I can't do this any more. My child is awful.

[GrownUp2012]

Just woken up to my DD (3.5) laughing and playing, so got up to put her back to bed (she wakes frequently) and found her with one of the rabbits on her bed. She was playing with him, which roughly translates as hitting him for a reaction. He was very distressed so I removed him and she followed me shouting at me, climbed over behind the sofa and was screaming that she wouldn't go to bed. I've settled the rabbit, and will have him at the vets first thing, but it took me twenty minutes and my DP getting up and taking over to get her into bed. She had a massive meltdown and was screaming, kicking and telling me she hated me. I admit I wasn't calm, but I have reached my limit.

She has never slept properly and takes the opportunity to get up and do things she shouldn't. I am currently in talks with her school because she is hurting children at school, mostly biting them, but also pinching and hitting. I've been trying to convince the HV that there is something that she needs support and help with since she was about one years old. Her teacher has finally seen it, and has noted the worsening in behaviour with lack of sleep, and asked if she has been referred. HV has once again postponed me with a group to attend and an appointment in late March to see if it has helped. Short of seeing a doctor and telling them I don't know what to do anymore I'm stuck.

I've been advised locking her in her room is illegal, I did do this for a while and her sleep improved, but on being informed I have stopped. We have door handles on upside down and out of her reach but she must have climbed up this evening on something. I am going to have to fit a lock to downstairs today.

I'm ill at the moment, on a medication changeover and in crisis with my mental health due to what I think is a bad reaction to medication, but this has been relatively well hidden from her.

I just don't know what to do any more, can I call social services for myself? Will they support me? How do I help a child with behavioural problems when I can't get people to listen?

I think I am going to have a breakdown of some sorts because I cannot handle dealing with this any more.

I agree with what others have said. 3.5 is too young to be having unsupervised access to small animals like rabbits. DD is 4 and not aggressive or anything but I wouldn't let her play with small animals alone in case she hurt them by accident/dropped them or was rough with them without realising the impact.
As for her room I would remove anything she can climb on.
If the school can't manage her behaviour when she is there that would be indicative of a problem for me. If you think the hv isn't helping then I would visit your gp and tell them what you have said here and what the school have said.

I spoke to a member of the Wellbeing Team in the school today, about my situation and DD's behaviour, and told her I was struggling and would welcome any support possible. She has the numbers for CMHT, the lady who was offering me a step three intervention (also at a place called the Wellbeing Team, although not related) but thinks I may need to go back to psychiatric intervention, DDs HV and is contacting all of them, along with Homestart to try to manage this period where I am in crisis and my DD is being assessed to find out if she has additional needs. She has arranged a CAF meeting in a couple of weeks, and I am seeing her again on Monday. She mentioned a lady who deals with the SN department in the school, so I think I might be moving forwards with getting some sort of assessment.

DD remains very difficult, more so than usual, so I think she is picking up on my fragile mental state and as such asked if they could allow both my children the opportunity to chat to someone if they were feeling worried.

I'm a bit scared about posting on here... I worry all the time that it's me over reacting to normal behaviour, but I have this gut feeling that she's going to need some support over the years, and that if I don't try that she might end up like me, with enduring mental health problems and an inability to function in normal adult arenas.

Your trying to do the best for your children. No-one can do anymore than that - and pleasae don't blame you MN difficulties on her behaviour. Yes she may pick up on your fragile state but your more fragile because of her behaviour and sleep problems. It's a 2 way thing/ circle.

Wishing you a better weekend.

You have been given some great advice. All I wanted to add is that it is not illegal to lock her in her room if there is a good reason and only at night. I have checked with my local community officer. He told me that as long as it is not part of an overall child neglect situation then it is fine, especially if it is for safety reasons.

ach grownup i forgot to PM you the other day i got distracted and it just went out my mind ,

It seems you are doing all the right things for your children and seeing all the right people ,
I hope you get it sorted do put your rabbit away where she cant get to it though ,
as for pain and feeling ill try and set up a routine for her when you are not well just simple things so you can cope , sort out toys to play in the livingroom reading a story with you while you lie down , if she has additional needs then its better you get it sorted , I wish you well please accept all the help you can , I also recommend homestart as they are non judgemental and can help alot , Im biased though because i volunteer with them , Keep posting here we are here to listen to you ,

You poor lady what a nightmare, I feel for you.

Firstly wouldn't worry too much about the touchy dwelt stuff you have been told about locking her room. My mother is a consultant child social worker and she would be the first to say any gantry ing child goes behind a door and door held or locked shut till he or she calms it. Really irritates me all this ridiculous rubbish nowadays on parenting.

That aside I wonder if a system of visual reward would work for her. The old jar and buttons trick. When she is being calm you sit with her on your own and explain for every good thing she does on a pre planned list of achievable things you deem as good, she will get a button. If she gets so many buttons she will get a nice little something. I would do it for her brother too if he is old enough because otherwise you might end up making him feel left out and her feeling different and odd. Sometimes a negative cycle can happen and gets hard for every one to get out off. Don't forget she needs to know if she does something wrong she will loose a button.

That is one thought, the other is does she need to wear off more energy? This doesn't mean you have to go out if unwell, just think of active game played in a room such as Simple Simon says, Wii fit if you have Wii and get her to join you. Exercise for both might release endorphins which will maybe help you and equally exhaust your daughter. perhaps a reward with buttons could be trip to a park.

It is difficult and to be doing it when unwell yourself is a double blow. You have done nothing wrong, you sound like you are doing what any other mum would do, god my little boy was full on moan bag the other day, I sat and moaned very loudly back which made him cry but blooming heck I was trying to order our groceries online, trying to sort bills out, phone was going, he had had a whole morning of being read too, singing songs etc!

Always get on a GP case if you are worried about yourself or your daughter, you can talk to your GP about your daughter without her being there, she isn't at an age to consent so basically you make the decisions and talk to the GP for many a year to come.

Keep going, this is a phase, it will pass, you are the boss, you say what goes, good luck x

Mumsnet blogger- DisABLEd Parents

Ps sorry using blooming iPhone so some words have been randomly chosen by stupid phone haha ooops

Keeping a diary of behaviours is a great idea. I would strongly recommend talking to your GP and requesting a referral to a Paediatrician initially - they have more expertise for your daughters age group than many CAMHS services (I'm a CAMHS worker ) and the Paediatrician will be able to organise assessments for ASD or ADHD if warranted, and can also refer on to CAMHS a little way down the line if it's needed (hopefully it won't be).

I just also wanted to say that you sound like a great parent, albeit one with a lot on their plate. You are doing all the right things. I wish you and your daughter well.

There was a specific HV who had expertise in home saftey in my area who came out and helped my son-proof my home.We have a spiral staircase so in my case I just couldn't find stuff to fit my odd architecture, it wasn't particularly sen related. Every area has someone with this expertise, it's just finding which team they are attached to.

Ask at your local children's centre/council run nursery and at your GP's - the home saftey bod may be attached to social services, or what's left over from sure start. The ady who came out to me had an encyclopedia in her head of equipment and suppliers and it made such a huge difference as she knew the "rules" so I couldn't get into trouble with any authorities re making his sleepwalkin safe.

You do sound like a good Mum, with a child who has needs that are not being supported by the medics. Hang in there as a peadiatrician will help guide you onto the right path - you just need that initial appointment asap.

I've had another one of those days again today, where it just all feels too much to cope with.

School have been really good, they have paid the onsite before and after school club to pick my two up for school, eat breakfast and get dropped at class. However DD seems to have escalated with her behaviour when I do have her. Mornings I have been dealing with, she just doesn't want to get in the shower and messes around a lot. It's only an hour for me now before she's off to school, so I just grit my teeth, put on my happy voice and try to encourage her as much as I can.

The bloody afternoon school run is driving me up the wall. She's started wetting herself again since seeing a friend do it on Sunday, so I'm already worrying about how to deal with that, and then she's running off, hiding and refusing to put on her outside stuff. The past two days the teachers have had to encourage her and physically help me to get her dressed and out the door.

Then today it took me so long to get her from her classroom to her brothers classroom (literally around the corner) because she was running off, refusing to hold my hand, hanging limp when I was trying to lift her to walk and lying on the floor. She was also kicking at me and threw a toy at me too. By the time I got to my son's classroom, which I did by giving up on DD halfway into the distance it normally takes less than a minute to walk and just leaving her on the floor, he wasn't there, and his teacher didn't know where he was.

I freaked out at this I am ashamed to say and burst into sobbing tears. They ferried me off to the staff room while they found DD, who had ran off, and DS who had accidentally gone, I was given a little time to calm down and then had to try again to walk them the ten minutes home. DD went into the same routine all the way home, topping it off by deliberately running onto the grass after I asked her to stay on the path, and trying the same at the road crossing.

Since she's gotten home she has hurt her brother numerous times, kicking and hair pulling, screamed at me every time I have asked her to do something no matter how calmly or firmly, and generally just been awful. She will of course be up any time between 11pm and 3am, perhaps for a few hours, perhaps starting the day early again, and I foresee difficulty at bedtime from her current mood.

I have my CAF meeting tomorrow, and I just feel like I am going to cry and cry through the whole thing.

She has no diagnosis. How do I cope through this all?

Sounds exactly like my son was at about that age. He has just had an autism diagnosis. He used to climb bookshelves, run off, be totally unmanageable - I knew he was different from very early on.. It's been a long road even to get to this point but if it's any consolation he is definately improving - he will be 5 next week.

She's been awake since before 3am this morning playing. Upstairs is like a bomb hit it and she's not even flagging yet.

I'm exhausted today, but got the CAF this morning and then a hospital appointment for myself this afternoon. Sigh.

Is there snow round your way? More highly strung kids (broad range including asd ADHD as well as gifted ones) often freak when things change like that. Boots, hats, scrape the car might be enough to tip her over even if she likes th white stuff.

New to this but thought I'd chip in...confess to not having read the entire thread but here's a little tip:
It might not be acceptable to some but have you tried antihistamine? It doesn't work for all children and you need to make sure it's not the non-drowsy formula but maxing out on it can help them fall asleep, for a while at least. Check for contra-indications with anything else DC is having, just in case.
Just a thought.
Good luck

Thank you very much for your input. DD has been on antihistamines since she was two for her rhinitis. If anything medicine perks her up and makes her more active, even the drowsy stuff.

I started a parenting course yesterday, so far we are only recognising the types of difficult behaviour by how we feel and act in response to them. It's a couple of weeks before we move on to how to actually do anything about them, but I feel hopeful. They described my DD incredibly well, so I am hoping that if the descriptions are so accurate that the methods of dealing with it are also accurate... and successful. I cried in that lesson, but it was to do with being so hopeful that maybe I can help her to adjust and grow without all this terrible difficulty we seem to have together.