that all vaccines have the potential to cause damage...not just the MMR.

I think Dr Wakefields research was flawed and I question his ethics (as did the GMC) and I am deeply saddened that dubious HCPs have had ££££ from worried parents for the single vaccine which in some cases has been shown to be a placebo/salt water.

Worried parents + corrupt HCPs = children suffering

My personal opinion (and that is all it is) is that asd/autism is genetic (I know that my dh has asd traits) in origin.

I can see how vaccinations could make children with a genetic predisposition to asd/autism worse/regress. Totally get that.

But I am not convinced the MMR vaccine (which is one of many vaccinations on the current vaccine schedule) causes asd/autism.

has anyone ever claimed it does cause it becaroooo?

silver...apart from the right wing media you mean???

God, the DM went loopy didnt it???