EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

@thatsnotmygarden

Watkins were v helpful today. Thank you (x1000000)

@Needlenardlenoo

Just seen your post - thank you so much too!!

@thatsnotmygarden

You are gold.

The solicitor has been so quick. Reviewed my draft and transfer plan.

She’s picked up on:

• The EP report is out of date and should have been updated for the meeting (was from 2023)
• The occupational therapy referral has not been stated in the draft EHCP
• the LA refused to include private speech therapy report and this is unlawful.

She’ll do a letter to 1) push for meeting 2) that the assessments are carried out.

Out of interest, who should have noticed the EP report was out of date?

@BangerMasher updated advice and information should be circulated before the AR. Ultimately, the LA is responsible for the AR process overall, but for DC in schools, the school’s headteacher would usually undertake this step as per Reg 20. Although it is often the SENCO who actually does it.

Professional time, including time allocated for updated advice and information prior to the AR and prep for and attending the AR itself, is one thing that is often overlooked in F. You can look to pursue this via a review or if you appeal. This applies to all professionals, not just the EP.

The LA must consider all evidence, see Reg 7. SENDIST certainly will. Sadly, many LAs have unlawful blanket policies of telling parents they don’t accept independent evidence.

Did DS not have an OT assessment as part of the EHCNA?

@thatsnotmygarden

Case Worker v quickly replied and is FUMING that I’ve asked about Ed Psych report. Last EP report is from 2023.

“I am not sure who you spoke with, but an EP report is NOT commissioned for children when they go through Key Stage. This is only the case when needs have change considerably, for example if there is a new diagnosis.”

@BangerMasher a full comprehensive EP assessment/report, such as that done for an EHCNA or a medico-legal standard assessment/report as sought by parents during appeals, is not done as standard (although can be sought as part of the AR process - but KAs don’t always agree to it) during the AR process, but advice and information prior to the AR needs to be circulated and that can include advice and information from an EP.

This is why having professional time allocated in F is important.

To give you examples of what my DSs have. Prior to AR, DS1 has time allocated for updated advice and information from EP, SALT, OT, SIOT, CP, physio, specialist teacher, ToD, QTVI, tutors, PT, rebound therapy, swimming and his main HLTA. They all also have time for AR prep and attending the meeting. And the specialist teacher who co-ordinates his package has extra time afterwards, too.

DS3 has similar. Prior to AR he has time allocated for updated advice and information from his AP, EP, SALT, OT, SIOT, CP, physio, specialist teacher, ToD, tutors, music teacher, cookery teacher, main LSA, mentor. There is also time for AR prep and attending the meeting. And the specialist teacher who co-ordinates his package has extra time afterwards.

They both have EOTAS/EOTIS, so slightly different to your DS. DS2 is in a secondary MS and has less complex needs than DS1&3. We have an upcoming contents appeal for him. Part of that covers professional time. Our proposed amendments in the WD include time for updated advice and information before the AR from EP, SALT, OT/SIOT, SENCO, specialist teacher, and physio. Not forgetting time for the AR itself.

EP assessments are not carried out ahead of each and every Annual Review. That would be impossible given the number of EHCPs in existence.

@Thegladstonebag

No, but I think they are valid for only 2 years and DS has had a diagnosis since last report.

@thatsnotmygarden thank you - you are amazing.

@BangerMasher for SENDIST, as per the new PD issued earlier this year, reports should be no older than 3 years unless there are compelling exceptional circumstances. Although reports younger than that may be out of date if needs and provision required etc. change.

Full comprehensive reports aren’t routinely done before ARs, but updated advice and information absolutely can be, but this is why provision in F is so important.

So much like @Luckycloverz , LA has not sent bundle by tribunal deadline. How long do I leave it before email SENDIST to say I haven't received it? I would like it think that perhaps once they started pulling together the bundle they realised how ridiculous it all was and have decided to give up, but I suspect that ever changing staff means they are just a bit behind in their paperwork.....

Hi all, I've offered to help a friend with a refusal to issue appeal. Can these be done on the papers if the evidence seems strong enough? Or would it be better to have an actual hearing? Thanks.

I can only speak from my own experience but on the papers worked for me - I felt my evidence spoke for itself and that having an online meeting would add nothing or possibly even detract. It was also significantly quicker.

@handmademitlove if you haven’t received the bundle by the deadline, email SENDIST copying in the LA.

@SpaceInvader321 I prefer oral hearings for RtI. Oral hearings give an extra element that a paper exercise doesn’t - if they didn’t, oral hearings wouldn’t be used. They can be done on the papers, though. I would not take the risk unless it was a 100% watertight case.

@SpaceInvader321i changed to a paper hearing and got a new date for 2 weeks later.
we won.
my evidence was really strong and spoke for itself.

What is the extra element though - that they can ask you questions? I don't do a lot of Teams meetings any more (like many people, I did a lot in 2020-1 but you get rusty). I did one today & couldn't see or hear the person on the other end well (poor lighting, dodgy camera- I've got normal sight and hearing) so I had more faith in my ability to put a case on paper.

That you can present your case wider than written evidence allows no matter how well that written case is presented and expand in response to the LA presenting their case on the day. That DC can attend for part of the hearing if they are able/want to - this can be incredibly powerful even when their views have been presented as part of the bundle. That you can cross-examine the LA’s witnesses - you would be surprised how often holes appear which are not apparent from their written statements. That you can have witnesses attend should that be something you want to consider. That the panel can ask questions to both parties and build a wider context that written evidence, no matter how good, alone doesn’t provide. There is a reason it is only RtA appeals that are routinely listed to be heard on the papers. There is also a reason the most SEN experts caution against cases being heard on the papers for anything other than RtA. It isn’t like a criminal court case, but think about how different those types of cases would be if only heard on the paperwork. There are parallels.

Anyone who can't hear or see during a hearing should raise that.

Thanks for explaining.

I definitely wouldn't have been willing to do that.

I was up for doing paperwork.

Just to point out because maybe my post was misleading, there is still the paperwork, e.g. evidence, position statement, etc. An oral hearing isn’t instead of that.

Had an email from tribunal ordering the LA to explain themselves re the missing bundle or be barred. I know that this is unlikely to actually happen, now just waiting to see if the LA produce the bundle! Anyone else had this?

Yes, they sent it with a grovelling cover note! It was such a different tone to their emails to me!!

It is quite common, @handmademitlove.

@thatsnotmygarden
Please can you send me the link for the PfA pro forma? I can’t seem to print or do anything with the one on the other thread. School aren’t doing things properly at all re the AR but I’m not sure how much I can push them into doing it properly. My appeal of the yr10 plan has been lodged but will likely need to appeal yr11 plan as well post AR. I’m just not sure how much the current plan can be improved without starting all over with fresh reports and I’m reluctant to attempt that even if I could. As parents we’re at the mercy of professionals doing good enough reports, even privately, and some now even limit the amendments they’re prepared to do. I read up loads about things but there’s nothing like lived experience and it almost feels too late now to try and right the ship! Thanks

@Fififizz don’t panic. It isn’t too late. If by start again you mean requesting a reassessment of needs, personally, I wouldn’t do that, anyway. If by start again you mean getting updated evidence for the appeal, then I’m afraid you really do need some new evidence. If you need independent reports but can’t afford them and you aren’t eligible for legal aid, there are charities, e.g. Parents in Need, who can help.

The first is this link. The second document is no longer available on the internet. I have it as a document but MN doesn’t let you upload it which is why I put screenshots on the other thread. If you want the document itself PM me your email address and I will email it you (I have an email address just for MN).

The LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring the AR is carried out correctly. If the school isn’t doing what they should, take it up with the LA.

@thatsnotmygarden

Thank you. No, I don’t mean a reassessment of needs. I took on board your previous point. What I mean is attempt to make good what we have. It’s very vague and stuff has been stripped out rather than looking at implementing the provision in a different way.

Unfortunately school aren’t necessarily on board with going the extra mile, despite the funds they receive and DS isn’t amenable to things so it’s easy to avoid implementing and school are a closed shop in terms of finding out what’s going on and getting any evidence, even of DS actual attainment is nigh on impossible. He’s doing mocks soon and that will be the first indicator. It’s bonkers what goes on.

Plus an expensive original independent EP report from an EP who’s so busy we managed to get a desperate and last minute cancellation (after being let down by another) and nearly didn’t have the evidence for tribunal and this EP actually charges for amendments. It’s mind boggling what goes on. I could get an addendum from him possibly but feel a bit scarred by the first experience but a whole new EP report is a big push.

Anyway, that ship has sailed the EHCP is what it is, not worth the paper….. and I need to focus on what can be done going forwards.

I’ll e mail you.

I appreciate your help.