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Nap training - it's breaking my heart... does it work?

139 replies

themothership · 11/08/2005 17:47

Hello
I've started nap training my 12 week old dd today after an awful week of sitting with her in a dark room for hours and hours trying to get her to sleep and basically not having any life. She's not bad at night - just really struggles with her daytime naps, and is very alert and finds it hard to switch off.
She's on a 3 hour EASY routine, ala the Baby Whisperer. Today I've bee putting her down for her naps awake, rather than jiggling her to sleep which is what I've always had to do. She's cried and cried and I've popped up to see her every 5 minutes, but she's settled within 20 minutes. However, for every nap today she's woken after 40 minutes and then won't settle at all and has just been working herself into a screaming frenzy. I'm trying not to pick her up but it's horrible and I feel like I'm torturing her. I don't know if I can carry on but I know that she needs to learn to nap without me.
Please help - especially re the 40 minute nap thing. I just feel like I'm a cruel and awful mother.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
themothership · 11/08/2005 21:21

Yep, has a dummy. Will calm her, but not enough to get her to settle her without me holding her etc.

OP posts:
themothership · 11/08/2005 21:33

Hermykne, meant to ask - do you think we should keep on trying dd in the swing then? We ended up packing it away because she didn't seem to like it and it certainly didn't seem to calm her (she seemed to get more stimulated) but that was a few weeks ago and I don't know if she'd be more likely to take to it.

BTW I wish it was true about the other mums with docile babies, but unless they're just trying to save face, their babies seem to sleep through the night really well etc. It does feel like there's some sort of social taboo (well certainly with some of the mums I've met) in admitting that you're finding it hard and that you're not getting any time for yourself. I guess I've been made to feel that it's my fault for being too soft, and that the norm is to be able to carry on with life as normal.

Which is why I'm very thankful for mumsnet!

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Feffi · 11/08/2005 21:33

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miabl2 · 11/08/2005 21:40

I know I'm going to get slated here but I totally disagree, babies love routine and hate being put in charge. Gina Ford (oh no I hear you cry) two of us out of 6 in a breastfeeding group went with Gina Ford the others laughed at us and said you couldn't put babies in a routine cause they're too little. 6 months down the line the other two have bought the book and within two weeks have turned their babies around to sleeping through the night and going down for naps. It can't be a coincidence that two completely different babies do exactly the same things at the same time. I'll put my head back down now ready for the onslaught......

morningpaper · 11/08/2005 21:43

I agree that babies love routine.

They don't love being left alone screaming though.

lockets · 11/08/2005 21:43

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morningpaper · 11/08/2005 21:45

My baby was never REMOTELY interested in reading Gine Ford.

miabl2 · 11/08/2005 21:46

I've never left my baby screaming. Don't know why people always say that about Gina Ford. Don't think she even mentions doing this in her book. It's about doing things at roughly the same time every day so that the baby knows what to expect. If a nap goes wrong forget about it and move on, but the next day it'll probably go right. It just gives you an idea of when to feed and when to put them down for a nap, before they even know they want one...

lockets · 11/08/2005 21:47

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lockets · 11/08/2005 21:48

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miabl2 · 11/08/2005 21:48

I'm the one who's baby has been sleeping like a log since 7pm....

lockets · 11/08/2005 21:49

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miabl2 · 11/08/2005 21:49

No but I'm sure there are lots of people like me who haven't got a clue where to start and whilst some babies do find their own routine a lot of them don't....

miabl2 · 11/08/2005 22:04

Anyway, it was only a suggestion.

lockets · 11/08/2005 22:07

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JennyWren · 11/08/2005 22:14

Hi themothership.

My dd is 9.5 weeks, and like you I based our day on the Baby Whisperer principles. I don't believe in leaving a tiny baby like ours to cry themselves to sleep, as I don't believe they understand. I tried the pickup put down method advocated by the baby whisperer though, and it really doesn't work with my dd - it seems to upset her more. Instead, I swaddle my dd, with her arms bent so that her hands are at the top by her chin - the idea being to stop her flailing around, but when she's relaxed she can work them out of the wrapping, as she prefers to sleep like that. I cuddle her until she is calm but even if she is still wide awake, I put her down in the cot and put my hand on her chest for a few seconds, whisper "sleepytime, dd", give her a dummy. The same routine every nap and bedtime. She sucks - sometimes for a few minutes, sometimes for much longer, then spits it out and goes to sleep. I try not to keep going in and checking on her, but I do occasionally - sometimes she goes to sleep relatively quickly, sometimes it can take half an hour or more. I figure that a rest - calm, no outside stimulation, in a quiet atmosphere - is as good as a sleep. If she wakes early and cries, or wakes in the night (she doesn't feed overnight anymore, apart from her 11pm dreamfeed), I put my hand on her chest, whisper "sleepytime, dd" and give her back the dummy, and leave the room. Overnight, if she keeps spitting the dummy out and crying, I would consider that she may have a growth spurt, then I let her feed, but try to get her to drink more the next day so she should go back to sleeping overnight. That strategy has worked so far. Do you think that would work with your little one? I think that for some babies, too much 'comforting' actually has the opposite effect, and they just need calm and quiet.

The other thing I did was to check how much daytime sleep dd actually needs, and see what pattern worked best for her. When she was younger, the 3 hour cycle was perfect, but all of a sudden dd stopped sleeping so well - for us, it was that she wasn't settling in the evening. I realised that she was still getting the same amount of sleep as she had been for weeks, but now just wasn't tired in the evening. I cut down her 1st and 3rd naptimes to a maximum of 1 hour each, and now she is back to settling at 7-7.30pm and sleeping through to 7-7.30am. She now has a nap of 1 hour max at about 9am, 2.5hours at about 12pm, and an hour at 4.30pm. The middle one is the vital one for dd - if that gets messed up, she has to sleep longer later in the day, then go to bed later. Dd currently seems not to need the full hour in the morning every day - I think she is going to drop that one fairly soon, and bring the lunchtime one forward.
I have waffled - I'm sorry. I'm just trying to offer another idea to help your dd to rest, and to reassure you that 40 minutes isn't necessarily a problem. The baby whisperer technique is good in theory, but not all babies need 3x 1.5 hour naps - 4.5 hours in a day may well be too much for a 3 month old who sleeps well at night (Gina Ford suggests 3 hours total daytime naps at that point). Maybe if she has a couple of shorter naps, she might settle for one longer nap to go with them? How long can your dd be awake happily? For my dd its about 2 hours, so she has a 3-3.25 hour cycle, followed by a 4.5 hour cycle, followed by a 3 hour cycle - don't beat yourself up if you don't go exactly with a 3 hour cycle every time. If you look at the babywhisperer website BabyWhisperer they suggest some routines for babies at different ages - the cycle could be 4 hours by 3 months, according to that (see the 'info' bits at the start of the EASY message board). If nothing else, you might be able to ask for some help from other people who use the Baby Whisperer technique.

Hope some of this helps - sorry to have waffled so much!

JennyWren · 11/08/2005 22:22

I've just re-read the thread - it has taken me so long to write that message in between doing other things, that loads of new messages have appeared! You mention that your dd flails her arms about - that sounds just like my dd when she is overtired, if she doesn't settle for a nap on the odd occasion. Swadding definitely may help - have you tried it. It won't necessarily get her to sleep in itself, but it should help to calm her if she can't flail about, and may stop her waking herself up after 40 minutes when she comes into a light sleep, by preventing her from jerking her arms and waking up with the jolt.
Just a thought - hope it helps.

hermykne · 11/08/2005 22:31

mother
yes reintroduce the swing, and maybe do it as a wee game. do you walk with her in the buggy?

i know that feeling you have re social taboo and wonderful babies - its out there alright but i really donot belive them, in my part ofthe world a grapevine exists that the truth eventually reches me!

after u got over the colic, was she as she i now? has her behaviour changed since then?

dont be afraid to let her sit in her seat whilst you are in her view, talking to her, singing maybe she just has to adjust to the 2 of u being separate.

you know the patterns will change all the time
my bil had the perfect bay til 6mth but now its gone a bit haywire for them, so dont stress over getting it "right"

and mothership, the natural "downness" can staywith oyu for quite awhile so do chat to someone about that too.

rickshaw · 12/08/2005 10:57

Hi mothership, my heart totally goes out to you as I'm exactly where you are right now (you've probably seen that I'm the one who resurrected Tipex's thread). I really don't have any solutions as, like you, I have tried everything and nothing is working but I just wanted to say that you are NOT ALONE. Also, I live in London too so I'll try to e-mail you (I think there's a way of doing this "off-line" so I'll have a go in a moment) and we can always meet up with our screaming babies...
Keep posting and let us know how you are. You need all the support you can get.

rickshaw · 12/08/2005 11:02

Mothership, I think I've just managed to forward my e-mail address to you....

CheekyGirl · 12/08/2005 11:13

Hi, themothership!

I have been reading your posts with so much sympathy as your dd sounds very much like my ds who is now 7mths. He still wakes up several times a night, but his daytime naps have spontaneously lengthened to 1hr plus from about 30mins.

During his 'awkward phase', I allowed half an hour of rocking or whatever in a darkened room to get him to sleep/back to sleep. If no luck after that, i forced myself to give in, and take him back downstairs. I also have a 4yr old dd to consider, so that was a factor in deciding the 'half hour rule'!

I found tight swaddling, a dummy and quite fast vigorous rocking worked best to get him to sleep.

It seems to me that with these sort of 'high need' babies, trying to get them to do something they really don't want to do is fruitless, and just causes heartache and stress for both of you.

Try asking your health visitor to put you in touch with another mother of a 'high need' baby - mine did this when i had my dd, and we are still great friends four years later!

Good luck!

CheekyGirl · 12/08/2005 11:14

Hi, themothership!

I have been reading your posts with so much sympathy as your dd sounds very much like my ds who is now 7mths. He still wakes up several times a night, but his daytime naps have spontaneously lengthened to 1hr plus from about 30mins.

During his 'awkward phase', I allowed half an hour of rocking or whatever in a darkened room to get him to sleep/back to sleep. If no luck after that, i forced myself to give in, and take him back downstairs. I also have a 4yr old dd to consider, so that was a factor in deciding the 'half hour rule'!

I found tight swaddling, a dummy and quite fast vigorous rocking worked best to get him to sleep.

It seems to me that with these sort of 'high need' babies, trying to get them to do something they really don't want to do is fruitless, and just causes heartache and stress for both of you.

Try asking your health visitor to put you in touch with another mother of a 'high need' baby - mine did this when i had my dd, and we are still great friends four years later!

Good luck!

themothership · 12/08/2005 12:28

Afternoon everyone, thanks for all your messages of support. Have abandoned the nap training and have been trying to go with my dd today but it still doesn't seem to be resolving the problem. She woke up at 6:30am today, and napped from 7:40 - 9:00 am (with me cuddling her) but then was tired again at 10:00am. I swaddled her and put on the white noise and she fell asleep in my arms within 3 minutes, so I put her down in her moses basket and managed to have a shower. She then woke up after her 40 minute sleep cycle, and I got her to doze for another 20 minutes on my chest but then she was awake and fussing. I got her up and fed her but she only wanted 5 minutes, and started showing tired signs again within 30 minutes of being up...She's just gone to sleep again, after only being up for half an hour, and fell asleep instantly, but spent all the time she was awake being grouchy - too grouchy to play or do anything... This is what it's been like in the past when I've not tried to follow any routine at all - she'll stay awake for a bit, but be thoroughly miserable and not want to play, so it still seems like the issue is to get her to have longer naps. Even when I have managed to get her to sleep for 2 hours at a time during the day, she can still only stay awake for 1 hr - 1 hr 15 min before
she gets really tired again.

I just want her to be happy and to enjoy being awake! I'm worried too that if she's too tired to play at all, that it'll affect her development. By playing, I mean just looking at her mobile, or talking and singing with me, or massage rather than anything really stimulating, but she even seems to knackered for those.

Hi Jennywren - I've been basically trying a version of what you've suggested - it'll sometimes work when I first put her down for a nap, but not when she wakes up after 1st sleep cycle., Then she doesn't seem to settle until I pick her up (will start crying within a minute of me putting her down, even if I'm standing there with my hand on her chest, shushing and stroking her forehead down between her eyes). I'll carry on trying - have been a bit I read that PU/PD was too stimulating for babies under 4 months, so haven't done that.

Rickshaw - would love to meet up, have been reading your posts on Tipex's old thread, and my sympathies go to you too. Haven't received your email address yet but as I write this, I'm not yet logged in so that might be why.

Cheekygirl - thanks for your advice. My HV is a bit crap - she's told me that if dd doesn't want to nap, then let her stay awake, and I'm like 'she does want to nap, she just doesn't know how'. And then HV said that she thought the problem was me (because I ended up crying) rather than dd and sent round some colleagues who started asking me whether I 'liked' my dd etc. (Hope I don't need to convince anyone that I love her to bits, and seeing her struggle so much and be so miserable is what's getting me so down).

OP posts:
MarsLady · 12/08/2005 13:32

hi tms

my DTs were born small (4lbs 5 and 5lbs 14)and for the first few months didn't settle at all. I just went with the clean bum, no obvious signs of pain so I'll feed school of thought.

It lasted about 3-4 months and then just as suddenly was over.

My routine was this:

open my eyes, again, feed babies
put babies to bed
they would wake, I would check nappies then I would feed if they wouldn't let me put them down.
bath feed bed at night

I just went with the babes really. Now they are lovely and in routine. Milk at 11.30, 2 hour sleep. Due to wake any minute actually.

don't worry about TBW routines... find one that suits you and babe.

hth

rickshaw · 12/08/2005 14:18

Hi mothership. Let me know if you still haven't received my e-mail address. Or try sending me yours. I know what you mean about the HV's. If another HV tells me that babies will just fall asleep when they are tired I'm surely going to thump her.