Misguided Illusion Part II - Baby still not sleeping through by six months? Come and join us!

[MomOrMum]

Thought I would start a fresh thread as, sadly, we have almost filled the first one.

Feral, Kiwi, Chulita, et al...shouldn't we have graduated from this thread by now?!

Now welcoming a new crop of 6 months+ babies determined to help us reach new heights/depths of sleep deprivation.

Here is the original thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/713951-Support-thread-for-those-who-were-under-the-misguided-illusion

Hi all. We have had a good few nights (4 and counting) of sleeping from 10:30 feed until morning (anywhere from 6:30-7:30). I am quite convinced that it won't last as he has done it before and then reverted to type (or worse). Ran has been off his food for the past couple of days and started getting snuffly last night, so I thought we might be done for. I think I might be waking less to his chatting and shuffling now and only wake to cries. Anyways, I will give him two weeks and then I might be able to utter the words "he's sleeping through..."

Galena do you have any hypnotherapy cd's? I downloaded a couple when I was pregnant and not sleeping. Sometimes they would help me nod off, sometimes not, but they always helped me relax.

Galena don't you dare go anywhere - Skye's sleeping gives me hope!

Poor little Alex how was last night IsItMe?

Galena, I was awake from 4-6am last night even though Oscar was asleep - I think after all these months of sleep deprivation we are going to be left with sleeping disorders ourselves...

BB good news ong good nights - long may it last Which hypno CDs did you use by the way? I might be interested in trying those out as well.

Day 11 of The Plan. Last night was: bed 18.40, settle 20.10 (pick up), settle 21.05 (pick up), settle 23.45 (no pick up), settle 00.45 (no pick up), sleep through til 06.00 He squeaked briefly at 4am but put himself back to sleep without intervention. If only I had slept between 4 and 6am, it would have been a really good night!

So today is the day for evaluating the success of The Plan so far. Will do that later when O is napping and report back

Hi all,

Been away for the weekend so have been offline for a while and the good news is that according to medical opinion Jacob's ear ache has gone - but he's still waking up crying, ear pulling and head shaking because he has segued seamless into teething

We're still a week off 26 weeks old but boy is he a natural for this thread. He woke up at 10, 12, 2, 4, 5 and 6 last night. I took him in bed with us by 6 and slept upright holding him - and we've had a catch up nap this morning but as I dealt with all wakings other than the 4am one I worked out I got a grand total of three hours last night

He slept better while we were away as I coslept with him, but our bed isn't big enough for him and Mr Poppet, so he was back in his cot.

Can't decide which is worse - all these night wakings ruining his normal sleep schedule (ha) if we leave him in his cot or the 'bad habit' of cosleeping. What do people suggest?

Wondered about sending in Mr Poppet to deal with the 10pm and 2am wakings and feeding at midnight and fourish. What do people think??

Feeling very crap indeed today.

Oh Poppet that doesn't sound great. I would try to train him out of needing to be fed at every wake (although I'd probably feed for peace if it were me). However, I think it's a case of finding something you're comfortable with and sticking with it. For us, Skye doesn't come out of her bedroom till at least 6am,

Bicnod, how do you feel the plan's going at the moment? To an outsider, it looks like there's definite progress being made!

BB, I don't have any hypnotherapy CDs - any you recommend? You sound like you're having some good nights though! Long may it continue!

IsItMe, I'm hoping last night was better. Poor little Alex.

As for Skye - she's got ANOTHER cold, even before she's completely clear of the last one. Bah! Here's hoping the snot doesn't play havoc with sleep (although she woke half an hour after being put to bed, requiring feeding and stirred again an hour and a half later, although went back off without intervention). On the plus side she's now 14lb 1oz and has been discharged by her consultant. Hooray!

Last night a little better, but still Alex has night-time diarrhoea. He's been a bit better today and ate a little more, so we'll see what tonight holds.

Galena sorry last night not so good for you. Remember even adults have a bad night sometimes, so babies are entitled too. Sending hopeful vibes for tonight.

Poppet you poor thing! And poor Jacob. I hate it when they got straight from one thing to another, you feel terrible and yet feel so sad for them too.

If he's poorly with teething, it's a bit tricky to do much by way of longer-term sleep training. It's more about you surviving really. I know with Alex, feeding him seems to give him some comfort at night when he's teething (but only in conjunction with calpol/calprofen does it send him back to sleep).

When would you feed him on a "normal" night? You could try feeding at those times, and sending DH in at the others, with the fallback of feeding if Jacob doesn't settle for DH within, say, 10-15mins?

Is it an option for DH to sleep somewhere else until Jacob is better, and you co-sleep, if that works for you? I know it doesn't suit us!

Hello,

Been off line since monday evening as I've been having computer issues. Anyway, I think we have finally turned a corner.
thanks so much for all of your support re the car seat incident- I would also second to anyone the advice given to me- avoid driving when knackered.

Anyway we have been doing the advice I mentioned from the health visitor the other day and its worked!

Monday night she slept unitl 2.30 am took 90 mins to settle the selpt until 7am! I was a new person! Then the day time naps are easier- making her have them in the cot- she now doesn't cry for more than 5 mins.

My DD is doing better having enough sleep- she's eating more solids and is happier!

I would seriously reccommend the advice I was given- I was very hesitant to let my DD cry in her cot but it got to the point where I was so tired I was doing more harm than good by not tackling her sleep problem.

Hi all, thanks so much for the support - really feel like I'm just taking not giving at the moment... I'm sorry, but today was just an awful day.
I don't think J is teething - I gave him ibuprofin just in case but no drooling or red cheeks - but he was just awful today, screamy and clingy, and I think it was massive overtiredness. But still with the headshaking and ear pulling, am so confused, could that be tiredness too? I ended up feeding him to sleep for all naps today as I couldn't face a single shush or a pat, and he had two naps longer than an hour today which is unheard of (he normally only does 40 mins tops) and was getting sleepy way earlier than his usual two hours of wakefulness. Think his disrupted night sleeping is causing a vicious circle... how do we end it??? I've swaddled him tonight as a desperate measure as all night wakings seem to begin with him rubbing at his face furiously.
I ended up shouting at him during one epic 20 minute scream fest and pleading with Mr Poppet in tears to read the latest sleep book I've bought - that Healthy sleep habits, happy child one - but no luck he's doing another bastard Sudoku instead. He's never read a single baby book, despite being an educated PhD type, and expects me to have the time to do it and then tell him what to do. But if I do offer him advice its termed 'nagging'. Couple that with no grandparents or close family who can help us and I'm feeling pretty desperate.
If I were sure J was ill/teething then I'd be happy to co-sleep. But I don't want to co-sleep long term and I can't help but think that it's the recent co-sleeping that's partly responsible for the disruption we're currently battling. J prefers the big bed so I can't blame him for doing his darndest to get back in it. I think J used to tend to feed around midnight and fourish so maybe I should stick to my guns for those and get Mr Poppet to do the others. I dread asking him to do that mind, as even when he has hours more sleep than me if it's less than his optimal amount all I hear all day is how tired he is. After almost three weeks of no sleep for longer than three hours it's starting to make me very sick to the stomach... anyway here's wishing lots of lovely sleep for us all and thanks again for the suggestions.

Oh Poppet, you sound at the end of your tether.

We have that Healthy Sleep Habits book, and in a nutshell, he advocates what I think he calls "extinction" for sleep-training, i.e. unlike controlled crying (or "progressive waiting") where you visit your baby at increasingly long intervals, he argues it is better to leave your baby alone until they fall asleep. DH has just chipped in that "it is a bloody hard book to read". It's really poorly organised, and had us both in tears of frustration when we were trying to work out what to do when Alex was at his worst.

If you are looking at controlled crying, DH prepared a plan for us having read the Ferber book. I would be happy to email it to you, as it summarises the approach. We combined it with retaining nightfeeds, so that might be helpful for you too.

DH used a highlighter pen on all the other books we bought at the time, so that's less easy to share with you, sadly. I know CC isn't for everyone.

If MrPoppet isn't willing or able to do his fair share at nights, is there any chance he could pay for a few nights of a night nanny to give you a bit of a break? Not cheap, I know, but was money very well spent for us. They can also help advise you on sleep training approaches. We used the night nannies agency.

Any chance you're near enough to one of us that we could visit with cakes? I would need to wait until Alex is better, as the last thing you or Jacob need is his D&V bug.

Oh Poppet! I know exactly what you mean - Mr Galena seems to require far more sleep than me and if I ask him to do something (like this morning where I asked him to get up at the same time as us...) I suffer all day! And we also don't have family nearby. I second IsItMe though - I wonder if you're close to any of us so we can pop round with sympathy and cakes - and maybe look after Jacob while you have a nap/shower/read a magazine/G&T! Skye also shakes her head and pulls at her ear - it seems to be her 'I'm tired' cues. Rubbing her face tends to mean she's a bit congested and getting/got a cold - trust me, it's grim when she's really snotty and rubbed it all over her face - bluergh!

MrsV, glad to hear you're seeing some improvement. We were worried about your silence!

IsItMe, poor Alex still having a night-time problem. Is he eating something specific in the evening which could be disagreeing with him? It may still be worth having the doc check him out. Unfortunately the positive vibes didn't work, but that's not because she was fussy, but because of this cold. She went to bed at 6ish, woke at 6:45pm for a feed, woke at 12:30am, 3:30-4:30am and 6:30am and fed at all wakings. 3:30 she screamed whenever we put her down - I tried, MrG tried, I tried again, and finally managed by letting her fall asleep on me, waiting a while and then putting her down.

It doesn't help that now we all have the cold - MrG has had it for a couple of weeks now (or maybe he's got the one she's just got rid of) and has been off work since Friday last week. The doc has just signed him off for another week. She's got a cold before really getting rid of the one before. I feel like I'm starting it too. Needless to say, a really restless night wan't what I needed. So... I asked MrG to get up at the same time as us this morning so he could help with the morning stuff. You'd have thought I'd asked him to get up without any sleep - he basically sulked his way through the first hour or so, but now is cuddling Skye while she sleeps and dozing at the same time, so I can't complain too much.

It just drives me up the wall that when he's ill the world has to stop, but when I'm not feeling well I am expected to just carry on regardless. Bah!

Anyway, here's hoping

Morning all. Well we're on day 12 of The Plan and, sorry to shout but, Oscar slept through last night !

I can't believe it. He went down at 18.50, he squeaked but then settled himself at about 22.45, squeaked and settled himself at 05.15 and then up for day at 06.10 I honestly can't believe it. The Plan is clearly working. I know this won't be it now and it will probably be three steps forward and two steps back but that is such an enormous change from the 5, 6 or 7 times waking baby of 12 days ago.

Poppet - I'm so sorry you are going through such a hard time. Sleep deprivation makes you go crazy but sleep deprivation without support from your DH/DP is nigh on impossible to deal with. I would highly recommend Elizabeth Pantley's 'The No Cry Sleep Solution' (this is what I used to form The Plan for Oscar). It requires patience and commitment (i.e. it's been really hard to stick to it at 3am when O has woken up for the third time in as many hours and not just rock him back to sleep for a quick fix) but it works, slowly. It's not a quick solution but you feel better once you have a plan and are sticking to it even if the sleep doesn't improve immediately.

Yes, where are you? I'm in SW London - anywhere close? Might help just to meet up/eat cake with someone and talk it all through.

IsItMe - really hope Alex's bug clears up soon. Night poos are awful.

MrsV - great news - so glad it is working

Galena - poor Skye O is snot free at the moment but I am full of it so not sure how long he will remain clear. Great news on Skye's weight

We're off to HV this morning for O's 8 month check (at 9 1/2 months) - I'm on tenterhooks wondering what centile he's on now...

Bless you, lovely lovely ladies! Have tears in my eyes from reading all these lovely messages. I would gladly buy you all tea and cake, if any of you are in Scotland?
Well I have officially stood down the lynch mob for Mr Poppet extinguishes flaming torch after I went batshit politely explained the situation he agreed to deal with last night's wakings and I slept in the spare room. We'd agreed I would feed J at midnight and four, but Mr Poppet decided to settle him at midnight and five so I only had to feed him at 3am!!!, then J slept through til 8am!!!!!!!!! This made Mr Poppet late for work, compounding his sulk due to last night's words, but I feel nothing short of miraculous!
Thanks so much for all the advice, Galena you're right, I think ear pulling and head shaking might be a new sleep cue, Isitme I'd love to look at the Ferber-based plan you made - but I don't have a message facility on my account as I'm too tight could you possibly paste it into this thread? Alternatively I could make my email address public and just live with the extra spam. And thank you soooo much whoever it was for summarising that book. It IS blummin' complex.
Think that extinction thing is way too hard core for a baby who has been cosleeping. I reckon (if Mr Poppet will agree) we should keep on with him dealing with night wakings to break the night feeding habit down to just one big feed and also with swaddling Jacob again for the time being, then if that doesn't work try PUPD, then try gradual withdrawal, then once J is old enough the Ferber CC, and keep extinction as a LAST resort.
Thank you all sooooooo much - I know it's not the end, but it's a start. Hugs, cakes and G&Ts all round.
skips off

Poppet- So glad to hear you slept last night- sleep deprivation is torture! I would definatley echo all the advice to get your DP on side 100% and come up with a plan to tackle the sleep issues. It may sound wierd but just knowing I had my DP on side made CC far easier and the support really made me feel good. Some how once we'd come up with a plan the wakings in the night didn't feel as bad as we knew it was one step closer to sleepng more.

My DD slept from 7 last night with only a couple of one min mumerings until 7am-unbelieveable!

Afternoon all.

MrsVidic-so glad your silence was a peaceful, happy one. All sounds fab.

Poppet-G&T gratefully received! I am so, so pleased that you made Mr Poppet do some of the work last night. I think another few nights of you in the spare room is a really good idea. My boyfriend couldn't have told you if Ran was sleeping through or not, he was oblivious to it all. It was a pain in the arse but it meant that when I came to the desperate pooped stage, I had no qualms about getting him to deal with the night wakings. I would not have a hope in hell in getting DP to go near a baby book! You never know you may not even need to do CC. Though I think it is not the end of the world if you have to go down that track and you feel able to. Did Mr Pop cosleep last night?

Bicnod-Thrilled that you had a good nights sleep. How was O's Laaaaaaate 8 month check-I hope you replied with glee that 'yes he was sleeping through'! I also live in SW london, so I will look out for a skipping lady full of vim and vigour.

IsItMe- I am really hoping today is the day A's nappies settle down.

Galena- We are still snuffly here. Seems to be affecting Ran's food intake but not sleep. I wonder if ours is actually due to the heating being on all the time rather than actual colds. The hypnotherapy was just a generic one that I downloaded from itunes, as far as I recall there was only a couple of them on there.

Beautiful day here!

Woohoo for Poppet and Mr Poppet. Lol at the flaming torches - DH was about ready to get the pitchfork out on your behalf last night. I'll ask DH if there's any clever way for me to be able to send you the CC doc (which DH wrote), without you getting loads of spam. I have signed up for the messages, but don't know if it only works if we both have...

We are also SW London, so not much help for you all the way up in Scotland. I had assumed Galena might be a Scottish lady, which I realise is based purely on DD's name. So no sweeping assumptions there then!

Galena only just spotted your good news about the consultant signing Skye off. That is brilliant!

I am delighted to be able to report that we had no night nappies last night, and today have had a couple of fairly normalish looking dirty nappies. So am cautiously optimistic. Alex is still in a grotty mood though, so I think he may still be suffering with something. DH and I have colds too - can't tell whether it's that or the night feeds that are making me feel brain-dead today.

Bicnod Am very proud of you and The Plan. Really glad that it is working already.

MrsV Congratulations! Glad it sounds as if things are improving dramatically.

Ps Galena-What progress on the weight. How much was Skye when she was born? She was a early girl wasn't she?

Skye was 1lb 15oz when born - so 14lb 1oz is a HUGE increase! She was born at 27 weeks and 4 days.

Unfortunately she seems to be a poorly little girl today. She's got a chesty cough and cold. She's kept nothing down since breakfast - not milk, not water, nothing. (And yes, I've been on the receiving end 3 times today!) She's very clingy and whingey so we took her to the doctors and he said she does have mild bronchiolitis, but because she didn't need much breathing support at the start, we'll monitor it for 24 hours and see how she goes.

Needless to say I'm now a panicky mother, and, whilst we have put her down in her cot in her room, I'm nervous that she might be really ill overnight and I wouldn't know. I don't deal with poorly children well, you can tell! It doesn't help that another of the babies on SCBU when we were was hospitalised a couple of months ago with bronchiolitis.

I'm really glad everyone else has had so much positive to report - and I know that soon enough we'll be being positive again.

Wish me luck for tonight - plan is just to get through without needing more than a million changes of clothing!

Oh, and I meant to add - we're in Gloucestershire, though hubby is Scottish, hence the name - although the reason behind it is that we had a holiday booked to Skye once my maternity leave started, but we never got there as she was born WAYYYY before that! Hubby decided that if we couldn't go to Skye, Skye could come to us.

It was a name we'd already discussed, but that just clinched it.

Oooh Galena 1lb 15oz, the idea of a baby soo tiny makes me well up, I don't blame you for being a 'panicky mother'.
I really hope Skye starts feeling a lot brighter today, must be sooo stressful for you. You were right about Jacob's nose rubbing. He too is now a snot monster, although at nearly 18lbs (he always was a whopper, hence I have a lovely scar from his emergency exit through the sun roof) I don't have the same degree of fears you do. But it IS still worrying.
Snot not withstanding, Mr Poppet - himself bravely battling manflu - again did the night wakings and apart from a feed at 1am J didn't stir. Infact he only woke up when I pottered into his room at 7.20 because I was missing him.
I really hope this run of luck continues - and does so for all - we NEED it to as we're moving house today. So if I'm out of the loop for a while it's because we'll be without the internet for a couple of weeks. Boo - what will I do to kill time during J's 40 minute micronaps? Oooh yes, that's right, unpack.

Just a quicky. Galena, I hope the bronchiolitis stays mild. My goodness she truly was early and teeny. I love the added meaning to Skye's name. Have you rearranged your Skye trip? Have you got a travel cot you can put in your room, so you can hear her overnight?

Poppet-Good luck with the move. Hope it doesn't disturb J's sleep

IsItMe-I would actually like to steal your DH, so keep him off the streets of SW London. He sounds amazing.

Sleep update=couple of squawks at three, awake at 6:00. Does that count as a full nights sleep? When do you all reckon I should stop offering the 10:00 pm feed? Anyway I can hear him destroying his cot so best fly.

I'm really sorry I haven't got time to comment on everyone's posting but it sounds like there is a lot of good news (apart from horrid colds that is). We have had a few nights of a lot of waking and I'm not really sure why but last night 2 feeds at 12 and 4 so was feeling a bit better until MIL said 'Are you still feeding them? Gosh!' and giggled in the way she does when she's thinking that my 'new-fangled' mothering technique are ridiculous...

Hi all - haven't update for ages and hello to all the new folks.

Do not want to jinx it but I have not got out of bed til the morning for two nights!!!! Unbelievable.

DS is nearly 12 months though. Have not had to do anything horrible and hardly any crying but some gently Elizabeth Pantley stuff. He has gone to bed awake and been put back after feeds awake (this is the key I think).

If someone could have told me that it would be this easy and kind I would never have believed them. Two weeks ago I was getting up every hour (front teeth coming through).

2 swallows don't make a summer but fingers crossed my year of sleep deprivation is coming to an end..... I am not discharging myself from this thread yet!

Hope that gives some of you encouragement. It has been so gentle for him.

Poppet I now have a shiny new MNet specific email, which you can contact me on isitmeor49 @ googlemail . com (without the spaces, obviously).

Bellamysbride Can't have him. Who else would buy me lovely chocs for Valentine's Day and let me eat them early?

dycey that sounds brilliant! Those top front teeth are truly horrendous coming through, aren't they though?

thanks isitme, three nights now! altho I gave him water cos he was coughing so much. Put him back, cried a lot and suddenly was asleep til morning. Seems he has understood. I think age helps with the understanding.

Good luck all and I will keep posting til it is a sure thing!

1stMrsF-Very funny about 'new fangled' parenting techniques. I think my mum feels likewise. She is shocked that I still feed him 5 times a day! We will probably be flabbergasted by the way our babies raise their babies.

dycey-Well done-it sounds like it has all been very kind. I agree with you about the awake to sleep, it really seems to be the clue. I noticed that we have a much better night when Ran has had to get off to sleep in the first place rather than when he is a comatose punch drunk sleepy head at bedtime.

IsItMe- plus a [writhing in jealousy smiley]

Fair night here but we still have three squawks in the early hours, always stops by the time I get there. He sounds unhappy but obviously not too bad. I wonder what it is?? Then woke at six chattering but went off again with no tears.

Well, we've been in hospital since Friday morning... Friday we were at the day unit in our local hospital being monitored. Her breathing was becoming harder work, although she was happy and seemed completely unbothered by it all. In the afternoon they told me we had the choice of whether we wanted her to transfer to the inpatients ward at another hospital closeby or go home as she was borderline. I opted for the transfer.

During the night her oxygen sats levels dropped to 85%, so they put nasal prongs on her (bless her, she escaped SCBU without ever needing them!) She was utterly unimpressed and screamed for 2 hours straight, until they took them off again and put her in a 'headbox' (HEADbox?? It takes her whole body!). She's only needing oxygen overnight, during breastfeeds and for some daytime naps at the moment - when awake or bottle feeding her sats are between 95-100%. However, they drop to low 80s in deep sleep or when breastfeeding.

Add in to the mix a slight fever today, treated with Calpol and it's been a funny few days! I've escaped for an hour or two for sanity's sake while daddy's up there, but will be heading back soon. One plus point through the whole thing is that she's been a very happy and active little girl. All the doctors and nurses keep saying 'But she looks too well to be this ill!'

As for sleep, she had a couple of rubbish nights, but last night went down at 7, woke at 2 for a feed, woke at 5 adn 5:40 and needed a little persuading to go back to sleep, but then woke at 7:30!

Glad to hear there are some positive stories out there!

Ah well, back to the madness (and well done if you've managed to read to the end of this epic post!)