EHCP support thread no. 3

[Phineyj]

A new thread for when no. 2 is full up.
Link to thread no. 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
Link to thread no. 2:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

I am the mum of an 11 year old girl with SEN and have spent the last 20 months battling for my local authority to issue an EHCP to support her transition from primary to secondary school. We are currently after draft stage after two tribunals. I've had so much useful advice and moral support from posters on here.

This new thread is here to help everyone, whether you're just starting out or are a battle-hardened veteran of years of this.

There is no such thing as a stupid question and there are many acronyms and technical terms so please ask for an explanation of anything that you don't understand.

SEN: special educational needs (sometimes SEND: special educational needs and disability)
SENCO: teacher at school charged with overall responsibility for students on roll with SEN
ECHNA: education care and health needs assessment - the process of a local authority commissioning reports to find out a child's needs
EHCP: the education care and health plan that details a child's needs and the agreed provision to meet them; a legally binding document
SENDIST: the special educational needs and disability tribunal - an independent appeal panel which considers parental appeals against Education Authority decisions about special educational needs.

@UnendingSaga appeal is registered and date given in November, without bothering with mediation as our LA doesn't even bother to turn up sometimes... This is presumably the LA having read the appeal paperwork and now trying to find a way not to lose another tribunal case (cynical, moi?!).

Their reason for declining to assess was that they felt her needs could be managed by ordinarily available inclusive practice within the classroom. She already has more than that.....🤦 And their own autism specialists have said they don't know how to support her complex needs.....

In that case I'd probably go in just being really clear on what she needs that is over what is ordinarily available. Write it all out if that helps. And remembering that the test for assessing is really low so you will absolutely win that appeal. So don't let them try and fob you off with cycles of evidence or any of that bullshit.

@handmademitlove you need to show why DD meets the legal test i.e. that DD a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need special educational provision to be made via an EHCP. Anything else is irrelevant.

@BrumToTheRescue thank you so much, that's really helpful! I've called and emailed and still no amended EHCP naming a setting, apparently the school haven't responded to the consultation yet. The LA chased today and so have I.

Is it normal for schools to suggest amendments in F to ensure they can meet need? As that's what the school said they will need to do. I don't want to push back as then if they turn around and say they can't meet need, her current nursery can't keep her either and I have no specialist provision lined up.

I just ticked the box to say no setting has been named in I, but I didn't complete the sections saying which specific school/which type I wanted.

For Sep 2024, mainstream is my preference. For Sep 2025, I'm happy to try mainstream reception but will see how the first term of school nursery goes and see if I need to reassess.

Year 1 onwards (Sep 2026) I think DD would need a special school, but I still need to do my research, visit some and draw up a shortlist.

@Ponche it isn’t unusual for schools to request amendments. And it isn’t unusual for LAs to make amendments in order to fit provision to a school. However, provision in F should be based on what DD reasonably requires to meet the needs in B. Not on what the school can provide.

If you wanted to appeal section I you needed to complete the boxes about school/type of placement. Once your appeal has been registered, you will need to submit a SEND7.

Hi everyone,

I'm sorry to barge in on this thread! I'm going to have a good read to see if anyone has had the same situation as me and what they did...
Now I'm sorry if I get the wording wrong, but I hope you will all understand what I mean and what I am asking!

DD5, Autism + LD's.

We are at the assessment stage for the EHCP,, panel meet this thurs and 16 week decision deadline is on Friday.

I still haven't got the reports from the OT and SALT! They ignored the 12 week deadline and they're dragging their heels. We have the Ed Psyc report which is something ...

I've chased and chased. The SEN officer has emailed them, but I'm feeling increasingly axioms and (angry!) that they've not done it - or that the process is taking so long and cutting it so fine.

So my Q-

• do I request that we push back the panel date until we have the reports? - any idea if I can request this so close to the panel meeting / and if they say yes, how soon the next one will be?

• is there ANY POINT them going ahead with only one report ? (Ed Psyc ) ?

• I know it's going to have to be a tribunal situation but I just didn't want to waste more time ... when I completed to the SEN officer about missed deadlines etc she just linked me to PALS. Should I complain to them?

Please help I am panicking and feel so hopeless and as I said, angry!

@LAAAARGGHHH don’t delay, especially if you think you will have to appeal. If you are nearly at week 16, you should send the LA IPSEA’s model letter. If the LA is going to issue, they should have sent the draft by now. The LA must not delay legally. There’s no set ‘panel’ rules.

Alongside this, chase the reports. Both from the LA directly (they are ultimately responsible for ensuring advice and information is sought) and the SALT and OT directly (they must respond within 6 weeks).

@BrumToTheRescue Thank you for your reply. So you think, even without the reports in they know now whether they'll grant the EHCP or not?

I have already chased SLT and OT so much but nothing seems to be helping. They've already had weeks to do the reports.

I thought it made sense to delay because they only have a third of the 'evidence ' so to speak.

@LAAAARGGHHH personally I wouldn’t delay. The LA shouldn’t legally anyway, but you will be play into their hands and they will see stringing things along works with you. Give the LA an inch and they will take a mile.

When you chased SALT and OT, did you specifically remind them of their duty under Reg 8 of the SEN Regs 2014? If not, it is worth doing that. Same for reminding the LA they are ultimately responsible for the EHCNA process.

If the LA is going to issue, it is likely they will do so whether they have (the probably vague and woolly and not comprehensive) SALT and OT reports. LAs often base a significant part of the decision on the EP report.

@BrumToTheRescue You have come to my rescue :)
Thank you.
I will let them proceed then, you make good points!
I have only chased SALT and OT via the phone and I haven't actually got through to anyone. It's all messages passed on and "maybe we will have the report by the end of the week" but you've had 6 weeks...! And "someone will call you back" never happens,

This is also what the SEN officer said when I asked her about it "If the LA agrees to issue an EHC Plan, the therapy reports will be incorporated into the draft EHC Plan. If however, the LA does not agree to issue an EHC Plan, this decision can be revisited once the therapy report arrive. "

What's the timeline for that? It's all so vague to me.

@LAAAARGGHHH you need to chase in writing. Going forward, follow any phone call or verbal conversation up with an email so you have a paper trail as evidence.

If the LA is going to issue, they must finalise by week 20. To do this, they should have sent a draft by week 14. If the LA is going to refuse to issue, they must do so by week 16. Although there are exceptions to this where it is impractical to do so because the LA requested advice from the setting DD attends when they are closed for 4+ weeks or in the week before they are closed for 4+ weeks or you/DD were away from the LA for 4+ weeks or affected by exceptional personal circumstances. They must still do so as soon as practicable, though.

There is no set timescale for the LA to revisit any decision if they initially refuse to issue. The LA does not have to revisit the decision. This is why it is important to appeal and not rely on the LA saying they will relook at the case.

Thank you very much

The EHCP for my grandson was about 8 weeks late.

When it finally materialised it did not have the adjustments added which the case worker had agreed to include before finalisation.

The case worker sent these adjustments my daughter wanted in writing to all involved with the EHCP.

When they weren't included in the final draft my daughter rang the case worker who said that she had 'forgot' to include them.

What do we do now?

The case worker said that we have to wait for the annual review.

@MyOtherCarIsAPorsche DD should appeal B&F.

To do that, DD needs to request a mediation certificate from the mediation company (details should be in the LA’s decision letter). She doesn’t have to actively partake in mediation, only consider it, so she can just request the certificate and then submit an appeal to SENDIST.

Provision in EHCPs is based on evidence, so DD will need to provide evidence the amendments are required. In order to do this, DD should consider if independent assessments are necessary. If DD is eligible for legal aid, it can fund independent assessments where necessary.

How can they get away with just ignoring the bloody deadline?!
I've had more excuses today and I'm really fed up :(

@BrumToTheRescue

The issue is that her son has epilepsy, along with global development delay and a few other things. They think the epilepsy is due to a lesion deep within the brain.

She (mum) suspects that he's been having drop seizures and the two adults in nursery have not noticed. We know this because he has never had a toilet accident since he was toilet trained more than 18 months ago (he can wet himself during/when coming around from a seizure) and his brother is in the same nursery (at the local primary) and he's telling us that his brother is having seizures and that he looks after him. He's in the same nursery next year while his older brother moves up to reception class. There is also a girl the same age as his brother who has been telling her mother about him being laid on the floor and staring and no one else helps him. There are many places within the nursery where a child cannot be seen. The mud kitchen is hidden behind a shed and the one adult on outside duty cannot possibly be in all three outside areas and have him in sight. This is where he tends to play all day - his clothes come home, heavy with caked mud every day and he has been changed because of 'accidents'. He does not have accidents outside of the nursery and they don't happen with every 'episode'.

We asked for him to be within sight of an adult during his placement which his caseworker thought was reasonable. Unfortunately she forgot to put this in the final document.

His seizures lately have taken his speech, so he has regressed in that way and they are not controlled by medication at the moment. He has momentary seizures and huge seizures - there's no pattern. Sometimes he stops breathing and goes blue. We asked for supervision/to be in sight of adult in case this happens at school. His health care plan also mentions SUDEP which we think the school are blasé about.

We have video evidence of his seizures and his consultant letters. Obviously, they (nursery) have noted his speech regression - also the speech and language therapy service is aware of this. Would that be enough evidence to appeal?

@MyOtherCarIsAPorsche this sounds they are not taking his health care needs seriously, which is actually bigger than the EHCP issue alone. You should not have to appeal to correct an error - I would be very clear that while you are planning to appeal, they should correct errors without the need to do so and copy the manager of the team in to that email.
As well as that, I would ask his epilepsy nurse (if they have one!) to reach out to the school to review his health care plan - it sounds like it is not sufficient for his medical needs. local to us, either the epilepsy nurse will liaise directly with the nursery / school or the school nursing team will be involved to develop the plan together. I would contact the school nursing team in the first instance to ask them for advice as the school are clearly not doing what they should.

@MyOtherCarIsAPorsche for the EHCP it sounds like the issue is a lack of evidence.

It isn’t enough for the speech and language therapy service to be aware of speech regression. Their report needs to state DGS’S needs. For each need there needs to be corresponding provision he reasonably requires to meet those needs and outcomes. The provision needs to be detailed, specified and quantified.

If DGS needs to be within sight of an adult for the whole time he is at nursery, DD will need evidence of that. Evidence of seizures on its own wouldn’t be enough. You need a professional to include the provision required. An ed psych could look at this. Evidence from the consultant (would need to say more than your average clinic letter) could form part of the picture of evidence.

Alongside the EHCP, DD could request a meeting with the nursery and someone from DGS’s medical team &/or school nursing team to improve his Individual Health Care Plan.

@LAAAARGGHHH send IPSEA’s model letter.

@BrumToTheRescue

Ah - his speech regression was recent. The reports were done February when he had not had any speech and language input (he was on the waiting list). They visited him in nursery for their report. They, more recently, visited him at home and were shocked by the regression.

But his most recent consultant (paediatric neurologist) report details the speech regression due to seizure.

The EHCP which will be in place for when he returns in September is based on out of date information and it will last until July 2025 when he will finish that class.

@MyOtherCarIsAPorsche detailing speech regression isn’t enough on its own. DD needs reports to cover needs, provision and outcomes. It needs to detail, specify and quantify provision.

If the advice was sought in February, the LA is well out of the timescales. In the future, if the LA does not stick to the timescales, DD should look at enforcing them. Starting with emailing the Director of Children’s Services threatening judicial review, moving on to a pre-action letter if that doesn’t work.

If DGS starts school in Sept 2025, the EHCP will be reviewed in the autumn term this year and amended naming the reception placement by 15th Feb 2025 at the latest.

DD could also request an early review, but the LA doesn’t have to agree and there’s no right of appeal if they refuse.

If DD hasn’t already, it is worth her reading IPSEA and SOSSEN’s websites in order to understand EHCPs and SEN law.

@BrumToTheRescue

Many thanks.

My daughter has ASD and doesn't deal well with forms.

I'll get some reading done.

They seemed to blame the school for being late with the EHCP because the school did not respond. When my daughter rang her caseworker at the LA she was told that they were waiting for the school to respond. 🤔

It was applied for first week in January this year. The school said that we were lucky to get one so soon. 🤔

My daughter wants her three children (all additional needs) to go to another school as she feels like the school only provide the least amount of resources they can get away with.

When she approached another school - they said that they couldn't meet the needs of her children. 🙄 They just didn't want to know.

She's upset that both schools do not want to be bothered with her children.

@MyOtherCarIsAPorsche if DD wants a different school she can appeal section I too. Did she state another school when given the chance during the EHCP process?

The provision detailed, specified and quantified in F must be provided and can be enforced. This is why B&F are important.

The LA is responsible for ensuring they comply with the EHCP timescales.

I've been trying to take a break from thinking about EHCPs so am now massively behind on this thread.

We're expecting the LA's response to our appeal of sections B&F by the end of the week. A solicitor who works for the LA emailed me today to confirm that I'm the contact person for the appeal. Is this standard practice? My details haven't changed in the entire time we've been dealing with the LA and there was no similar check when we appealed refusals to assess.

I spoke to SENDIASS recently about some of our concerns around the language in B&F being adequately detailed, specified and quantified and they were of the opinion that we don't need to appeal because secondary schools need some flexibility in who can deliver the provision. Ie, I shouldn't worry that the Plan says things like:

DC will receive individual support to work through a bank of social scenarios, ie, 'if this happens, I can do this...' - delivered by 'school staff' weekly for 15-20 minutes.

DC will have use of a visual timer when engaging in independent tasks to support their understanding of time and expectations delivered daily across the school day by 'school staff'

But looking at the Plans again after a few weeks, a lot feels very woolly, despite what SENDIASS said. I think we do need to make the Plans as watertight as possible, as SENCos can change, etc. I guess I should start comparing against the original reports again to see where I can suggest making it more detailed, specified and quantified.

@BrumToTheRescue

Yes - she specified a school she wanted and they refused. They told the LA that they are in a budget deficit and don't have the staff in the nursery to accommodate him. (There are only two adults in his current nursery class.) They also said that there are single steps up and down into rooms in the nursery so it would unsafe for him to navigate his way around (he does not have mobility issues) they listed quite a few excuses. When challenged by the LA they said that they were now full.

He's 4 in November and his mum is worn down with battling for help in order to meet his needs.

She was put on antidepressants earlier this year as she didn't want to go on. She's very black and white - no shades of grey. Things are either great or catastrophic.

He's at the hospital right now - seizure lasted more than 30 mins. A paramedic attended before the ambulance got to him. He was blue when they got to him.