EHCP support thread no. 3

[Phineyj]

A new thread for when no. 2 is full up.
Link to thread no. 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
Link to thread no. 2:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

I am the mum of an 11 year old girl with SEN and have spent the last 20 months battling for my local authority to issue an EHCP to support her transition from primary to secondary school. We are currently after draft stage after two tribunals. I've had so much useful advice and moral support from posters on here.

This new thread is here to help everyone, whether you're just starting out or are a battle-hardened veteran of years of this.

There is no such thing as a stupid question and there are many acronyms and technical terms so please ask for an explanation of anything that you don't understand.

SEN: special educational needs (sometimes SEND: special educational needs and disability)
SENCO: teacher at school charged with overall responsibility for students on roll with SEN
ECHNA: education care and health needs assessment - the process of a local authority commissioning reports to find out a child's needs
EHCP: the education care and health plan that details a child's needs and the agreed provision to meet them; a legally binding document
SENDIST: the special educational needs and disability tribunal - an independent appeal panel which considers parental appeals against Education Authority decisions about special educational needs.

Yes. It is a great pity the system is so adversarial. There actually is more detail of timings elsewhere in the document. I did my best to tighten everything up. But if it is possible for the LA to claim they never said they'd fund it (which seems MOST unreasonable when they included it) and I'm not able to establish what the funding is then intended to cover, and I can only (possibly) ensure compliance by doing yet more unpaid admin... Then I may as well just go ahead and try to find private provision, because my daughter needs the input now, not in two years' time.

It is really important to focus on what is detailed, specified and quantified in F rather than funding. It is that provision that is enforceable. The LA does not have to provide anything not detailed, specified and quantified.

There actually is more detail of timings elsewhere in the document.

That’s often the case. It is why I said you really need someone to look at the whole section to know if it is enforceable.

You could also look for independent provision now then appeal when you next have the right of appeal.

OK, thank you.

I won't be doing this (no time) but it's good to know I could if I wanted.

@Needlenardlenoo I would still go back to the LA and tell them they need to provide it. A lot of the time they don't know what they're doing anyway, so even if the wording isn't as legally tight as it should be they might not realise that. And if you were told who the provider was that suggests something ought to be happening. I wouldn't give in and start paying for it myself until you'd had a shout at your case worker.

Thanks, I have emailed them today. I never met our old case worker. Our relationship was limited to a couple of email exchanges (in nearly two years!) We've got a new one, whom I've had no contact from at all. Her out of office said she was feeling ill...

I can chase them while trying to get a private quote I think. The logistics are going to be complicated anyway I think, as the sensory place we saw was quite far away and they may well insist we re-do the assessment as it's been a while. And DD may refuse to go!

Good luck with it all @Needlenardlenoo it sounds bonkers that it can be mentioned on the EHCP but not funded by the LA.

So if it’s mentioned within the EHCP but the LA won’t fund it, why is it mentioned at all? If they won’t fund it (and you weren’t able to personally), then what’s meant to happen? It sounds like some kind of prank joke like ‘yes we can see that DD will benefit from OT but no it won’t be funded by us.’ Is this really the type of tricks that LA’s like to play?

@Needlenardlenoo you mean the caseworker has been in post for at least 2 whole years? Wow. Not many last that long!

@MinnieTruck LAs love vague and woolly wording because it leaves parents thinking they have been listened to and DC will be supported. Have you seen the mock poster comparing EHCP wording to an employment contract?

Here you go....

Gosh, how awful but accurate is that poster? No one would take a job on those conditions so I’m not sure why LA’s think it’s okay to do this for our vulnerable children.

Have many people on the thread had to challenge the wording of their DC’s EHCP? My daughter’s was mainly around communication and was quite straight forward however I do think DS’ will be way more complex.

I’m wondering how stressful the process of appealing through SENDIST may be if the LA decide not to amend the wording. Of course I’m jumping the gun here but it’s crossed my mind!

@MinnieTruck sadly, many have to appeal to get a watertight EHCP, especially in recent years. I have had several content appeals for my two with EHCPs over the years.

LAs do it because it saves them money.

Appeals can be stressful, but it is worth it when you have watertight EHCPs, IMO. From your previous posts, I suspect you will be eligible for legal aid if you need to appeal.

Just popping in to say hi and that we have our refuse to assess appeal date now for October 2nd. It's on the papers.

What should I be doing in anticipation of sendist ordering the LA to assess? She'll need EP, OT and SALT assessments and I don't trust the LA will do good, timely ones so do I need to line private ones up now?

@Phineyj glad the first couple of weeks has gone well. What's the technicality that it can be in the EHCP but then not funded? What a pain. Also why am I not surprised they owe schools loads of money.

@BrumToTheRescue I did think that you would have experience appealing the contents of the EHCP at least once🤦‍♀️ it’s a shame but as you say, worth it in the long run.

Yes, I’ll definitely be listening to your advice and using legal aid this time round if I do need to appeal. I refuse to represent myself again! It’s unnecessary stress that I can do without.

In regards to the EHCNA for DS, I’m waiting for the LA to confirm whether they’ll be seeking advice and information from SALT. They acknowledged that DS has frequent SALT sessions but haven’t included it under the list of professionals on the hub. I’ll be seeing DS SALT on Monday so if the LA hasn’t got back to me by then, I’ll ask her if she’s been contacted.

If the LA doesn’t include SALT for some bizarre reason, I’ll use the IPSEA template and ask for the LA to consult Audiology and Neurology as well as SALT. I’m still wondering whether to include Ophthalmology as everything is okay with DS’ vision so far.

Edited to add that I’m just putting my thoughts down so I can refer to this thread for my next steps! I should really own a notepad

@MinnieTruck for us, a watertight EHCP with all the provision required is definitely worth the hassle. DS1&3 have a huge amount support we (and the vast, vast majority of people) could not afford privately.

We are in the middle of our third appeal in 18 months. Current one is for a refusal to issue for DS2. (The others were a B&F and extended appeal for DS1 and a BFI, extended appeal and consequential amendments to E for DS3.) My other two DSs have had their EHCPs since they were young, but DS2 didn’t need one until his impulsivity worsened more recently. He will need less provision, but it will still be worth it.

The whole thing is a scam if you ask me!

I do admire your stamina @BrumToTheRescue though.

I am not sure if the case worker lasted two years. They didn't tell me who our case worker was until about two days before the EHCNA "went to panel" so that was September 2023 if I remember correctly. I'd been dealing with a nameless entity for the year up till then. Kind of like the Borg?!

But she is still employed there so I guess she is doing well in terms of longevity.

Well done @Macramepotholder, that's progress (I'm the lady you had coffee with, by the way).

@Needlenardlenoo my experience isn’t unusual, unfortunately. There are others on MN who have had multiple appeals for their DC over the years &/or several appeals in quick succession recently.

DS1&3 have very expensive EOTAS packages. There’s no way we could fund even a fraction of their provision. Home life is much better now compared to when they didn’t have their needs met, so it is worth it and there is no other option but to carry on.

Apologies @Macramepotholder. I missed your post. Personally, I wouldn’t have independent assessments now. By all means, look around to see what professionals you would use/you could even ask about their waiting times, but I wouldn’t have the assessments done now. Anyone good will have long waits unless you are lucky with a cancellation. And if you have assessments now, if you have to appeal refusal to issue you may decide on don’t need assessments from all the professionals and instead you desperately need to target your money at e.g. independent OT and SALT reports and the LA EP report will do (not brilliant but satisfactory compared to the need to get independent SALT and OT). Then save seeking an independent EP report for if you need to appeal BFI. Whereas if you seek them all now and you have to, e.g. appeal refusal to issue and BFI, you risk the reports being considered out of date by the time you get at a hearing.

@BrumToTheRescue yes, I remember you mentioning on the pub thread that DS2 was met with a ‘no to assess’ decision. Good luck with the appeal, I’m sure SENDIST will have the decision overturned anyway!

I have an evidence deadline for tribunal not until October. But almost ready to send it. Is it better to send it now or wait until the deadline?

@Phineyj yes I know! Glad the start of school has gone well, but not surprised the LA is playing silly.

Thanks @BrumToTheRescue - so it wouldn't help to have brilliant reports at the start of the process (i.e. make it less likely we'll get a refusal to issue or need to appeal BFI). I think I need to review the ipsea guide for the next bit.

Very jealous of a colleague I spoke to today who got it all issued without having to appeal anything. Miracle!

That happened to a colleague of mine too (different LA). Sounded like her case worker was an absolute diamond though.

@MinnieTruck the LA agreed to assess DS2 (surprisingly) but refused to issue (unsurprisingly, especially because they informed us shortly after DS3’s successful appeal).

@Macramepotholder it is always helpful to have excellent reports. However, when you look at things practically, having independent assessments now may not be as helpful as having them later. A) anyone good will have a waiting list. B) if the assessments are done now there’s no guarantee the LA will take notice of them even though they should and if you have to appeal further down the line, they may be considered old and they are expensive so you may want to target your money.

@Mummytodo in theory, you should send it as soon as it is available. There are pros and cons of that, though. If it looks like the LA is going to concede, then sending evidence now can speed that up. However, sometimes LAs use the parent’s case to strengthen their own case with counter evidence to the points parents/the evidence raise. Disclosing earlier than you have to gives them more time to do this if you think they are going to play games.

@BrumToTheRescue thank you. I think I have a very strong case. I am waiting for a witness statement from school advising all the things they do for my daughter and cannot meet need due to environment and the extent of support required I think I will send as soon as I have that document

Oh yes @BrumToTheRescue that’s right. Let’s hope that the LA do what they should have done in the first place and issue DS2 a plan once the appeal is over

Hi all, any tips on submitting a subject access request before we take that step. Been waiting 3 months to see the panels' decision on their reasoning thay our son should remain in mainstream, thank you.

Go onto the ICO website; they have a standard letter you can customise. Prepare for incomplete disclosure.

@Bendattheknees request all data rather than just the panel's decision (which may not actually be a panel). As well as a subject access request to the LA, submit one to the school. It is a good (but not 100%) way of checking you have all data. Communication between the LA and school should be disclosed in both. If it isn’t, you know you don’t have everything.

When you receive the data, set aside time to go through the information when you don’t have to rush off anywhere because reading it can sometimes be hard.

Are you appealing?