sleep is for the weak...i am weak.

[WoodlandFaerie]

Could do with a bit more.

ds's (almost 7m) sleep is all over the place at night, waking anywhere from 3-who knows how many times a night. i have given up counting.

He is bf. But we have introduced a bottle at 7pm, plus bf top up. He does feed when he wakes, he is not just suckling. If for example i gave him a bottle at 4am i am certain he would drink it.

i have tried cutting one of the night feeds out, but to be honest don't know where to start. he has no real pattern after 10:30pm, til 6:15am when he wakes, apart from today when he woke at 4am. He had a dirty nappy so after changing he was wide awake and happy, but clearly tired. After a drive and a sleep for 15 mins he woke and is now awake for the period now so it seems (talking to baby tv and eating my glasses).

He used to wake about 3 times at night, on the odd occasion more, and now it is more, and on the odd occasion less.

He can sleep longer, he has had the odd night of 5-6 hours, and one magical night of 7 (alas i did not sleep then!).

I just do not really know where to start, he has no set pattern as I have said, so don't know what to stop.

I am probably rambling. I am dog tired.

anyone?

I have a camping trip to celebrate father's day and the summer solstice, at least there is a chance i will be up to see it

Poor you, you sound knackered.

Is your DS getting enough to eat during the day? I think that frequent nightfeeding by six months is a sign that they're hungry because they aren't getting enough during daylight hours. How's weaning going?

I feel for you! My DD1 is nearly 6yrs old and still doesnt sleep through the night!!

I would suggest moving the bottle to around 10.30-11pm (dream feed if asleep) as I think it will fill him up more at that time of night.

I really dont have any answers though im afraid.... our routine at that age would be

Bath
Bottle
Bed by 7pm

and then dream feed between 10.30-11pm and DD1 would usually wake around 2am and 6am for another bottle.

It is knackering and such hard work, and I too have been subjected to Baby TV with DS this morning (5.30am zzzzzz) but it will get better as he gets older. Even DD1 who still wakes in the night just needs us to say "love you, back to sleep" and thats her!

Also, as another thought..... what time is his tea time and bed time?

We found that all 3 of ours have needed something to eat (solid) just before bed.

DD1 used to have a weetabix, DD2 would have a slice of toast and DS will often have a sandwich. It fills them to the gulls!

ttalloo he is a very hungry boy. He has 3 meals a day. We started weaning at 5 months as he has always been very very hungry. He refused a bottle til recently, so was bf'ing 2 hourly a lot of the time.

He is eating a mixture of finger food (vegetables, scrambled egg, pasta) and mushed (not really puree, he has never been bothered about lumps as long as he can eat it!). We have just introduced him to fish which he loves, as I had heard that sleep can improve when protein is increased. So far, no change, but only 2 days of that.

We have started a bottle mid morning for him, as I am going back to work soon and that feed will be awkward to give him, I can work the rest around my hours/be released to feed him. My DD took the bottle around this time and went off bm, only wanted bottle. You don't think this will happen here do you? could the bottle/weaning have messed up my milk supply?

danJAR thank you, I will try to offer the bottle at 10:30pm. He had not taken it then before, but has only been having the bottle for a week, and did not want it for his dream feed. Now he has got used to it (and seems to love it) and now I realise he was fussing as it was just not hot enough (he likes it hot not warm) he may well take it now at that time.

The evening goes something like this, but it is not strict really (DH refuses absolutey refuses to do strict military bedtimes).

5-6pm tea (a pot of say butternut squash and pasta, yoghurt)

6:30pm, start bedtime routine with both children (have a almost 4yo too), wash/bath, teeth clean (DD) nappy change, pjs and sleeping bag on.

7;00pm stories and bottle, sometimes he falls asleep now.

7:30pm - DD up to bed, DS with me in bed topping up, even if he falls asleep with bottle he will wake again around this time, needing more.

8:30pm - a pat and cuddle back to sleep.

10:30pm-11pm feed.

then it goes to shit.

Hmm. Am not the best person to ask about bf as I was doing mixed feeds with mine, and gladly gave up bf as soon as I started weaning DS1.

But I second DJMouse's idea of giving your DS some weetabix (or porridge perhaps?) just before bedtime to keep him going a bit longer without waking. Or a banana - apparently they are great for promoting sleep (according to my mother, who swears by them )

How long have these increased night-feeds being going on?

problem with the dream feed at 10:30pm or so, I often now go to bed with DS to try to get some sleep, and eventually drift off by 9pm, then he wakes on his own at 10:30pm. So, i will need to get the alarm set for 10pm so I can get the bottle ready and then feed him at 10:30pm.

Its a vicious circle isn't it?

the increased ones, the ones that seem to be hourly some nights...about 2 weeks on and off? I had thought teething, as he is dribbling like mad. But, on the nights when I think teething and give him something, it does not really help.

I shall try the banana, I have heard that too about it promoting sleep, and he does love banana.

It could well be teething - even if he's not in agony, the movement under the gums as his teeth are preparing to come through could be waking him up and making him uncomfortable, and sucking on something makes him feel better.

Can your DH not give him the 10.30 bottle so that you can sleep through until the feed after that? It's awful that you get a scant hour's sleep before you have to get up again.

DH is happy to give the bottle to him, but I am such a light sleeper and I wake at the slightest noise so as soon as DS stirs I am awake, then DH faffs and fusses so by the time he is up, fed, and back down again I am likely wide awake! But we could give it a go and see if I can go back to sleep easily (right now, am sure I can!).

I had been thinking the comfort suckling, but often, more often than not, he is actually drinking milk. I also worry that I have started inadvertently the pattern of him needing to suckle himself back to sleep.

Thanks for all the great suggestions, it is good to hear it from others as my brain has some ideas but not really able to make much sense of it all atm.

How's his napping? Not enough naps, not long enough or finishing the last nap too late etc. etc. can all impact on overnight sleep.

Also, it might be worth moving his bedtime back a tad to 18.30 - sounds counter-logical, but can have surprising results.

A couple of thoughts FWIW anyway!

immaculateconception his naps are not great. He is not a long napper, probably 45 mins morning, same in the afternoon, unless in the car driving then longer.

Last night was terrible, we were camping, bedtime routine the same, he woke hourly, after DD woke him at godknows what time, but before that, his sleep pattern til 10:30pm was the same.

He is also off his food tpday and chewing like mad on everything, also pulling while on the boob, or biting, so I am wondering if it is his teeth right now. Or, a growth spurt? DD used to guzzle milk and stop eating for a day or so, then grow a huge amount, then back to normal, wonder if he is doing the same?

Woodlandfaerie, your post describes my dd who is six months next week... Your "then it goes to shit line" cracked me up, I had to show it to DP, this is exactly how it is for us at the mo, last night she had me up hourly after 11.00pm, it's nearly killing me!
She has only been on solids for two weeks though, so not really established yet. My little one is BF too and I am worried that with all his night waking she has now become acustomed to needing the boobie to settle back off, I wish I wasn't so knackered!

Oh and I think she is teething, dribbling like mad, already one though two weeks ago....

lola sorry to hear it is hard for you too. I hope we both find some solutions very soon.

DD is also very tired, she is an early bird, getting up far to early these days despite very expensive blackout velux blinds being put in her bedroom, and despite getting her a sleep training clock and she is knackered by 5pm. So, we have decided to bring her bedtime forward too.

Last night the routine went like this:

5:30pm - tea and pudding.

6:00pm bath for both of them (sink bath for DS!)

6:45pm story for both, while DS has a bottle of milk (DH forgot and had already started to give it to him)

7pm - DD off to bed, asleep instantly! DS asleep on DH, so quick feed on boob then in to bed.

**perfect, I hear you say...

7:15pm - DS wakes for more boob. Settles at 7:30pm.

8:00pm - wakes, won't settle until he has more milk. Back to sleep for the duration

10:30pm - wakes for milk. Had decided not to give him bottle as he had it earlier, so gave him boob but not very much of it.Then DH walks in at 11pm with a bottle all ready! So, dream fee him that too! (probably should not have).

1:45am - wakes, feeds a lot. When I say wake, he cries, i leave him for a short while to see if really wanting me or will settle, then he sleeps as soon as he has boob, but feeds while sleeping.

4am - feeds a lot.

5:15am - up, feeds but not too much, plays, awake, has the most almighty poop up the back, out the sides (has had lots of these lately). Back in cot playing nicely but noisily.

5:40am - 'mama? is that you? are you awake?' says a little voice from her stairs (she has her own stairs!). Her sleep training clock had changed to morning, she insisted she had not changed it herself but it has done this a few times.

[MNHQ can we please have a 'very very tired' emoticon?}

and now I have a DD and a DS who want their breakfast, so the routine is all out of kilter. Think it is best to stick with normal routine and just give ds some milk to keep him going.

Oh WF you have it way harder than me, I'm not sure how I would cope with a six month old baby waking at all times of the night and another little one!!! Dashing off at the min, but just wanted to quickly say have you tried Tesco's superfit nappies? Not much less expensive unfortunately but we switched from Pampers because of many poops up the back episodes to tesco's and haven't lloked back. They come alot higher up the back, so seem to contain it all a bit better! Also can you lock that clock? My sister can lock her to stop little fingers from fiddling with it! Hope you are ok today!

lloke= looked!!!

Oh an her should be "hers", I can't type today!

My eyes feel sunken, like they have been pulled out and let go of, snapped back in. I have a headache, and DH is listening to the effing footie with those effing vuvu wotsits.

And the kids are not settling [aaaaaaaargh] am I EVER going to sleep again?

Come on ladies, draw up your chairs, grab some matchsticks for your eyes and lets prop each other up yeah? I think I am now officially re-starting the engines on the 'sleep is for the weak' ship

My routine today was:

5:15am start with milk (bm)

6:30am, milk, nap for 15 mins?

breakfast at 7am (ds had one boiled egg, pot of porridge)

8:15am - milk (bm), sleep, into car seat, drive to drop DD off at nursery, sleep all the way there, while I natter with carer, back home.

9:30am - wakes after around 1 hours nap.

10:30am - bottle of formula, around 4oz drank. Happy and awake.

11am - nap in the car. around 45 mins - 1 hour in total, with a little squawk for 1 min when the car stopped for 10 mins so DH could pop into a shop.

1pm - lunch (sweet potato chunks, pot of farleys rusk [lazy mummy emoticon] and a spoon of lentil mush i had made for the freezer]

3pm - milk (a little bm), doze. wake from doze after 10 mins, happy.

4pm, wants more milk (sleep) then into carseat to go to get DD. Stuck in traffic so in car for 45 mins in total until DD wakes him with a 'HELLLLLOOOOO LITTLE MAAN!' and a squidge!

5:15pm tea for both children (lentils, sweet potatoes) All lovely, calm, happy.

6:00pm bath and clean DS, ready for bed, sleeping bag etc, then DD.

6:30pm supper for both children (ready brek) DS gulped it down, copying his sister!

6:45pm - stories, milk, not interested as DD is making him laugh. She goes to bed at 7pm, refuses, cries, comes down, cant sleep, needs a poo etc etc (where does she find the energy? awake for 14 hours?!) DS feeds, feeds, feeds, falls asleep on boob by 7:15pm.

7:45 - wakes for more milk. DD has finally collapsed asleep.

8pm - finally, finally both children are asleep.

and now, despite having a desperate need to sleep, i have things to do

I shall continue to write it down anyway.

8pm sleep.

10:30pm dream feed 4.5oz.

2:15am awake, feed immediately

3:15am awake, settle without boob, takes 10-15 mins?

4:30am awake, feed sleep immediately

5:30am awake feed, sleep on boob refuse to be taken off, attempt to take off and settle without boob after 20 mins. Awake for the morning.

7am or so, eats a ton of porridge for breakfast.

9:05am finally goes to sleep with milk after suckling for a while, waking for a bit of my toast! DH had tried settling before this without me, no good.

Not enough sleep. DD slept just like this in the day.

Please keep writing it down. I also have a DS where it all goes to shit past midnight but I can't quite stomach writing it down. Too depressing. Not helped by a usually very supportive DH who has read various things about babies not needing night feeds past a certain weight/ age and wants us to settle without feeding. Making bugger all difference tbh, and just takes much much longer, meaning even less sleep. My DS doesn't cry when he wakes just grumbles and fidgets for an age. Again, DH just wants to leave him unless he cries but he can sleep through it, and I have to listen to the widgeting, knowing that DS isn't going back to sleep and will eventually cry. Sorry- that turned into a bit of a rant and wasn't terribly helpful.

How old is your ds?

DH is the same, 'let him cry' (with his ipod stereo on audiobook through the night so he cant hear a thing) 'put him to bed later' (despite me telling him endless times that it is in fact counter productive to do so) etc etc. I simply cannot let him cry, it is not good for him, it is not good for me. But, feeding him is not the answer either.

I also don't agree that all babies can and should sleep through the night by this age, some do, some don't. But, i certainly think one or two night wakings is a reasonable expectation to aim for.

Have you read any of the books such as no-cry sleep solution etc? I have read it, but it suggests sorting the day naps, with suggestion that anything less than an hour does not count, and that any techniqie to get him to sleep other than crying is fine. But the only thing that works is permanently on the boob and I just cannot do that as 1) i have DD to look after too and 2) I am returning to work soon so need to find something that will work without me sometimes (only for the mornings luckily).

That is another thing, how on earth am I going to manage working while sleeping so little i am rather worried about that tbh.