EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

In my experience, the EP advice is key, followed by the other professional reports.

Annual reviews. Up to now our school haven’t really followed the correct AR process. I challenged them at the last AR but it was still a farce!

DC didn’t engage with therapy in EHCP that school provides onsite so I agreed that could be removed, seems a pointless provision so no professionals are currently involved. The SENCO circulates papers that she hasn’t even bothered to fill out, the child views are taken in school via a very limited tick box pro forma and we are asked for our views. Rather than discussing progress etc at the AR and generating a report then amending the plan, the plan is gone through at the review and ‘tinkered’ with based on no real input or evidence. The LA rarely bother to attend and are happy to subcontract the process to school.

We’ve just had yr10 AR and I’m appealing the plan and are due yr11 AR where I know there’ll be no deviation from the norm procedure wise and so my question is how do I put stuff into the yr11 AR about PfA etc or do I just suck it up as it is and try and get professional evidence for the appeal?

We already appealed at the previous key transfer stage and spent a fortune on reports. Since then the AR has been a process of eroding/tinkering with the plan. I’ve let it slide previously but this is another key stage.

Anyone experienced the same and have any advice please?

I'm looking for some advice and hope you lovely people might be a good place to start. My DD is 8.5yrs she has official diagnosis of ASD and Selective mutism, we suspect she may have AuDHD but she found the ASD assessment incredibly stressful so we haven't faced trying to get an ADHD diagnosis.
She really struggles to form letters and numbers, her handwriting is often illegible, she still spells phonetically. Sadly the older she gets the more aware she is of how far behind her peers she is. She was completely mute at school during EYFS, yr 1 and 2 terms of yr2 so didn't engage much at all during that time. Primary school are supportive and she goes to a lot of small intervention groups to help with all of this.

My biggest concern at the moment is the transition to secondary school. I think she'll struggle with the amount of different adults and children that she will come into contact with. Sadly we live out in a Fen village so there are very few options for secondary schools. Is it worth considering an EHCP? If so how do you start this process.

@WafflingDreamer

Absolutely, you can make a parental request as relying on school isn’t always helpful. IPSEA and SOSSEN have advice on the process. Lots of support groups on FB too. @thatsnotmygarden is very knowledgeable too.

@WafflingDreamer request an EHCNA. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use.

@Fififizz if DS couldn’t engage in the therapy, the provision needs amending rather than just removing. For example, delivered in a different way, delivered away from the school environment, a different type of therapy/therapeutic provision, a different person…

The content of EHCPs is based on the evidence, so proposed amendments need to be based on your evidence. This is why it is paramount to ensure the advice and information is circulated before the AR meeting and is accurate. If it isn’t, you need to raise with the LA and school. The key to the AR is in the preparation. Sadly, for many, parents have to drive this. LAs don’t always attend the AR meeting, but they are still ultimately responsible for the AR as a whole. Although they will sometimes attend when there is an ongoing appeal even if they wouldn’t otherwise.

Updated advice and information is important. Time for this from professionals can be included in F. Professional time is an important aspect that is often overlooked. This is something you should consider as part of your appeal.

You can request updated advice via the AR process. Highly unlikely to be as detailed as tribunal standard independent reports from someone with SENDIST experience, though. And the LA may refuse.

Working through the EHCP is how some AR meetings are run. This can still result in the updated advice and information being discussed and progress (and lots of other things), and a report circulated afterwards.

As a minimum I would contact the LA and ask your SEND officer to attend the next review. Most don’t routinely attend all Annual Reviews as they do not have capacity,but are happy to do so when asked.

That depends on the LA. Even when asked to attend the AR meeting, some LAs rarely do so if they weren’t already intending to.

When the EHCP was drafted, a number of more detailed recommendations were not included - there was reference to them, but the specific details were left out. I asked the LA to include "as detailed in appx XX" in the main body of the draft as I understand that adding it all in will create a huge document, but they are saying that this is not necessary as the reports are already included as appendices and everyone should always read them as part of the document.

Do the appendices effectively become part of the provision? As otherwise the important things are not actually in the main document and we run the risk that they are not considered "statutory" as they are not specifically listed. Do I push for the whole thing to therefore be included in the main document? An example would be the APD management in a classroom guidance - the EHCP simply says that due regard should be given to these guidelines. Should it say X, Y and Z should be done?

All SEP reasonably required must be detailed, specified and quantified in F. Not just in a report included in K and not in any other non-statutory section or plan. “Due regard” is not enforceable. The wording needs to be tighter. You should propose amendments via the WD process,

@thatsnotmygarden. This is where we are. They have accepted all the other amendments, but commented that the reference to specific things in the reports is unnecessary. The next option is to cut and paste the relevent sections directly into the EHCP instead! Will see how they react to that. I also emailed with the WD to note that there are identified needs which have no provision, but they haven't responded to that. Or the OT report which is the main point of the tribunal. But they did ask if I was happy for them to draw up a consent order to avoid tribunal 🙄!

SEP needs to be detailed, specified and quantified in F but don’t C&P lots of large chunks from reports. SENDIST doesn’t like lots of C&P and you need to be mindful of the WD page limit. F can often be more direct and succinct, but still detailed, specified and quantified, than the wording used in many reports.

My son had one of the calmest play dates he has ever had with a very bright ex-classmate who was so kind to my son. This child was excluded at age 5 and was described as having ‘an overinflated sense of his own ego’. This resonated with descriptions I’ve had about my child having a ‘tiny, squeaky voice’. I’m sorry but WTAF is happening in our education system for it to become acceptable to use such terms to describe children and WHY are children being excluded before they’ve barely had a chance to start. I’m not sure such descriptions and actions can be excused purely because of under resourcing. It’s just basic empathy.

A lot of older staff have been managed out or taken early retirement due to the intense pace of primary these days. I'm not saying our very young staff aren't empathetic, but they've necessarily got less life experience and generally no kids of their own yet.

Those are awful remarks!

I'm glad they got on though. DD has some kind of radar that identifies other similar kids...

@Needlenardlenoo

I think some people have just ‘got it’. DC had a sports lesson with a 14 year old boy yesterday with no teaching experience. This young lad is kind, understanding, empathetic, completely did the whole lesson at my son’s pace. My son loved him.

These comments are coming from an older SLT at my son’s school plus a younger staff member who is being promoted and becoming more SLT.

Interestingly the 14 year old boy made a very disparaging comment about the head when he saw my son’s school jumper. He’d been to the same school.

Agree.

Anecdotally, some (not all) of the particularly young teachers at my DC's school seem to just expect children to fall in line because they say so and then shout when they don't. It just escalates behaviour.

Example, my DD's class is generally a reasonably well-behaved, want-to-do well group. However, they are quite talkative, boisterous; as with most classes, a sizeable proportion of ND. Last year's teacher (mid-20s, fairly inexperienced) - would just shout, send individuals to the HT, use empty threats. Most of the children didn't like/respect/were scared of her (and definitely contributed to DD's EBSA); it just made behaviour worse. And obviously ultimately harder work for the teacher.

Their previous teacher was very experienced, had two adopted children... Put in place things like standing desks, allowed lots of children therabands, wobble cushions (last year's teacher took them all away to start with before she could 'assess who needed them'!).

Luckily we're back to more experienced teachers this year - DD said during one particularly chatty lesson, the teacher sent them all outside to the playground to run three laps before continuing their work. Would absolutely not have happened last year. DD (who is autistic and likely ADHD) said she found the lesson "much more fun afterwards."

Life/teaching experience gives you more tools though, doesn't it? If you choose to use them. If you're allowed and encouraged to.

Some people are naturals. I've got a year 13 student who's amazing with the year 7s. They just open up to her.

@Needlenardlenoo

You would hope! DD also had lessons from a 16 year old, has continued those lessons as 16 year old has gone through uni. It’s a really special bond they have - she’s a truly excellent teacher.

I think part of it is an ability to relate - to think like a child. And to be positive, kind - have humour. And to not be scary or insist on too much ‘adulting’.

When DS is struggling with something I request, I find a puppet or toy, put on a funny voice - and DS will respond so much better if the puppet requests it - or ‘teaches’!
The puppet’s teaching abilities are better than my teaching abilities!!

If I appeal a phase transfer EHCP, I’m factoring in about a year for this to
complete.
DS’s annual review is likely to be held prior to the appeal being complete.

I know I have been told this 1000 times - but if my parental preference school refuses placement, and I have an incompetent case officer/LA - could the LA take forever either naming a mainstream (and perhaps not parental choice) school/ tussling with schools who reject placement. I do know they have final say and bar is high etc.

My friends boy has now been 5 months without placement although mainstream is named, and - although I don’t know the exact details - it seems to be the ‘tussle/incompetence/changes in case workers’ that is taking the time.

Will a school ONLY consider the phase transfer EHCP for placement. If a new annual review occurs before an appeal of a phase transfer EHCP - would they have to base their decision on the new annual review (even though it’s not the original phase transfer EHCP). Hope that makes sense!

The phase transfer EHCP must be finalised by the 15th Feb. If it isn’t, you can take steps to force the LA’s hand. Phase transfer appeals aren’t generally a year. Most will be heard in the summer term. Although some will be held in the autumn term because there isn’t enough court time to hear them all before the start of the academic year. If an AR is due while there is a live appeal, the outcome of the AR can feed into the WD process. You can share the proposed amendments needed as per the WD with schools.

It isn't really possible to comment on your friend's situation without knowing details. For example, to comment one would need to know if they have a specific mainstream named that the parents disagree with? Or is it just mainstream as type? If only MS as type is named, have they reminded the LA case law dictates where they name MS as type, they should normally name a specific placement. Is alternative provision in place? Have they appealed? Have they requested an expedited hearing on the basis the child is out of school?

@thatsnotmygarden

Thank you! Yes - they are trying to finalise my phase transfer EHCP in the next week!
So a school can’t possibly be named in Section I (other than type of school) as no consultations yet.

I also think DS won’t have an accurate and up to date EHCP used for consultation as the phase transfer review was held at 15 months (not within 12).
It not that I don’t think DS will get a mainstream placement, it’s whether it’s our parental preference - and if we have to fight our under resourced LA (with a new inexperienced case worker) if a different school ends up being named. I’m sure I’d ‘win’ - it’s how long that could take to happen and potentially no placement while waiting.

If I appeal when I get the final (next week they say) - is that a ‘safety net’ if I don’t get parental preference?

I’ll withdraw the appeal if I DO get parental preference, but I’ll have already put the ‘cogs in motion’ if LA name a school other than parental preference?

@thatsnotmygarden I just wanted to say thank you for your really helpful response!

My child's EP assessment went really well. The EP had access to all of our reports and information before the appointment and I was so impressed by the wisdom and understanding that she had gained about our child when we met. She had a really accurate picture of them. She explained what games and tasks they'd done during their 1:1 session, what she'd observed in the classroom, what she'd taken from the other professionals reports etc and talked about the main areas of need that she sees for him / what she thinks he ought to have in place. We were so fortunate, because she is a Senior EP, clearly very qualified. My friend knows her as she is a LA EP and sung her praises. We get her draft report at the end of this week to comment on. I was so grateful.

Keeping everything crossed for us to hear a decision by the 16 week deadline. Our EHCNA was notified prior to the 6 week deadline date, so hopefully the decision to award will be made on time too!! 🤞

Good to hear positive words about someone from an LA SEND team. I know there are less than competent people working in SEND roles (as there are in all jobs and professions) but sometimes it feels as though everyone in SEND is vilified and viewed as incompetent almost automatically.

@Ehcphelpbeep you are welcome. Glad it went well. A word of caution, being a senior LA EP doesn’t mean the report will automatically be good. Sometimes it means the opposite.

@BangerMasher what the LA should do is hold a phase transfer review this term. Then finalise by the 15th Feb at the latest. This will give you the right of appeal. It is unlikely they will name the phase transfer placement next week. They will probably either fail to adhere to the timescales (which isn’t acceptable) or issue with the current placement, then reissue by 15th Feb (which if they are going to do they should go through the process of the AN etc. again). In the unlikely event they finalise the phase transfer EHCP next week, if you disagree with section I, appeal. Don’t assume they will amend for phase transfer again. Don’t withdraw an appeal, the LA should concede - an important distinction.

Phase transfer appeals submitted early in the day will be heard prior to the start of the academic year. It is ones not submitted until later that run the risk of not being heard before September (or cases that are pushed back for whatever reason). That is because whilst phase transfer appeals are prioritised, there isn’t enough court time to hear all cases before September.

@thatsnotmygarden

Yes they combined the phase transfer and annual review at 15 months prior to transfer.

I only realised (with your help), that this was too early for phase transfer when my draft was sent in August.

I requested the transfer meeting part to be done again this term but the LA refused.

I’m sure they are planning to name current school only in Section I next week and treat it like an annual - yet they’ve treated it as both an annual and transfer.

Can’t find any template letter regarding phase transfers being held too early, rather than late - or whether they can ‘get away’ with doing that in Section I.
I keep being told by SENCO’s/LA that our authority always holds transfers in Year 1 and Year 5 to allow time to find the right placement for Year 3 and Year 7.
SENCO of my preferred Yr3 placement school even said Autumn Term Year 5 for her KS2 children. If she then starts tussling with the LA stating ‘cannot meet needs’ surely she must realise that she’s reading a plan that’s probably not an up to date or true reflection??

@BangerMasher if you want a phase transfer review this term, you can force the issue, including via JR if necessary. If you don’t want to force the LA’s hand that way, it is worth going through the formal complaints process then going to the LGO. You can tweak IPSEA’s letter or just write your own email.

Unfortunately, it isn’t uncommon for LAs to use the, in your case, Y1 AR as the phase transfer review. They shouldn’t, but they do. It doesn’t mean they will name the Y3 placement now. They mostly ignore the law by either ignoring the timescales or completing the AR as normal, then amending with the phase transfer placement at the phase transfer deadline without following the correct process with an AN etc.