EHCP support thread no. 3

[Phineyj]

A new thread for when no. 2 is full up.
Link to thread no. 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
Link to thread no. 2:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

I am the mum of an 11 year old girl with SEN and have spent the last 20 months battling for my local authority to issue an EHCP to support her transition from primary to secondary school. We are currently after draft stage after two tribunals. I've had so much useful advice and moral support from posters on here.

This new thread is here to help everyone, whether you're just starting out or are a battle-hardened veteran of years of this.

There is no such thing as a stupid question and there are many acronyms and technical terms so please ask for an explanation of anything that you don't understand.

SEN: special educational needs (sometimes SEND: special educational needs and disability)
SENCO: teacher at school charged with overall responsibility for students on roll with SEN
ECHNA: education care and health needs assessment - the process of a local authority commissioning reports to find out a child's needs
EHCP: the education care and health plan that details a child's needs and the agreed provision to meet them; a legally binding document
SENDIST: the special educational needs and disability tribunal - an independent appeal panel which considers parental appeals against Education Authority decisions about special educational needs.

Gone through my printout of the plan with a big pink highlighter and can see there is a few with the woolly wording that you described - but not all. You can see where they have copied and pasted the direct wording from the independent SALT report and where they've written it in house there are "would benefit from"s and "should have"s. I will bring this up in the phone call this morning but I don't think it's the root cause unfortunately.

Hi - I've come across this thread whilst looking for advice. Hoping someone maybe able to help!

Background - DS11 just moved into YR7. Struggled throughout primary, could not get any help. He has been out of school since beginning yr5. He happily attended an alternative provision during yr6, they applied for the EHCP on our behalf. They also suggested ASD highly likely and he has recently been diagnosed.

We had an EHCP agreed end of August and draft issued. The draft was mainly a copy of the EP report, however everything stated in the plan is assuming there is a child in school able to engage in the additional help/sessions listed. I went back to the LA with my list of queries etc, they were mainly swept aside and a final copy of the plan issued.
We've had 3 weeks of school - DS wants to and is trying with school, he's attending for short periods and has enjoyed some lessons with 1:1 support.

I've had a meeting with school to review and we are all in agreement that DS needs 1:1 support in managing the school environment.
School are also currently paying for temporary AP to support transition. I'd like to look into option of having some sort of AP written into the plan.
Who do I have these conversations with? School or the LA?
I'm feeling really frustrated as there's been little to no discussion around whether the plan is actually going to meet his needs and definitely in the short term it doesn't. (Hope this has made sense). TIA.

@holiholiholidays you need to appeal.

Between the time DS is attending school and the AP the school is funding, is DS receiving a full-time education?

No, he's not receiving full time education. He has 1 day a week at the AP. School are very much taking his lead. We go to school each day and talk through the timetable and agree which lessons he thinks he can try. He attended 4 lessons(out of a possible 20). Rest of the time is at home. (He's currently on an agreement part time timetable which I blindly agreed and signed).

@holiholiholidays as well as appealing the EHCP, you should request the LA makes provision under section 19 of the Education Act 1996. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use. Post back here if the LA ignore you, refuse or delay.

Thank you.

BrumToTheRescue please can you advise.
My daughter is on higher level funding in school but only receives about an hour. Other children who are violent and through chairs around get my daughters funding instead of her. I only have a few days until my daughters needs assessment goes before the panel. Could I write in the assessment that her funding gets diverted from her and used on other children.??? So scared to write the wrong thing.

My son is 5 in November. He has an EHCP & autism diagnosis and we would like for him to go to specialist provision however we are currently awaiting a place.

In the meantime he is attending a local mainstream school and is usually in their nursery class rather than reception (so a year below) due to his needs. He currently attends 3 afternoons a week. The LA have said this is not acceptable, whilst the school are happy to continue this arrangement (possibly increasing to 3 full days a week & some time with his reception class).

We have a meeting with the school & LA tomorrow to discuss. Just wondered if anyone had a similar experience or arrangement and how best to make our point?

I posted a couple of weeks back to say I was worried about the OT not being delivered (it's in the EHCP).

I chased it up and to my absolute astonishment, the case officer from the LA replied, said yes we do need to arrange this and pay for it, did so and the OT turned up last Wednesday!

Now, given that her visit was only announced by an email sent to the school's general info@ email at 3pm the day before the visit, a visit which could not be rearranged it said (use it or lose it), it was jolly lucky they cc-d me. I went into school specially on my day off to fetch child from class, make sure she had a bit of lunch etc (as the visit time coincided with the lunch hour).

And then the OT turned up saying she had to observe her in class!

Fortunately the SENCO took it all in stride and so did the teacher of the post lunch lesson, but what kind of bizarre service is this?!

I can well imagine the OT gets to schools frequently with them having no idea she's coming...

Anyway, will report back what her report says and if it's useful.

Regarding SEN provisions not being delivered for the first 3 weeks of term: this is obviously bad, but my experience as a teacher has been that schools do absolutely nothing in advance of 1st September so realistically nothing (of any kind) is delivered until the end of the month.

I mean, our budgets aren't open so I don't have working whiteboard pens and my students don't have revision guides. Because the order book isn't open yet.

@Onegentlepeer focus on the provision DD needs but isn’t receiving rather than the funding. At the minute, the funding is not legally ring fenced.

currently awaiting a place.

@Coatsy are you appealing? Has the LA refused to name your preferred school on the basis it is ‘full’? Is it wholly independent? Being ‘full’ is not defined in law. On its own, being ‘full’ is not enough of a reason to refuse to name your preference. The LA has to prove the school is so full admitting DS is incompatible in the legal sense. The bar is higher than many LAs and schools care to admit. It has to be based on something specific and is more than an “adverse effect”, “impact on” or “prejudicial to”.

You have the right to send DS part time until he is compulsory school age if you want to. Once compulsory school age, DS needs to be receiving a full-time education. Although that doesn’t necessarily mean full-time school. DS can attend school full time unless the school formally suspends/permanently excluded. If DS isn’t able to attend school full time, the LA will have a duty to ensure he still receives a suitable full-time education. If you wanted to and the school agreed, you could request flexischooling too. And in the interest of fullness you can, of course, EHE if you want. Unless you EHE, the LA is also responsible for anything detailed, specified and quantified in F of the EHCP.

@Needlenardlenoo glad you had the OT visit. Prior planning isn’t the LA’s (or many of the partners they work with) forte.

@BrumToTheRescue
Thank you for your advice. It is massively appreciated.

One of thing that school have suggested to try to get DD back into school this term is a reduced or part time timetable, basically dropping three subjects. Has anyone had success with fewer school hours as a way to get their DC in to school for the rest of the subjects? Or it has it just made the inevitable breakdown of an unsuitable school placement even more slow and drawn out?

I feel OK to try it but another part of me feels if the school is not right, then cutting down the hours is just continuing with a school that isn’t right.

Reduced timetables work for some, but not for others. If DD can’t attend at all at the moment, is dropping ‘just’ 3 subjects going to make that much difference? Unless the difficulties are triggered by those specific subjects? If DD is compulsory school age and can’t attend school full time, is alternative provision being provided?

DS3 thrived in mainstream with an EHCP and personalised timetable (he didn’t do all subjects) until last year. Then the wheels came off, and he was unable to cope in school at all. The time he spent in school was mostly outside the classroom. Then he started an AP 2 days a week and was supposed to attend school 3 days a week. This didn’t work and gradually it reduced to DS attending school 2 days a week at most, but not attending classes at all. So, it didn’t work for him. While this was going on, we were appealing his EHCP for EOTAS.

Brum thank you and that makes sense for me. How old was your DS at breakdown stage?. My DD is y8 now and attended about very little of y7.
We’re only at ECHNA stage now due to a change of schools. It’s not that those specific subjects are specifically causing the problem - everything and all aspects of school are awful if you ask my DD. They’re just not core subjects so trying to make cuts to the timetable these naturally came up first. I will mention the new timetable to the ECHNA contact person and keep researching local alternatives. There is no provision for the time missed equates to about 6 hours a week I think. I’m wondering if the LA will provide anything in reality but I will inform them and ask.

@EHCPerhaps DS3 was a similar age to your DD. If DD is only missing 6 hours, the LA is likely to still see that as a full-time education. However, I got the impression DD is actually missing more than that at the moment? Otherwise it is surprising the school wants to go down the reduced timetable pathway.

Brum can you say what’s surprising please about this offer? I’m trying to work out the pros and cons.

Like a lot of autistic DC, mine had low attendance throughout primary but was saved by Covid so their SEN was picked up late. So y7 had a shaky start followed by months of continuous no attendance. Then after a change of school late on in y7, to a smaller school, a few months of low attendance.

In y8 we’ve already had attendance problems so this new strategy proposed by school is intended to see if doing a few less school hours in the classroom (sounds like permanently- no options to reverse discussed) is going to work out better than frequent/continuous EBSA absences.

If this is not good practice of school to suggest in this situation then I would welcome any comments. I think in some ways it would take pressure off, but in other ways the school won’t be changing anything they do when DC is in really so I don’t know how sustainable it is going to be.

If DD is currently managing to attend school except for 6 hours a week, it is surprising the school is agreeing to a part time timetable for ‘just’ those 6 hours. Most are more likely to want DC in school full time then either working towards attending lessons for those 6 hours or other arrangements in school (e.g. working in the SEN department, interventions, library - it depends on what is possible with staffing when there isn’t an EHCP). Part time timetables are usually used by schools when DC are missing more school than ‘only’ 6 hours a week. Again it sounds like DD isn’t managing to attend for everything other than those 6 hours but maybe I am misinterpreting your posts?

Sorry if I’ve not been clear. 6 hours less per week reduction is a new offer from school to try to get DD back in to y8 after significant EBSA.

My worry is nothing much else is changed at school. No extra staff time in class like 1-1 TA support or small group working, no staffed quiet place at school to go to in breaks. No timetabled SENCO involvement. Just fewer hours per week, no greater accommodation by the school of the SEND needs that have been documented.
The dropped lessons themselves can be spent in library which is also used for teaching classes in (so that’s a no) or can be spent at home, which is obviously what will actually happen.

I can understand this as strategy about getting DC back into school daily for shorter days but surely only temporarily and with planned support in school? Or IABU and shorter days are a useful accommodation?

I thought it was something new until I asked if alternative provision is being provided. If DD isn’t currently attending for everything other than the 6 hours proposed, is alternative provision being provided?

In state schools, a part time/reduced timetable typically means DC is not in school full time. If they are in school but not attending lessons and are in, e.g. the library, that wouldn’t typically be called a part time timetable.

I know DD is in an independent, but in a state part time timetables should be short term. After that DC should be in school full time or alternative provision made as well or instead to ensure DC receive a full-time education. Unless the situation is in one of the small minority of cases where full-time provision in any form isn’t appropriate. That wouldn’t apply in your case if nothing else has been considered.

Dropping some subjects but remaining in school full time is more common. More common with an EHCP than without.

We re past the EHCNA deadline and hopefully have our child being visited by an educational psychologist in October which setting has agreed to, but unfortunately DSs current early years setting senco is now ignoring all requests for a meeting to discuss his learning plan and it's been months since the last one.

Occasionally we get a it's "not been a good day", but questioning whether we may end up pulling him out after the educational psychologist visit and I need to know whether if we have him in no educational setting until reception will this harm an EHCP application/naming a specialist setting at all.

The EHCP process will continue whether you remove DS from nursery or not. However, many find remaining in the system can help secure a specialist placement if that is possible.

If I remember rightly, you should either have a finalised EHCP by now or the LA should have informed you if they are not going to issue. You need to email the Director of Children’s Services threatening Judicial Review. If that doesn’t work, you need a pre-action letter. Is the EP an independent one you have arranged?

Hi all, back again, hope everyone is well. Our ECHNA is now in progress and DS has had a relatively smooth start in reception - I'm praying that continues!

He was seen by an Ed Psych in school and we've since spoken. I felt she got a good measure of his difficulties and strengths, but she also did say it would be borderline as to whether he needed enough support to issue. I'm trying not to get ahead of myself, especially as we've had not the OT report yet which I think is his biggest area of need, but what happens with all the support that's recommended in reports if the LA don't issue? Do the school still need to provide eg the support from a TA the SLT has recommended?

The school must make their best endeavours to meet a pupil’s SEN. They must also make reasonable adjustments. That does not mean all the provision recommended will be provided, I’m afraid. The only way of legally guaranteeing provision is via an EHCP. Take what the EP said with a pinch of SALT. They are being paid by the LA. If the LA refuses to issue, appeal.

Thanks, @BrumToTheRescue. That was pretty much what I suspected! I've already heard eg the speech therapist who did my autism parenting course complain that they get told that they've only got enough time to see kids with EHCPs.

Ah I feared that might be the case, might be an email to the nurseries regional manager to tell them about the senco issues then to try to avoid pulling him out entirely.
Yes the ed psych is one we have arranged ourselves.

we re going to see if we can find a way to get the pre action letter through legal aid (and their advice on phrasing the pre warning email) and if so email the director with the warning shot whilst the letters in progress by the solicitor (I asked the civil advice line about a funded pre action letter a few weeks back but the providers they could refer me to said they wouldn't do one for us or be able to advise until week 20 which we ve just hit).