EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

Thanks @thatsnotmygarden that makes sense.

Re transport for other DC at SS- PTB got declined today, 'shared transport is more cost effective'.. he currently has 1-1 at SS, he's not in the same classroom as peers, during tribunal process transport costs were taxi and PA. Obviously taxi and PA will cost a lot more than PTB. I've emailed this all over to them. I did not think transport would be an issue (after everything else). I've heard of people appealing transport decisions I think? We can't continue long term without a PTB but shared transport is just unsuitable.

@Wednesdayy123 you can appeal the refusal.

Regarding shared vs individual transport, transport has to be non-stressful. You can challenge the shared transport. Ultimately, that can be a matter for JR in some circumstances.

Thanks @thatsnotmygarden I will look into JR.

@thatsnotmygarden

Thank you again. Yes, I will relay that - hoping to help where I can on a play date next week.

Another friend in the same now Yr2 class hasn’t been given a date for her phase transfer review - despite the same caseworker telling me that the LA ALWAYS hold phase transfers in Summer Term Yr1, never Autumn Term…. I’ve told her to chase ASAP - despite the class teacher telling her yesterday ‘a transfer review will happen in July 26 for Sept 26’. She’s beyond confused…

Just submitted appeal again so hoping it gets registered. I’ve been through the appeal process once and our LA makes it horrific.

I’ve appealed the yr10 plan but we’ve just started yr11 so due a review soon for post 16. I appealed B and F as settled in current placement but assuming I can request I adding if LA play games over post 16 placements?

The caseworker stripped lots out of the plan on a whim of her own but the plan is a mess anyway. It doesn’t really look forward to post 16 and there are so many professional reports because the LA did such a rubbish assessment we did our own so provision is messy and not very specific. I’m not sure if I should be trying to get another EP report lined up or just try and use what we have in the current reports. Knowing what I know now an EP report is only helpful if it’s very clear and very specific. Not sure when the yr11 early AR is, sometime this term I understand.

@BangerMasher a phase transfer review in July 26 for a Sept 26 move is not is not right. It doesn’t leave enough time for the whole process. And what if an appeal is required.

@Fififizz any proposed changes to B&F following the AR can be incorporated in to the WD process.

If you aren’t happy with the post 16 placement, you will be able to appeal that. Sometimes it can be added just by making the request via a SEND7 and sometimes SENDIST asks you to submit a new appeal then consolidate.

Without knowing what the evidence you have is like, how long ago it is from and if it is still up to date, it isn’t possible to comment on if you need a new report. If you have an existing independent EP report that is good and still up to date but older, you could ask the EP to write an addendum. Some will.

Yes, the phase transfer review should be this term. For post 16, in theory, it could be at the very beginning of January and still meet the timescales.

Hi, not been on in a while. Hope returns to school where applicable have been okay.

We had a refusal to issue in July (after the LA conceded appeal for refusal to assess) for DD9 (ASD, sensory issues, EBSA and, I suspect, ADHD).

Unsurprising as the LA refused to seek advice from anyone that I requested (eg OT, SALT). The EP also went into school on a day in the summer term when DD was in school and going through a relatively good patch (things typically seem to improve for her in the final term).

So the EP assessment was a momentary snapshot of how DD was on that day (and DD is very in-the-moment, heart on sleeve, she was happy that day therefore all extreme meltdowns/sensory issues/struggle with work/days of spending hours trying to get her into school to no avail all forgotten) and also focused solely on the EBSA.

I wanted to forget the whole thing over the summer, and then was in two minds about whether to appeal or not... Things had improved somewhat towards the end of the year, she had better teachers this year, and, despite a week prior of increased anxiety, meltdowns, saying she wasn't going, hugely disrupted sleep, she made it in on time for the first three days and seemed okay about it...

But, I decided it was better to keep things 'open' as it were and obtained a mediation certificate for appeal.

And then the shit hit the fan. Probably one of the worst weeks we've had. With a lot of perseverance (and a visit from the FLO yesterday), she has actually gone in today, but the rest of the week, there was no chance (we couldn't even get her dressed).

So, drafting the appeal.. I found the refusal to assess appeal not too tricky, but I feel a bit lost with this one. I know I should probably read the IPSEA guidance.

Can I go with those two main reasons? That the LA failed to consult with the other HCPs I reasonably requested and the EP's assessment was only a small snapshot of DD's needs, therefore they did not fulfil their duty to complete a full and comprehensive assessment?

And then pay for private assessments?

(What is the name of the charity that can fund assessments for EHCP appeals?)

I've also started keeping a daily diary of how DD is.

So my deadline for papers for tribunal is next week. I have not made any amendments to the working document as the sticking point is a lack of detailed provision due to lack of assessment, so there is nothing for me to add! I also have nothing to add to the papers I submitted initially as I am still waiting for paperwork from the NHS OT. I have emailed the LA to ask what they want me to do regarding the working document and am hoping they will accept that OT is now needed, but not holding my breath!

Do I just go back to tribunal and say that she is now under NHS OT and we are awaiting information from them but without a comprehensive EHCNA assessment I have no evidence to add to the document? or do I request an extension and hope the OT comes up with something useful?

I am also trying to get my head around what I am expected to send in to the tribunal - do I resend everything, with a covering letter or just make a list of all the things the LA did not send in their response!?

@thatsnotmygarden

Thanks, I’m appealing to try place mark effectively as its such a long wait for a date I feared waiting until after the yr11 AR. No idea what the next stage will be as no idea what DC wants to do post 16. Strictly, as DC got AuDHD diagnosis since EHCP issued, we probably require a reassessment of needs but the first assessment with the LA was such a s!**t show I can’t bear to go there again. Plus we got an expensive specialist placement via Tribunal so I know what the LA agenda for any reassessment will likely be!

I’ll consider an addendum report and what else I can obtain for evidence. Really we need to focus on preparing for adulthood but when we had a social care assessment that was another s**t show. I got to stage 2 complaint over it and things still weren’t put right.

I suppose once it’s clearer what DC might want to do then the way forward might become apparent. Currently the plan has stuff in that supports school placement like class sizes but would potentially be an issue for a College.

@Fififizz new diagnoses alone don’t mean a reassessment of needs is required. Personally, I wouldn’t go down that route, anyway.

OT and EP can comment on PfA too. If you need a new social care report, you could look at an independent social worker assessment.

Provision should be based on the individual, not written to fit a placement.

So you are aware, phase transfer appeals are prioritised. Court time in the summer is set aside for phase transfer appeals. Those who get an appeal in early after the phase transfer deadlines will have their hearing heard before the start of the next academic year. Those who leave it until later, may not because there isn’t enough court time to hear all phase transfer appeals before the start of the academic year.

@Namechangeagain80 is it Parents in Need you are thinking of? If you are eligible for legal aid, that can also fund necessary assessments. You could also ask SENDIST to direct the LA to seek advice and information. Although that doesn’t work 100% of the time, and it doesn’t guarantee good reports.

You need to show it is necessary for special educational provision to be made via an EHCP. Look at if the school can make the special educational provision reasonably required and if they will. If they could, but won’t, it is still possible to secure an EHCP. If they can but only by providing support in excess of what would typically be expected, it is still possible to secure an EHCP. You can raise the inadequate NA in your case, but the whole case shouldn’t be just that.

@handmademitlove even without new evidence, it is highly likely there are amendments that need proposing, so you should still be able to make initial engagements with the WD process. Further amendments can be made at a later date.

If you will have late evidence, you can let SENDIST know.

You will need evidence. EHCPs are based on the evidence. Without evidence for the needs/provision, they won’t be included. It is very rare for NHS OT reports to be good enough and written in the right way for a watertight EHCP. So I wouldn’t just be waiting hoping they will provide something. If you can’t afford an independent assessment, try Parents in Need. You could ask SENDIST to direct the LA to seek advice and information. However, as I said to namechangeagain80, there is no guarantee SENDIST will agree. Even if they do, it doesn’t guarantee the advice and information will be of a good quality.

You don’t need to re-send evidence you have already submitted. You can write a position statement.

If the LA has failed to provide all the information required, you can bring it to SENDIST’s attention. Email the LA copying in SENDIST. Give it a while. Then, if that doesn’t work, email SENDIST copying in the LA and give it time. It takes time for SENDIST to pick up on it.

@thatsnotmygarden amendments were made after the draft was issued to clear up all the vague information and ensure everything was in there from the professional reports, so the only outstanding issues are around OT provision. There are statements from the EP and the school specifying need but both said they were not qualified to detail provision, so in that sense the case has been made for OT provision to be included. The LA are just a bit useless - local OT will only provide assessment if the child is already on the books, and they will only request independent assessment if an OT tells them it is needed 🙄I am considering sending a SEND7 to request that the LA carry out an assessment so there is information available for the appeal date in April. I assume this will then be discussed at the Case Review Meeting. Is this the right way to do this? deadline is Tuesday and I should have initial findings from OT by then to send as well as a clear position statement including the school request for OT provision.

None of this is helped by the fact that the named lawyer for the LA has left and I have not had any information about a replacement... so actually no-one to discuss the WD with anyway!

It is unlikely the only amendments required are to improve needs related to OT and add OT provision. I wouldn’t leave it until the CRH because leaving it to then means if the case is not ready to be heard, there is a chance the hearing will be pushed back. If you feel one is necessary, you could request a TCMH.

@thatsnotmygarden Thank you... I don't think we'd be eligible for legal aid. However it feels as though securing an EHCP could need a bottomless pit, which we would struggle with.

Can we ask that SENDIST direct the LA now when we make the initial appeal?

It's hard to know the entirety of what support DD needs because the assessment was so light touch. Noone has yet completely gotten to the bottom of DD's EBSA and noone has any solutions that have worked. I have my own views (and I think it's a combination of many factors).

We pay privately for a play therapist outside of school because when I requested it of the school, firstly they couldn't say how long the waiting list was and when I asked a second time, they didn't have provision. When I enquired recently as to whether they yet had a replacement play therapist, the SENCO said DD couldn't see her at the moment because she was having therapeutic support elsewhere (because we couldn't at school!) and she would need to ask how long we would need to wait between stopping one and starting another.

But how do we evidence that this is something DD needs (rather than us paying out £££ a month for shits and giggles)? A private psychological assessment?

Similarly when she masks at school, but has extreme meltdowns about attending, how do we evidence that she needs more support (and what that looks like?). A private EP assessment? I feel there's learning challenges too, which are impacting on her ability to attend, but because she's "meeting expectations", the EP didn't assess for them.

She had a private OT assessment two years ago (so wasn't for an EHCP and the recommendations weren't written as such); OT concluded she had "significant sensory modulation challenges". The school acknowledge her sensory challenges, the play therapist sees them. The school has put in various things - eg theraband on chair, offer of sensory circuits, quieter lunch, uniform adjustments...

But she still struggles - we have daily bedtime meltdowns over bedcovers, being too hot/cold, underwear, socks, most forms of clothing.. I actually don't know what she will wear in winter because she can't stand anything on her legs and it has got worse, hasn't worn trousers since Feb/March... But she hates being too cold (or too hot). She also has toilet anxiety because of increased interoception.

I guess we need another private OT assessment?

Do have a look at Parents in Need.

There are other charities whose information I have used in appeals for others before. Not all offer Tribunal standard reports, but the information gathered can sometimes be helpful for appeals. Although they all have their own eligibility criteria it is worth looking around at what is available. For example, Boparan Trust provides grants for some types of therapies. They aren’t medico-legal reports, but I have successfully used the data from these therapies in appeals. Hospital Saturday Fund does similar. Jessie’s Fund grant music therapy and a report. Again, they aren’t medico-legal reports, but I have successfully used the reports in appeals. Then there are charities for certain groups of people, e.g. Camp Simcha's counselling sessions for Jewish families or Fashion and Textile Children’s Trust grants for therapies for families in that industry. And some smaller local charities/CICs, e.g. therapy stars foundation and Inspirative Arts who evidence I have used previously. I have used Buttle UK’s grants for therapy/counselling sessions previously, but I don’t think they are doing those grants at the moment.

Once you have submitted your appeal, wait until the LA responds to the appeal, then use a SEND7.

Yes, you need evidence. This will demonstrate the needs and provision required. In your situation, I would look at EP first and foremost. Then, if you can afford others, I would look at OT, SALT, CP in that order.

You could ask the play therapist to write a report. If they haven’t written a report for an EHCP before, they will need some guidance, so when you ask, make sure you mention about it being detailed, specified and quantified and the woolly wording to avoid.

Just putting together my evidence to send to tribunal. In the EHCP, needs identified under "preparation for adulthood" are not included in section B, rather they are in a separate section. I am making a list of all identified needs that do not have provision detailed in section F, which includes most of the preparation for adulthood section. How are they written in other LA's documents? I have included them as identified provision but if they are not actually listed in section B will the tribunal consider this?

Edited to add - there is no section for provision associated with PfA, the LA say it is covered in the other sections. Except it isn't really!

There isn’t a standardised way EHCPs are laid out. All special educational needs must be in B. All special educational provision must be in F. That includes PfA provision. If B is poor, F will be too. There isn’t a section just for PfA. EHCPs only consist of sections A-K. No non-statutory section L or O or whatever, despite some LAs trying to invent them as non-statutory sections. But lots have subsections within B&F for different areas of needs/provision. This is why the WD needs to be amended. You should propose the necessary amendments to B&F.

@handmademitlove

Our EHCP is the same, a separate section headed PfA and lots of needs listed but no actual specific provision anywhere.

I just put something vague in my appeal grounds along the lines of the EHCP doesn’t adequately reflect child’s needs particularly re PfA and similar for provision. I’m not quite sure what changes we want making to the plan yet so I’m just trying to get it lodged for now.

@thatsnotmygarden
Thanks, that’s helpful advice.

We have had no meaningful social care report or provision. I will mull over what we need. Our plan is a ridiculous behemoth of a plan but at the time it was all so overwhelming and obviously the LA don’t help at all, in fact their involvement was quite the opposite with dirty tricks, my main focus was securing the placement.

Can you please explain to me how bits of any social care report that ‘educate or train’ go into the plan please and give me a few examples of what provisions these might be? As social care is something SENDIST can only make a recommendation about it’s not enforceable so even if I get an independent social care report how does it work in the EHCP? Also who pays for this provision? Is it from the SEN budget or social care team? I still find the whole process a bit of a mystery. The SEN CoP unhelpfully vague and our LA caseworkers try and pull the wool and make up the rules as they go along to suit.

Thank you.

Section 21(5) of the Children and Families Act 2014 states health care provision or social care provision which educates or trains is actually deemed to be special educational provision. Therefore, it belongs in F. And is enforceable.

Funding wise, ultimately the LA is responsible. However, there are often discussions at tripartite panels.

Although health and social care recommendations are not binding in the same way SENDIST’s Orders for the education sections are, sometimes JR is possible. It depends on the circumstances. Or going to the LGO/PHSO is possible.

Social care provision in H can sometimes be enforceable. It depends on the circumstances. But it is easier to enforce F.

For health care provision, this includes things like SALT, OT, physio, aqua/hydrotherapy, CBT, animal-assisted therapy…

For social care provision, some examples include things like accessing the community, trips out, engaging and interacting with others, PfA provision/life skills/ADLs/independent living skills (e.g. learning to dress/toilet/shop/cook/travel). Also think of some of the things a PA would do. Although I wouldn’t use the term PA because it is a term LAs often associated with social care provision. It is possible to have a PA via F but you want to avoid muddying the waters unnecessarily and making life harder for yourself. I use terms such as TA, HLTA, LSA, mentor, tutor, teacher.

Independent social worker reports can inform B&F. Just like an OT report can.

@thatsnotmygarden

Thank you. That’s very helpful. I suppose the next step is waiting for SENDIST to accept/process my appeal. Hopefully I did it correctly. The forms seemed to have changed since last time. I still can’t quite believe I’m going through this rigmarole again. 🙈

Then, hopefully it my appeal is lodged I can merge whatever comes out of the yr11 transition AR into the appeal process and think about the evidence required for the WD/how the plan needs to look for the next stage. All with zero help from the LA obviously! These forums are a godsend!

Hi everyone, first time poster here. Our child is having their needs assessment this week and I am really nervous. Our senco says we've got a strong case, but DC is still in the honeymoon period, trying their hardest for new start of school year etc, so I'm not sure they'll see much on the day when they visit.

Child is AuDHD with dyspraxia, sensory sensitivity. When dysregulated they go into fight flight and will hit/kick/throw/shout at peers that trigger them or run away without telling a grown up to a different part of school. School have worked very hard to put in support and it's working, but we are trying to prove that child has way over and above the reasonable sen offering. They go to secondary in September and if they lose all the support at secondary all hell will break lose! So we need this ehcp so support doesn't stop.

Our DC has a lot of support in all areas of need - cognition and learning because of ADHD and very disorganised etc, rushed work, struggles to focus... SEMH - physical and verbal aggression that needs a lot of support to manage... Communication and interaction - ASD, socially inappropriate responses etc, can't understand emotions, sensory/physical - huge sensory sensitivity which impacts learning.
We have a lot of evidence including 2 private reports (1 psychologist, 1 OT)... We see a private OT monthly for therapy sessions which hugely helps.
They are on the curriculum for their learning and love school... DC will do well when they can ❤️

I suppose no one has a crystal ball to say if we'll get awarded the EHCP, but is there anything I need to know before we go into the assessment this week? I feel so naive and worried!!

Thanks.

Try not to worry too much @Ehcphelpbeep . The visiting professionals will have seen it all before (presumably it's an educational psychologist visit?)

Welcome @Ehcphelpbeep,

When you say needs assessment, do you mean the educational psychologist's assessment? The needs assessment is the whole process. During the needs assessment, the LA must seek advice and information from:
a) the child’s parent or the young person;
b) educational advice (usually from the headteacher or principal);
c) medical advice and information from a health care professional;
d) psychological advice and information from an educational psychologist;
e) advice and information in relation to social care;
f) advice and information from any other person the local authority thinks appropriate;
g) where the child or young person is in or beyond year 9, advice and information in relation to provision to assist the child or young person in preparation for adulthood and independent living; and
h) advice and information from any person the child’s parent or young person reasonably requests that the local authority seek advice from.

H can include SALT, OT, psychologist, physio, etc. If you haven’t already, make sure you request the LA seeks advice and information from anyone relevant in your case.

If you, the report writers and the LA agree your existing reports are sufficient, they must not seek new evidence from that area. However, are your independent reports from someone with experience of writing reports for EHCPs? Are they written in the correct way? Are they still up to date? Do they consider the upcoming transition to secondary?

For the EP, it can be helpful to make a timeline of events and any previous assessments, etc. Also making notes on things like developmental history, needs/difficulties, likes/dislikes/what makes DC happy, what support is already in place, what has previously been tried, what worked/didn’t work, what is needed but unable to be delivered, what is important to DC/you and what is important for DC, how DC communicates/how others communicate with DC, aspirations, what you think DC needs, a bit about family/any other important people in DC’s life.

It can also help to write a list of questions to ask the EP such as what assessments will be undertaken, what observations will be done (e.g. structured and unstructured times, with peers, with adults), will they meet with DC 1:1, how long they will spend with DC. Ask if the EP will make recommendations for the need for further assessments where they believe they are necessary - sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t.

Finish by asking them to ensure the report is detailed, specified and quantified and requesting the report is sent to you at the same time as it is sent to the LA. You may receive push back on this, but if you request it, it should be done.

Lastly, you won’t have a finalised EHCP by the normal secondary school application deadline, so you should submit a normal application just in case.

@Fififizz I will PM you another thread to look at. I commented on the other thread under another name and posted some documents about PfA that may help you. They are also relevant for thinking about what social care provision is actually SEP. Easier to give you the link than repost on this thread.

Thank you. Yes, an educational psychologist visit!

Thank you. This is really thorough and helpful.

Yes, it's the educational psychologist's assessment. I assumed this formed the main part of the needs assessment and they were the ones the LA weighted most when considering whether to award an EHCP or not? Is that true?

For H we commissioned our private OT to conduct a full and thorough specialist EHCP report, which is written as evidence for the EHCP.

That's a really useful list to provide to / ask the EP - thank you.
Will the EP have access to the other reports through the local authority, or do I need to provide them with copies of the private professionals reports as well?

LAs do rely heavily on EP information. That is, unless other evidence suits their agenda more than the EP evidence does.

Sometimes LAs pass on other information. Sometimes they don’t.