EHCP support thread no. 3

[Phineyj]

A new thread for when no. 2 is full up.
Link to thread no. 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
Link to thread no. 2:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

I am the mum of an 11 year old girl with SEN and have spent the last 20 months battling for my local authority to issue an EHCP to support her transition from primary to secondary school. We are currently after draft stage after two tribunals. I've had so much useful advice and moral support from posters on here.

This new thread is here to help everyone, whether you're just starting out or are a battle-hardened veteran of years of this.

There is no such thing as a stupid question and there are many acronyms and technical terms so please ask for an explanation of anything that you don't understand.

SEN: special educational needs (sometimes SEND: special educational needs and disability)
SENCO: teacher at school charged with overall responsibility for students on roll with SEN
ECHNA: education care and health needs assessment - the process of a local authority commissioning reports to find out a child's needs
EHCP: the education care and health plan that details a child's needs and the agreed provision to meet them; a legally binding document
SENDIST: the special educational needs and disability tribunal - an independent appeal panel which considers parental appeals against Education Authority decisions about special educational needs.

@addies we're in the same position- DD isn't genius-level academic but is pretty capable- on target for maths and excelling in reading. She's in year 5, no behaviour issues and dx of autism and Dyspraxia. But she's very 'classically' autistic, mainly speaks in echolalia, can't do normal social interactions at all. She has a bit of SALT at school and a reasonable chunk of the class TA's attention.

Luckily our senco is pretty on it, if overstretched, and is also clear on the importance of an EHCP for transition. If honest I'm terrified the wheels will come off when the hormones kick in. She also can't organise herself, tell the time and has no sense of direction, so secondary is going to be very difficult to navigate.

We're on the refusal to assess appeal now, grounds for refusal were not legal or related to the two tests. So we're not much further on than you. Your list sounds great, I don't think the LA (or our LA) even bother reading any of the documents anyway.

Also, still not heard from SENDIST after updating the missing paperwork last Sunday. Should I chase or do I need to wait the 10 days a second time?

@Macramepotholder SENDIST is very busy at the moment. Don’t worry about a lack of response yet.

OK @BrumToTheRescue thanks, tbh I'd prefer not to sit on hold for ages anyway...!

@addies Our primary HT said she thinks the reasons the secondaries are giving are ridiculous and she's going to bring it up with the LA -- whatever that means. She thinks the provisions are deliverable in a MS setting and pretty much best practice. (Although primary has had several years to implement best practice with DS and has done very little. Now that he's on his way out, I guess it's easier for them to see him as someone else's problem.)

Once a school is named in section I they must admit (if they feel strongly they may try going to the Secretary of State and JR).

@BrumToTheRescue do you have any idea how often state schools do this? If they are named in I and decide to challenge it, when would we know this? What would that process look like? Thanks.

@SpaceInvader321 yes, it does sound as if that's the case doesn't it, but I guess the HT can only help your cause now whatever their reasoning is!!

DDs primary have been great. They've just increased the RAs made to her. We aren't talking anything earth shattering by the way, just things like, a special teacher in school she can go when she needs them / is anxious / struggling, movement breaks, help with daily transitions (so a little timetable she can change as her day does), access to ear defenders, eats lunch in the library, can spend break times in the library if overwhelmed, given little jobs around the school by a teacher when anxious etc. The deputy head (her special teacher) agrees that these things will be absolutely crucial for her in MS, so of course my plan was to get an EHCP in order to ensure they facilitate these basic things. My personal view looking ahead is that the wheels are already falling off and that even these (fairly basic) provisions won't help in the long run and we'll have to home school using Minerva perhaps or similar. But I need to give the best shot I can as she wants to attend, do well and find a tribe. Feels impossible ☹️

Hi there,
My DS is 4 in Sept he currently goes to a nursery where he gets 1 to 1. However we are now onto the EHCP and they are talking to nursery today via zoom etc as the person lives nowhere near.
Then after work today they are ringing me and i just want to make sure i have a bit of preparation. I only found out yesterday just before 5pm this was happening.

Any advice on what i should be discussing?

TIA

@midnytshow if you have time, make a timeline of events/previous assessments/diagnoses etc. Make notes on developmental history, strengths/difficulties, likes/dislikes, aspirations, what provision is already in place, what has previously been tried, what worked/didn’t work, what is needed but unable to be delivered, what you think DS needs/why. At the end of the conversation, finish by asking them to ensure their report is detailed, specified and quantified and to send you a copy of the report once it is written.

@SpaceInvader321 it doesn’t happen in the vast majority of cases where the school has objected when consulted because in the vast majority of cases the schools know the reasons they have cited when consulted aren’t lawful reasons for refusing to name the placement in sI. If that was their intention, you would know very quickly. Even if the school goes to the SoS, they have a duty to admit whilst awaiting an outcome and the result is still appealable via to SENDIST.

Thank you Brum definitely to the rescue that is so helpful. I'll do this on my lunch break!

@addies you sound like a bit of an overthinker (not a criticism - I'm the same). Maybe don't borrow trouble by panicking about things that haven't yet come to pass. Your thinking will evolve and you will discover more about the potential secondary settings. My thinking has changed a lot over my DD's school years 4-6 as to what would suit her and what I need to do.

That's complicated of course because of the stupid top heavy bureaucratic process but you do find individuals even in the sub optimal system we're in who can guide you and who will make an effort to include and support specific children.

Yes of course as @BrumToTheRescue is well experienced with, if you throw enough time and effort and legal knowledge at the process you can force schools to do and pay for certain things, but it's definitely worth as a parent thinking about how much time (and often, money!) you're prepared to commit in that direction and what effect it might have on relationships.

For my own part I have decided I cannot do another tribunal this year. The two I have done have taken up so much time. So even if I can't get the EHCP quite fit for purpose for year 7, I could challenge anything that's not working at the first annual review, appeal then, look into a different school, etc.

Schools are really struggling financially. That's going to lead to school managements acting defensively. We'll have to see if an election improves things a little, but it would take several years to even begin tackling the current mess!

@Phineyj thank you, I am a total overthinker so I understand your correct observation!! I am also anxious as this is all new, don't have much support and have been let down in the past in similar situations so have a tendency to really assume the worst in every situation, which i appreciate, is often unhelpful.

I am wondering whether I should retreat back to my previous path, which was to try and build relationships with the secondary now, and hopefully agree some reasonable adjustments without an EHCP. I hear that they are very aware of the bad rep with SEN locally and on social media, and are desperately trying to improve in that area. Perhaps I can pop up at just the right time.

I'm not trying to put you off applying for EHCP. I think you should do that because it's a lot harder for schools to deny they were supposed to provide something that's detailed in a legal document than something that's voluntarily agreed (which is so dependent on goodwill and staff staying in post). Plus it's well worth getting the assessments and they can be done a) more quickly and b) not at your expense, through the ECHNA. And it opens more school possibilities as you don't need to be in catchment.

I just don't want you to go into it thinking that the EHCP will solve all the problems. As I am appreciating now two years in, it can just be the start of new problems!

There are lots of people and organisations who will help you to decode anything you don't understand and some expert posters on here too. So don't worry about that.

You can progress the ECHNA while still talking to secondaries and keeping your ear to the ground. Just don't believe any statements along the line of 'in our experience children like X don't get EHCPs'. You can read the SEN Code 2014 yourself easily enough and see what it actually says. Clue: not what schools and LAs would like it to!

My own levels of trust in authorities have been severely dented by this process and they weren't particularly high to begin with, having spent most of my career in the public sector...it is a little grim but hey ho, onwards...

@Phineyj I work in the public sector too, it really fuels my mistrust, that's for sure! You make a good point about staff staying in post.
My eyes are well and truly open in terms of what an EHCP can achieve...I actually think in the long run my DD won't manage MS or any school, full stop. But trying to do my best so that she can try.
I am decoding things thanks to this thread, and lots of you, which I am grateful for.
I am going to apply for the needs assessment, after reading how low the threshold really is. I was watching a story on Instagram recently where Susie J Verril was talking about their ND sons initial needs assessment being rejected. She appealed but wasn't prepared for just how quickly it was overturned and agreed, and that's with no due the information provided! This gives me confidence we can get that, at least!

The threshold really is so low @addies. They will almost certainly reject you initially because that's just what local authorities seem to do. Whack in an appeal and you might not even have to make it to tribunal.

I know secondary school seems very scary, but weirdly it's turned out to be a much better environment for my eldest. Primary was much more unpredictable and often boring. Secondary has provided a lot more opportunity and structure. Obviously all children are different, but I do like to share our experience in case it offers a little hope.

I have had two detailed SENDIST judgements now and tbh it was a relief to find their reading comprehension was the same as mine, as opposed to the weird alternate reality my LA appear to exist in!

Guys: anyone know a bit about OT?

I'm redrafting the crappy EHCP draft from my LA which strangely has left out ALL the OT provision recommended by their own OT report...

The advice for sections B and F is good as is but for E, outcomes, the OT's put this, which I find a bit vague. Can I improve it to make it more SMART? How?

By 11 years of age, CHILD NAME will:
• Use learned self-regulatory strategies, including but not limited to requesting a movement break and deep breathing, to complete school based academic and morning routine tasks, with minimal verbal cues in 3 out of 5 days per week.

@UnendingSaga that is encouraging.

I teach in an inclusive secondary and despite many financial, resource, buildings, behavioural and attendance issues I see colleagues being kind to children and young people every day and as a result lots of children doing well. Not to minimise the problems but schools do know they must try very hard to get year 7 integrated.

Does every LA have to have a provisions officer whose job it is to make schools comply with legal duty for provisions in EHCP?

We have a watertight B/F but provisions are not being done e.g. disrupted pretty much daily during exam season for 3 years as TA's needed to cover exams as scribes etc.

School say nothing can be done, can't magic staff out of thin air. I say you can't play one child's needs off against another. EHCP is there as a legally enforceable document.

Options:

1. Email SEND Govenor/s
2. Contact Provision Officer at LA
3. Pre protocol action letter thread of JR

Would like to keep amicable with head but feels like we have had 3 years of endless meetings and he just wrings his hands and says no money no staff no provision at certain times. I get schools are in a mess financially but the law is the law for good reason.

Will Govs just back the head?
Will the LA officer be a chocolate teapot?
Will I have to follow through with a threat and need to engage costly solicitor time or do the LA usually cave before this is necessary?

Thanks All.

Isn't that the wrong way round - the LA has the duty to provide/pay? So actually you need the school enforcing the LA doing its job? Beyond frustrating for you but that's how I think it's supposed to work legally.

I do think speaking to the SEN governor is a good idea though.

@UnendingSaga that really is encouraging, thank you so much for that. I know from my daughter's current deputy head that there are truly people out there that care so much and try so hard within a broken system. And you are right to point out your experience because maybe my daughter will actually thrive!! As @Phineyj said, I shouldn't borrow trouble!!

@addies - in my experience it is really difficult getting these low-level and personalised provisions to work in a secondary setting unless the school is genuinely inclusive and cares about your child, and the SENDCO understand their needs, and will advocate for them with other teachers. In research literature relating to neurodiversity, the transition to secondary is a very common point of significant challenge for ND kids, given sensory and social differences, which can result in increased anxiety and EBSA, so doing all you can to ensure your child's needs are understood and provided for is very sensible IMO.

DC may surprise you with her social development. My view was that we should start by seeing if we could make mainstream work. Three years in, and DC is hanging in there, sustained by friendships, and is learning a lot about life which I hope will help prepare them for adulthood and the workplace. They are benefiting from a broad curriculum and being part of a diverse social group. Are they being supported to achieve their academic potential or helped to address challenges linked to their neurodevelopmental differences - definitely not. Not sure what the right answer is...

I totally agree with @Proserphina there. It is really important to be prepared and do whatever you can to make sure the right support is going to be there for your child. Get the EHCP, have all the chats, try and find the best school you can. Always be ready to ask for more the minute you think it's needed. Never be worried about being "That Parent".

@Proserphina thanks. I think we share the same perspective. My daughter really wants the chance to 'find her tribe' at secondary in a way that she hasn't been able to at primary, despite having 1 longstanding friendship. She sees that future at a mainstream.

I'm not sure what the right answer is either, I guess we just have to work with the best of a bad job, and keep pushing for better. Did anyone see Neurodivergent_lous (Instagram handle) speech at parliament regarding her education experience in mainstream? It was very balanced and moving

Understood @UnendingSaga 🫡

I will do everything you've stated. I find this extremely hard as I struggle to make eye contact when I'm nervous and can be very proccupied by a need to get it all 100% right, but I need to do this for my DD in a way it wasn't done for me!

DD2 has ASD and is an adult now (so a different situation in schools) but secondary was easier for her. Sadly, I can’t say the same for DS3 despite a supportive school and an EHCP. DS2 is somewhere in the middle and DS1 never stepped foot in secondary.

@midnytshow Brum was DD1’s favourite TV programme for a while.

@addies personally, if you think an EHCP is required, I would pursue the EHCP. An EHCP can ensure DC receives the support they need and can secure far more support than DC would otherwise receive and far more than the majority of parents can afford to fund themselves. You can still speak to schools.

@Phineyj ond thing to take into consideration when deciding whether to appeal following finalising the initial EHCP or waiting until after the first AR is timescales. You don’t yet have a finalised EHCP, say it is finalised mid June (sorry, I can’t remember your timescales) so the first AR is mid June of Y7, you won’t get the right of appeal until mid July of Y7 or September of Y8 (depending on if the LA propose to amend or not). By the time you get to the finalised EHCP following an appeal, it could well be Y9. So if you think there is something DD requires now but isn’t in the EHCP, it could be a long time before DD receives what she requires. I’m not saying it is the wrong way to go, but to take the time lapse into account when making that decision.

I would focus on the outcome not being realistic, achievable or specific enough IMO, for example it could become by the end of Y7 (or KS3 depending on DD’s needs. 11 is pointless DD is already 11 or will be very soon making it neither achievable or realistic) X will be able to request movement breaks with minimal verbal cues (if that is ever going to happen. For some, it would be setting them up to fail.) at least 3 out of 5 days per week.

@Alltheyearround every LA has a Monitoring Officer whose role covers reporting illegal/unlawful behaviour of the LA, who is ultimately responsible for ensuring the provision in F is provided. I would email the DCS and the MO threatening JR. Sometimes the threat works, but sometimes it doesn’t, so you may have to follow through with the threat. There is a long wait, but SOSSEN can help with a pre-action letter free of charge for failure to provide SEP.