Nap training - it's breaking my heart... does it work?

[themothership]

Hello
I've started nap training my 12 week old dd today after an awful week of sitting with her in a dark room for hours and hours trying to get her to sleep and basically not having any life. She's not bad at night - just really struggles with her daytime naps, and is very alert and finds it hard to switch off.
She's on a 3 hour EASY routine, ala the Baby Whisperer. Today I've bee putting her down for her naps awake, rather than jiggling her to sleep which is what I've always had to do. She's cried and cried and I've popped up to see her every 5 minutes, but she's settled within 20 minutes. However, for every nap today she's woken after 40 minutes and then won't settle at all and has just been working herself into a screaming frenzy. I'm trying not to pick her up but it's horrible and I feel like I'm torturing her. I don't know if I can carry on but I know that she needs to learn to nap without me.
Please help - especially re the 40 minute nap thing. I just feel like I'm a cruel and awful mother.

Yes, she might just be cry-y atm. My 6month dd rarely sleeps more than 40minutes or an hour and my son only started sleeping for two hours regularly (at lunchtime) after eight months. I do realise babies can get overtired, but do you feed her when she's yowling? I find my dd doesn't really go to sleep without a very full tummy and then either feeds to sleep or I take her out in the pushchair. She can get to sleep on her own if someone else does it (!) but always has a short yowl first. I couldn't stand to do what you are doing - not because you are 'cruel and awful' - which you are clearly not - but because it sounds so stressful for you.
I think the babywhisperer has a lot to answer for. I've said it before and I'll say it again, that woman left her own kids in the UK when she went to the US to look after other people's children, and I found her book drove me quite, quite barmy.

could it be colic?

Will she sit in a bouncy chair and look at a gym? Will she nod off when you rock the chair with your foot? Have you got a rocking chair? Darkened rooms are not the only place to sleep - she needs to learn to sleep when tired wherever she is I would have thought. Have you got help? She would be easier to deal with if someone could take her and give you a break for a couple of hours rather than you trying to get her to do something that she won't give in to.

She does sound a bit of a tricky one - maybe try to feed before she gets quite so worked up?
How long does she cry for if you take her for a walk?

No, she did have colic, but thankfully grew out of it at about 8 weeks. It really does seem to be that she's tired but won't sleep without me holding her.

Yep have a rocking chair. She'll happily sit in it when she's not tired and have a good look around but will start crying as soon as she's tired and will want to be lifted out. I even bought a baby swing - again, she'd sit in it when not tired and get all excited ('ooh look at everything going fast!') but then start crying when tired. My friend's baby fell asleep in it then minute we put him in it, but my dd just doesn't seem to be like other babies.

I've also tried taking her out once I've got her to fall asleep in the sling (after sitting in dark room again) but she'll literally wake up the minute I step out the front door and then not go back to sleep. I'll be on the bus and that'll keep her distracted for a while but then she'll start crying because she can't get back to sleep. I've now stopped trying to leave the area I live in, as I can only go out when she's awake and not near a nap time, which means a 0.5 mile radius.

Hi Tipex, I have been reading your thread, and it has been reassuring to know that it's not just me. How old was your ds when he became more settled?

Everyone - thanks loads for your posts. I hope I haven't come across as being ungrateful for your advice but it just feels like I've tried everything already apart from the nap training, so I thought that maybe I ought to give it a go. To be honest, I don't like the principle of 'managing' your baby at all and it doesn't fit in with what I believe in. I love having her close to me, co-sleeping with her, and cuddling her, and don't at all prescribe to the philosophy that you should train babies to fit around your schedule. But I'm at a loss as to what to do, because at the moment I barely have time to eat or do anything for myself.

tms - sorry if we seem to be bombarding you with suggestions but have you tried baby massage? found it really helpful for calming my (crotchety) baby...
agree with mears 100%, and many others here. She needs to find her own routine (with your help) not try to fix her with someone else's, someone who's never me her. and I think 12 weeks is too young for controlled crying IMO.
sorry you're having such a difficult time, hope it gets better soon
HCxx

Have you tried the BabyBjorn with her facing IN to your chest and not OUT? If she cranes her neck around, she can't do that for long before becoming totally knackered? How long would she scream for in a sling?

I agree with the others that 12 weeks is too young for sleep training. My daughter would never sleep for longer than 40 minutes during the day at this age, and often she would have no sleep at all during the day.

By the way, do you have a door swing/bouncer? If she is strong you could put her in this for 15 minutes or so and get a little time to yourself to clean up (while in her eyeline) etc.

I think that if you are doing anything that is 'breaking your heart' then you need to question whether it's the right thing for you. Good luck.

morningpaper's post has reminded me - we also used a Graco swing (battery operated) which she loved and would either send her to sleep or we would at least get a few minutes to do other stuff.

My babies napped in the Wilkinet (carrier). Some of them didn't mind being put down, but when they did I carried them and it was lovely.

I don't believe in forcing routines either. I suspect this will be a contraversial view though. Babies have no idea how long they're 'supposed' to nap for or when they're allowed to wake up.

One other thought - I might have this wrong but are you only feeding her once every 3 hours? If so, this is unlikely to be enough and she may well be hungry. Do you put her to the breast when she cries? How does she respond? (Apologies if you've answered that already?)

And one final thought ... at this age it is quite normal to get no time to yourself. When my daughter was happy in the baby bouncer (at 3 months) for 15 minutes at a time and I got to do the washing up, I couldn't believe how exciting my new-found 15-minute-washing-up freedom was.

I found it very helpful to join a breastfeeding support group because there were lots of women there in exactly the same position with babies who screamed all the time unless they were being carried, and it really helped me to be with people who were also in the thick of it and who understood where I was coming from.

Harpsichordcarrier - have been doing baby massage for the last couple of weeks but unfortunately these last few days, because she's been more tired than usual, she won't let me massage her (starts crying). Have only managed one leg at a time this week. But will carry on perservering with it... She seems to enjoy baby yoga too, especially when windy, but it's not something that appears to settle her.

Have also tried a swing (we have the babydan one), but as mentioned earlier, she only enjoys it when she's not tired otherwise begins to cry. Bought it specifically in the hope that she'd drift off to sleep in it, but that wasn't to be.

Hi Morningpaper - yep, have only used the babybjorn with her facing in. She'll begin to drift off in it, but can't sustain sleep for more than 5 minutes at a time and then wakes up crying. Have been out with her in it for over 1 1/2 hours, in which time she had a total of 20 minutes spread over that time period and was so knackered when we got home she just cried all afternoon.

You're right in that she has a 'main' feed every 3 hours, and then I'll offer her more when I'm trying to settle her, but she usually just bobs on and off and starts whining when I do this because she's not hungry. She'll take a dummy though. I'm not trying to restrict her feeds but she genuinely doesn't seem to want more unless she's going through a growth spurt and I've usually been able to figure out when they happen. She seems to be doing well - has gained 9 oz per week for the last 3 consecutive weeks so I think she's getting enough food.

It's reassuring to hear that other mums have had similar experiences. The mums I seem to know seem to have incredibly docile babies that sleep all the time. They manage shopping trips into Oxford St (I live in London) all the time, whereas I haven't yet managed to leave Hackney! I'm constantly avoiding arranging to do things with people, and it's really difficult trying to explain why because no one else I know seems to understand / or isn't a parent. Morningpaper - it's funny that you suggest bf drop-in, because it's the mums there who have suggested leaving dd to cry it out. The mums who don't have docile babies just seem to put theirs on Gina Ford and leave them to cry.

OK avoid that group then.

What does she do when she takes a dummy? Does she drop off or stare into space?

Have you tried feeding her every two hours to see if this improves things? Perhaps in a darkened room (maybe on your bed) with you both half-naked?

Have you tried scrapping the routine altogether?!

I'd recommend the door-bouncer, especially if she's got strong neck muscles (which I expect she has as she is so curious about the world!).

Everyone will have different and conflicting advice of course... but Tipex's is really the best - go down the path of least resistance and just get through each day as best you can.

From my memory, a lot of it is counting the hours until DH comes home at this age and trying not to scream PLEASE DON'T LEAVE ME WITH THE BABY! when he leaves for work.

How do you get her to sleep at night?

My dd (6 mths) doesn't sleep during the day. E.G. today I got her to sleep for about 30 mins all day. She wakes up about 4/5 times a night. Currently trying PUPD with some success. To a large extent I think it is their personality. My DP sleeps very little and I think our two children take after him.

It's reassuring that the consensus is to abandon the crying it out, I feel so relieved. Today, another mum came round this morning who's done Gina Ford with her baby and made me sit downstairs whilst dd cried upstairs and I felt like I was being so weak by not being able to bear it. Thank you everyone.

I have a babybouncer but haven't tried it yet, so will give that a go.

She usually sleeps pretty well at night. Can take over an hour to settle her initially, usually feed her last thing, sometimes to sleep but she will wake up 10 minutes later, and then we just keep on going up to settle her whenever she starts crying. The dummy does definitely soothe her, sometimes makes her eyes go heavy lidded but she jolts out of that quite often. Once we've got her settle though, she sleeps pretty well, will wake up once or twice for a feed.

It was really horrible. But I've felt so isolated that I didn't feel like I could stand up for myself - it seems to have worked for her baby, and she started CIO when her dd was 2 weeks old.

It's been real relief reading all your posts and not feeling like I should carry on, because I don't think I could have borne another day of it.

Re the routine - she actually seems to be really happy feeding every 3 hours. The reason I put her on a routine in the first place was because she would feed all the time but ended up having 2 awful weeks where she was just screaming and vomiting all the time and wouldn't let me put her down on her back. I thought she had reflux but went to see the GP and they said I should feed her less. I didn't think you could overfeed a bf baby, but I tried cutting down her feeds from every 30 - 60 minutes (which was what she seemed to want when demand feeding), and things improved straight away. And since then she's actually been putting on more weight. The problem does genuinely seem to be overtiredness, and I'm fairly flexible with the feeding on the routine anyway and will feed her more when she'll actually take some - these days she refuses the boob when she's fussing and has already been fed.

mothership
i dont want to be rude or anything, but there is no remedy,, babies dont regulate to a timetable or your perception of what a baby should do. but u can work towards a routine a little lather on

regarding your friend/other mothers, who all have docile babies - take that with a pinch of salt, it only lasts for a few initial weeks and then you have to keep them awake to sleep at night. i bet they sleep in the buggy - naturally with the rocking - and up all evening at home after the days shopping.

40mins for naps is normal in babies of your dds age, right up til 6months, have you seen/read anything about REM in babies. the books tell you some great things and practices that might work but it all takes time and you really have to relax into the role of being at her beck and call for now,

re the swing she'll get to like it, she probably loves being close to you and needs that comforting feeling, afterall 12 wks is not like the previous 40 all cosy, try to just go with her. are u under pressure to do other things?

babies do give tired signs, and maybe if u ignored the baby whisperer for a day or two and just watch her - rubbing eyes, a whimpering sign, she might just settle nicely into her cot.

hth

Hermykne - she's definitely tired when I try and settle her, I wouldn't bother getting her to sleep if she wasn't! When she's tired, she starts first of all goes really still, and then starts fussing and flailing, and then crying increasingly loudly. If I don't start trying to wind her down when she initially starts to yawn and beging to fuss, then it can become impossible to settle her. As I said, she's fine being fed every 3 hours, but not okay on just 40 minute naps - she wakes up after her first sleep cycle and starts crying. I've tried feeding her then (usually have a couple of minutes but then won't want any more), getting her up (fine for 10 minutes, will have a little play but will then start screaming when she remembers that she's tired)... She'll sleep for another sleep cycle on my chest if I hold her, so it sounds like I should just carry on doing that.

I know someone mentioned it before but does she have a dummy?