EHCP support thread no. 3

[Phineyj]

A new thread for when no. 2 is full up.
Link to thread no. 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
Link to thread no. 2:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

I am the mum of an 11 year old girl with SEN and have spent the last 20 months battling for my local authority to issue an EHCP to support her transition from primary to secondary school. We are currently after draft stage after two tribunals. I've had so much useful advice and moral support from posters on here.

This new thread is here to help everyone, whether you're just starting out or are a battle-hardened veteran of years of this.

There is no such thing as a stupid question and there are many acronyms and technical terms so please ask for an explanation of anything that you don't understand.

SEN: special educational needs (sometimes SEND: special educational needs and disability)
SENCO: teacher at school charged with overall responsibility for students on roll with SEN
ECHNA: education care and health needs assessment - the process of a local authority commissioning reports to find out a child's needs
EHCP: the education care and health plan that details a child's needs and the agreed provision to meet them; a legally binding document
SENDIST: the special educational needs and disability tribunal - an independent appeal panel which considers parental appeals against Education Authority decisions about special educational needs.

Hi everyone

Could anyone tell me why I might get a totally random referral letter through the post off the community paediatrics team ? It doesn't say what the referral is for, just for ds to be seen by their service... it is sent to myself and the school senco. Ds has just been awarded his echp, could it be something to do with this ?
Ds is also off school with EBSA and has been since feb.

I guess phone them up on Tuesday @vacay?

Could be you were referred ages ago and have just reached the top of a waiting list?

We saw a community paediatrician a year ago (after a year's wait after I asked the GP to refer us because I wanted our private ASD and ADHD diagnoses officially endorser by the NHS) and there was supposed to be a 6 month follow up. That was 9 months ago, nothing and I could well imagine myself forgetting and then a letter comes through next year or something...

Thanks @Phineyj yeah I will do just wondering what it is !
The only thing I could think is a year ago or so school referred for an adhd assessment, that letter came through but I decided to put it on the back burner for a few different reasons, told the senco this, all fine and it was keft as it was. Maybe the senco has referred ds again ? But Could a senco make a referral for something like that without a parents permission?

More likely the primary care Trust has gone through its referrals list, noticed you didn't have an appointment and offered it again?

Perhaps take it - although ours didn't tell me anything I didn't know, the doc had some good tips and ideas.

That's a very good point, very well could be that ! Yes I probably will. At the time I was heavily pregnant and the senco scared me abit saying I had to do all this stuff before they would accept the referral through, involving agencies like social services and that I'd have to do certain tasks basically proving we're good parents and I just thought wtf??? I don't need any tasks to do I've got a toddler, heavily pregnant and an autistic ds at home all the time 😂

@vacay if it was related to the EHCNA it should have taken place before now. Although you may find it is related and it is late.

Ahh thank you. What will it involve do you know ? As the letter doesn't state a thing just that they've received a referall for ds to be seen by their service...

Well what happened at ours was a nice nurse weighed DD and measured her height, the Dr asked her a few questions and then DD and DH were sent to sit in the waiting room while the Dr talked at me for ages. And I do mean AT.

He moaned a bit about how he had very little power to decide anything these days, it was taking him ages to clear the backlog of cases and it had been much better when he was a young consultant.

Then I had to evaluate his bedside manner on a little form. He moaned about that also but I did kind of feel for him. Not dignified.

He then sent a long letter endorsing the private diagnosis, recommending a service DD should see about her anxiety (which wouldn't accept a referral), recommending a parenting course (only available in the day time so neither of us could do it as we were at work), recommended some vitamins (DD wouldn't take), mentioned some free online seminars (those were quite good) and said we should see him in 6 months (still waiting a year later).

So that was our odd but not unhelpful experience!

@vacay they will cover all the usual history questions, family history, any concerns, strengths/difficulties, etc. Depending on DS’s presentation, as well as height and weight, they may want to do blood pressure, oxygen levels, heart rate, a physical examination, bloods, etc. Sometimes there are questionnaires to complete. They may have some tasks for DS to complete. They may recommend assessments from other professionals and suggest onwards referral(s).

The community paed DS1&3 saw during their EHCNAs was in the LA’s pocket. Luckily, both saw/see other medical teams, so it wasn’t a problem. The current community paed DS1 is under isn’t as bad but they are just there in the background because he sees many other specialist teams. DS3 has been discharged. The community paed DS2 had an appointment with during his EHCNA was OK.

Oh, what the hell !! Sounds pointless in all honesty ! So they're just basically confirming they're actually autistic/adhd or whatever it is they've been diagnosed with ? 🤔🤔🤔

Ooh okay. See I've been told none of this by the senco, I didn't realise they'd have a health assessment. What is the point of it though ? I understand it's part of having the echo, or rsther part of the assessment for one but I don't understand why it's really needed

@vacay not all do have a health assessment. During the EHCNA the LA must seek advice and information from a health care professional (Reg 6(1)(c) of the SEN Regs 2014), but that doesn’t necessarily have to be a full health assessment and, like social care advice and information, it is often not sought.

The EHCNA covers education, health and social care. DC with SEN often have health care needs and many require health care provision (which may actually be classed as special educational provision because it educates or trains). Without seeking advice and information the health and social care needs and provision sections of an EHCP is likely to be incomplete &/or inadequate and in some cases there may be educational needs and provision missed.

Yes it did all feel a bit pointless but although actually no-one has ever questioned our private assessments, it is good to have on NHS headed that they were considered of good quality and to NICE guidelines.

Oh of course, sorry I must seem so ignorant now !! Of course there are children out there with complex care needs. Feel dumb now !! Thanks for explaining it all to me

Oh yeah definitely so it was worthwhile really ! How long did it take your private assessments if you don't mind me asking ?
I was really lucky with ds, his needs were flagged up at nursery so all in all from noticing his needs to actual diagnosis it was only about 9 months

Well it was 2020, so not a great year to need to see anyone for anything tbh!

We got on the private place's books in the June and saw them (on a cancellation) in October.

@vacay you shouldn’t feel ignorant or dumb. You aren’t either of those.

It isn’t only those with complex medical needs who have health care needs, some without complex needs will have health care needs.

Once you get a draft, is there a limit to how many schools you can ask the LA to consult?

I’ve contacted some ARPs/SSs to ask about suitability and a few have said get in touch once you have an EHCP so we can give more accurate info.

But if you only get 15 days to respond to the draft and name a school/type of school that doesn’t seem like long enough to hear back from the schools, visit and make a decision.

Hi @Ponche, I must say, I don't really understand this part of the process myself, although I think you can ask for an extension to the 15 days (and surely it being half term in most places is an obvious issue), so hopefully someone more knowledgeable can help you.

@Ponche you can state more than one placement, but if you have a preference as to which one is your preferred option, you need to make that extremely clear. And, like @Phineyj posted, you can request longer.

@Phineyj @BrumToTheRescue thanks a lot.

NHS SLT rang me back and said they won’t be doing a further assessment/report as they did a report in November (our first and last appointment) and when they sent it to the LA in April it was less than 6 months old. So they don’t need to assess further.

Even though that report has no recommendations tailored for an EHCP. But it’s fine as hopefully they will just consider my private one instead.

Sorry, it’s me again.

Is it true that because DD doesn’t start school until Sep 2025, the LA don’t have to consult schools/name a setting if they issue an EHCP this summer.

Instead they’re telling me a setting will be named in the next review (if an EHCP is issued).

The LA must still consult/name a placement (EOTAS excepted) if they finalise this summer. They don’t however have to name the placement for Sept 2025 until 15th Feb 2025.

@BrumToTheRescue thanks a lot, that makes sense.

I was questioning this as she’s moving to a new nursery in Sep 2024 (and so ideally this would be named on the EHCP if they finalise this summer).

Currently, they can meet need and have offered a place. However, I guess this could change if they receive the draft EHCP and are consulted.

One particular recommendation in the OT report about the learning environment (I also have a separate question to ask about this)- if the LA include this recommendation in the draft, I worry the new nursery (mainstream) will not be able to meet this need and will say no, meaning she can’t go there in September.

Although it’s highly likely that the LA won’t include that in the draft for that exact reason and that’s why they want to finalise without naming a setting. If they don’t include it, I will have to appeal as I need that recommendation to be properly considered before I choose a placement for school next year.

After reading the OT report, I would prefer her to go to the new nursery for one year from this September and then a more specialist setting from Sep 2025 onwards.

I don’t mind her staying at her current nursery until reception, but the problem is the same - if the new nursery are consulted and say no, then the currently nursery would also most likely say no for the same reasons.

Is there any law I can quote about naming a setting for Sep 2024 at least?

@Ponche what type of nursery is it?

If it is not wholly independent, the LA must name your preferred school unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.
(section 39(4) of the CAFA 2014)

Reg 12 of the SEN Regs states “When preparing an EHC plan a local authority must set out…i) the name of the school, maintained nursery school, post-16 institution or other institution to be attended by the child or young person and the type of that institution or, where the name of a school or other institution is not specified in the EHC plan, the type of school or other institution to be attended by the child or young person (section I);”
Although EOTAS is an exception with lots of case law since the Regs were written. Where mainstream is named as type case law says normally a particular placement should be named.