I can't do this any more. My child is awful.

[GrownUp2012]

Just woken up to my DD (3.5) laughing and playing, so got up to put her back to bed (she wakes frequently) and found her with one of the rabbits on her bed. She was playing with him, which roughly translates as hitting him for a reaction. He was very distressed so I removed him and she followed me shouting at me, climbed over behind the sofa and was screaming that she wouldn't go to bed. I've settled the rabbit, and will have him at the vets first thing, but it took me twenty minutes and my DP getting up and taking over to get her into bed. She had a massive meltdown and was screaming, kicking and telling me she hated me. I admit I wasn't calm, but I have reached my limit.

She has never slept properly and takes the opportunity to get up and do things she shouldn't. I am currently in talks with her school because she is hurting children at school, mostly biting them, but also pinching and hitting. I've been trying to convince the HV that there is something that she needs support and help with since she was about one years old. Her teacher has finally seen it, and has noted the worsening in behaviour with lack of sleep, and asked if she has been referred. HV has once again postponed me with a group to attend and an appointment in late March to see if it has helped. Short of seeing a doctor and telling them I don't know what to do anymore I'm stuck.

I've been advised locking her in her room is illegal, I did do this for a while and her sleep improved, but on being informed I have stopped. We have door handles on upside down and out of her reach but she must have climbed up this evening on something. I am going to have to fit a lock to downstairs today.

I'm ill at the moment, on a medication changeover and in crisis with my mental health due to what I think is a bad reaction to medication, but this has been relatively well hidden from her.

I just don't know what to do any more, can I call social services for myself? Will they support me? How do I help a child with behavioural problems when I can't get people to listen?

I think I am going to have a breakdown of some sorts because I cannot handle dealing with this any more.

Oh yes, and she wants to be a ballerina. She has been asking to go to lessons since she was two. I'll be enrolling her when she is four. She practices some moves she has picked up on Angelina Ballerina in the meantime.

I really dont think you should ignore the pain she may be in from what you described as chronic rhinitus, I have suffered and it is awfull.

Alot of the things you have described also sound like my son - we have discovered he is Hypermobile and often in pain which is why he fidgets, cant sleep and tries to distract himself from his discomfort. He can be very irritable and wasn't aware he was in pain as he had always been that way, does that make sense?

I'm just trying to point at that lots of children have autistic traits but that does not always mean autism adn everything should be explored.

Of course. I will raise the issue with the GP when I see him next week.

Can I second the asthma medication causing problems? My friend's little boy, who is very on the go and always has been, started suffering from a chronic cough. Their doctor put him on asthma inhalers and he went from being high-energy to being rude, disobediant and angry as well as being high energy. Her mum is a nurse and after finding out what medication he had been put on, pointed out that behavioral changes had been linked with it. So she stoppedthe medication, they found the cause of the cough, mould in the heating ducts in their apartment. That was sorted and my friend went out and bought a hepa filtered air purifier for his bedroom. He is now back to his normal (really lovely, if high energy) self with no cough.
Good luck, I hope you get some answers soon.

I have a son with ADHD and there do seem to be some parallels with what you are reporting.

We've seen some really good people including the psychiatrist's psychiatrist (PM me if you want the name) but handling it basically came down to:

1-2-3 Magic
Eye Q chews fish oil capsules - 6 a day (other fish oils formulations are less effective in our experience)
Completely rigid routine for meals, bedtimes and so on. No variation at all in the early stages.
Plenty of exercise, especially things like swimming.

Also as others are saying, it is not illegal to lock a child in the room when it's for the safety of herself and others (including tortured rabbits). Just leave the key in the outside of the door and have a spare to hand in your bedroom as well.

There is also something psychiatrists talk about called 'Difficult Temperament' which sounds like 'stroppy kid' but is more clinical. This is the kind of advice you tend to get about that.

here

With your history i think you all could do with some professional support via your gp makig a referal to camhs.
Did you bond ok with her at birth because she may have an attachment disorder.
I do family support and almost always get good results from consistant and clear boundaries,both parents doing the same thing and a clear rewards system. I know they are hard to stick to but it will take time to see results,i have had to use them with my own dd so dont feel bad.Mine reacted very badly to my divorce resulting in sleep problems and bad behaviour at school,i was really worried for a while but she is 10 now and really good. Still needs firm boundaries though.

And definately get her into ballet,it will improve her confidence and help her with self discipline.DD is now at a fairly high level and loves it.

I think it's worth going to the GP as well. I certainly ended up at the GP in tears and that's when all the proper help kicked in.

In the meantime, reading the 1-2-3 Magic Book and applying it, or the Triple P parenting book, and creating a timetable for the day and sticking to it will start to get things under control, regardless of what the health/psychiatric problems might be. These are tried and tested techniques used with all manner of children and the first to try.

We bonded really well to be honest, I had an amazing quick birth which was a delight after my first labour which was four days of interventions, followed by a quick readmission to hospital after one day home without my baby seriously ill with a bowel obstruction, womb infection and anaemia.

I had nothing except entenox so was skin to skin and breastfeeding immediately, had a bit of pain as I've got arthritis and my hip and pelvis really didn't like pregnancy, so stayed in for four days following until I'd satisfied the doctors with my health. Like I said, I breast fed and co-slept for the first six months, then shared a room for another few months, weaned when they said to at almost six months, wore her in a sling quite a lot as she's been a grizzly unsettled baby since before she was even born, even my mum commented about how much she moved and she was in the night nursery every night because she cried so much she was disturbing the other mums (I kept falling asleep with her on the breast and she was happy enough, but they won't let you co-sleep in hospital). She's always had plenty of one to one mum time, more so than many other second children because my DS was spending weekends with his dad, plus started school when she was six months old.

The only thing I can think of is that I haven't got the best health, with RA and recurrent UTI/kidney stones and thrush, continued high risk of fecal impaction due to history and opiate painkillers, plus a complex mental health problem that is anxiety based. Perhaps she worries. I don't know. I don't feel like I am best to sort it out if she needs to talk, someone else may be more suitable.

I shall try those books if they are available on the kindle, I'll be able to download them and get started straight away.

That link to difficult temperament describes me at this sort of age and my daughter to a tee, we're pretty similar when I look at these things.

Just got back and caught up on everything else you've been describing about your dd. She does sound exactly like my ds. Can I give you this website

www.pdacontact.org.uk

to read and see if any of it rings any bells. If not then fair enough you can discount it.

You have had some great advice and not sure that I can add to it.

The only thing I did want to say is that we have the stair gate linked earlier and if your dd is a climber it may not be that useful - although it is fabric, it locks taught iyswim which gives it enough stability to climb over.

My children are too old to use it now, but we have kept it because their cousins often come to stay - they all managed to climb over it this weekend with no trouble at all and the youngest is 3.5 years.

Really hope that your GP and then CAMHS are able to help.

Great advice on this thread ladies.

I have experience of autism and agree she does show many ASD traits.

My DS has allergies and allergic rhinitis and he was always an active baby/toddler, and one of his symptoms of allergic reaction is sudden behaviour changes. He also shows (ed) many ASD traits. I often wonder if there's a link.

I do agree you need a referral, it's too much for anyone to expect you to have to deal with this alone because you get support in the community for your MH problems. They are seperate and any mum dealing with what you are dealing with would need support.

Having said that my friends DD is very similar to yours. She is 6yo now and improving. Mostly - and my friend admits it - it got to a point where her DD got away with solme behaviours becuase my friend became too scared to say no because of the ensueing tantrum.

It sounds similar.

I found this:

Symptoms

The key behavioural symptoms of ODD are negative, hostile and defiant behaviour. For ODD to be diagnosed, symptoms have to have been present for at least six months and involve four or more of the following:

often loses temper (yes, very frequently frustrated and annoyed)

often argues with adults  (often for the sake of it)

often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults? requests or rules (will do something directly in front of you that you have asked her not to, does the creeping thing, if you have told her do not go on the road, she'll sort of wander in that general direction watching you, then try one foot and see what reaction she gets, then if you challenge her either loses temper or argues or runs off, if you try to make her walk somewhere and she decides not to, she'll just do floppy legs and lie down, this is at least five times a day roughly twice per school run and one for luck)

often deliberately annoys people (if she has someone round to play or has a special friend at school, she often bites them, takes their toys or torments them without any seeming remorse)

often blames others for his mistakes or misbehaviour (she is getting good at lying about this)

often touchy or easily annoyed by others (yes yes yes, she will scream and hit out at them)

often angry and resentful (she has a moody look I recognise which means she's going to do something to get back at you, usually break something)

often spiteful or vindictive (often on being told off mildly will take it out on someone else to get rid of her frustrations).

To be classified as ODD, the behaviour also has to have caused a significant degree of disturbance to home, social or school life.
How does it cause problems?

For parents, having a child with ODD can be very difficult. ODD children can vary from being mildly oppositional to always being hostile.

A child with ODD will:

deliberately take the most difficult path, eg to say ?no? on principle (yes, I have perfected the nonchalant way of suggesting we do things which is neither too authoritative nor too set in stone, you sort of make it seem to be a natural progression of what she wants to do so that you don't hit stand off again, simply to get through the day)

enjoy challenging and arguing with people (she does seem to get this glow in her eye when being difficult, I often say she enjoys attention whether it be positive or negative, and sometimes it seems like she revels more in negative attention).

refuse to do what he?s told. (outrightly defiant)

It's common for a child with ODD to blame everyone else for his problems, and at his worst he can be angry, spiteful and vindictive.

These types of problem behaviours are typically directed towards parents and teachers, plus others in authority. Coping with a consistently disruptive attitude can be extremely frustrating and physically, mentally and emotionally exhausting. (this is me)

grownup i have a disability and when dd1 was little I was quite ill with my kidneys ended up having it removed , anyway Its quite hard to be consistant with discipline and routine when you are not feeling well , Do you find things difficult with her when you are not well , I hope im not sounding patronising

Yes, I find having energy to keep up with her is sometimes very difficult. When I had the last infection I had a long lasting episode of extreme fatigue and I had to lie down and doze a lot on the sofa with her secure in the room with me, a lot of her worst behaviour was saved for as I fell asleep to regain my attention. I ended up sleeping in her bed quite often, while she played with her toys in her room. It's the best thing about having her in nursery, when I feel ill I can nap in the day and totally relax, I can't even do that at night still. Tonight I am having a flare up of kidney pain with some joint pain too (missed a dose of diclofenac) and I could seriously just sleep forever, only another 25 minutes to bedtime.

Can I ask what was up with your kidney? Removal was casually suggested at one point and I was horrified, the doctor said if it had reduced function below a certain point or if it gave me significant pain for prolonged period.

Write down a list of all of your DD's concerning behaviours and go to your GP with them. Ask for a referral to a paediatrician for assessment. I did this for my DS at 3 and a half and it took THREE YEARS to get his diagnosis in writing. We got it verbally almost straight away which helped in terms of knowing how best to work with him, but a lot of avenues of support and services could not be unlocked without the written diagnosis.

Also ask school for an assessment - there are template letters for this on the IPSEA website. As nursery are already concerned regarding her behaviour they should hopefully support your request.

I had those wireless door alarms on our 2 external doors when DS was this age, DS only tried it once once I had put them on!

Tempted by the fabric safety gate myself as DS still likes to wander about in the night at 7! I was at the end of my tether with his sleep not so long ago on here and someone suggested locking his bedroom door, not sure on the legalities of it. Worth finding out for certain either way I think. DOn't feel bad that you tried this, I considered it too as I thought well DS is more of a danger to himself wandering the house alone than he is locked in his room but in his case being locked in would cause more upset and meltdowns that it would be worth!

grownup I wil Pm if thats ok

sorry if this has been said further down, i've skim-read the thread but may have missed it

please, please, please put the door handles on the correct way and do not lock her in her room

2 children died in a house fire after not being able to escape from their room a while back.

it really isn't worth the risk.

agree with the others about posting in the SN children section on here, we're a lovely lot over there.
you've already had a lot of good advice on here so I can only agree with everyone who has said to write a long list of ALL the behaviours you think are unusual/different (including behaviour that isn't bad, just odd) and ask for a referral to the community paediatricians.

i have one of those retractable stairgates too. we stopped using it and i can't remember why, so it might be broken, but if it isn't you're welcome to have it for the cost of postage

where in the country are you OP?

This is a list for Difficult Temperament, I crossed out if it didn't apply. It's quite close. Very useful to see all written down as it makes describing her behaviour much easier. I must also say that the PDF link had two paragraphs that described my personality to a tee, so I think it's possible that we're very alike, which may also cause us to have problems.

High Activity Level: Restless, squirmy, fidgety; always into things, "hyper," makes you tired; "ran before he walked"; easily overstimulated; trouble sitting still or playing quietly; "motormouth"; hates to be confined; easily gets wild or "revved up."

Impulsivity: Acts without thinking; quick hot temper, easily frustrated; impatient, excitable; interrupts, calls out, doesn't await turn; grabs or pushes; can lose control and become aggressive; can suddenly take off.

Distractibility: Has problems focusing and paying attention, especially if not really interested; trouble following instructions; doesn't "listen," tunes you out, daydreams; disorganized, forgetful.

High Intensity: Loud voice; forceful, overwhelming; strong emotions whether miserable, angry, or happy.

Irregularity: Unpredictable body rhythms; can't tell when he'll be hungry or tired, resulting in conflicts over meals and bedtime; wakes up at night; erratic toilet habits.

Negative Persistence: Very strong-willed, stubborn; goes on and on nagging, whining, or negotiating if wants something; relentless, won't give up, wears you down; gets "locked in"; may have long tantrums.

Low Sensory Threshold: Physically, not emotionally sensitive; highly aware of color, light, appearance, texture, sound, smell, taste, or temperature (not necessarily all of these); "creative," but with strong and sometimes unusual preferences that can be embarrassing; bothered by bright lights and loud noises; particular, picky; clothes have to feel or look right; doesn't like the way many foods look, smell, or taste; feels too cold (or too hot) when no one else does.

Initial Withdrawal: Shy and reserved with new adults and/or children; doesn't like new situations and unfamiliar settings; holds back or protests by crying, clinging, or tantruming if forced to go forward.

Poor Adaptability: Has trouble with transition and change of activity or routine; inflexible, notices minor details; gets used to things and won't give them up; can want the same clothes or foods over and over; "creature of habit"; even after initial response takes a long time to adapt.

Negative Mood: Serious or cranky, doesn't show pleasure openly; not a "sunny" disposition.

I've PMed you.

My DD is exactly like yours,she is the same age,and has very similar problems.
We are just starting the assessment process...

cross out 'poor adaptability' and leave in the picky about clothes,

And you could be describing my DD.

I am thinking that if you had some childcare support to share care with you, this might be better for your health as well as allowing you to made progress with one of the tried and tested parenting regimes that is usually recommended as the first line of action. Can you afford a part time nanny, for example?