Misguided Illusion Part II - Baby still not sleeping through by six months? Come and join us!

[MomOrMum]

Thought I would start a fresh thread as, sadly, we have almost filled the first one.

Feral, Kiwi, Chulita, et al...shouldn't we have graduated from this thread by now?!

Now welcoming a new crop of 6 months+ babies determined to help us reach new heights/depths of sleep deprivation.

Here is the original thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/713951-Support-thread-for-those-who-were-under-the-misguided-illusion

BB - our HVs are pretty good ime, but I gather they may be the exception?

Forgot to mention we also have the heating on all night at the mo. Was baking last night!

Galena - that sounds like a fantastic night! Go GalenaBaby!

redwillow - welcome, and so sorry to hear your son has been poorly. I hope it wasn't too bad for him. How old is he now?

DS needed a couple of nightfeeds again last night, and then took forever to settle after his 4.45am feed. Eventually DH managed to help him get to sleep at gone 6am. Boy were we grateful for those few extra minutes sleep before he woke at 7. No sign of any teeth yet, so hope this doesn't continue too long.

Galena - your little one is doing so well

BB - LOL, DS ends up the wrong way up in his cot right at the bottom as well, or else wedged sideways... always makes me laugh when I have to go and rescue him!

Hi redwillow - sorry to hear about your DS - swine flu can't have been fun how do you get him back to sleep when he wakes, just give him the dummy? does he ever pick it up himself and put it back in? i've heard of people scattering several dummies around the cot so that the baby can find one in the middle of the night - might be worth a go?!

IsItMe - I find the wakings at 4/5am the worst as they are so hard to settle back to sleep at that time in the morning. Hope you have a better night tonight x

We are now on day 5 of The Plan. Last night O went down at 18.40, needed settling at 20.30, awake again 00.35-01.10, then briefly needed settling at 02.00, then slept until 06.30. So there are definite improvements but still not great. He is getting easier to settle, he is settling himself sometimes and we don't always have to pick him up. He is also napping for at least an hour after lunch. He still needs his morning nap sometimes, but I'm going to try and cut that out over the next few months.

We'll see what tonight brings...

Thanks Bicnod - and well done on The Plan. It does sound as if you are making some good progress, and you know that with the more gentle approaches I gather it does take a little longer. And there is the confidence of knowing that you have not left your little one to cry, which is great.

Hope it continues to improve for you, and everyone else.

redwillow - I seem to recall some discussion earlier on the thread where some people found that the dummy had become a problem rather than a help, and they got some dramatic improvements when they removed it. Sounds scary though, doesn't it? Might be worth you having a look back to see if you can find it. I have not worked out how to search threads yet!

Hi redwillow, sorry you have to join us - I bet swineflu was scary. Had your DS been vaccinated against it?

I had real problems with the dummy - when she is tired, DD pulls the dummy out and then screams because she hasn't got it. I replace it, she pulls it out and screams, etc, etc, etc. I did a few days and nights cold turkey without the dummy. Overnight it took an hour or two of settling in total over a few wakings for one night. She now has the dummy during the day and for naps (and yes, still pulls it out and screams) but doesn't get it overnight and is far easier to settle. However, I've found that in the day she won't settle without it at all.

Ugh. Awful night last night. DS bed at 18.50, quick settle at 21.25 (to lull us into false hope that it would be a good night), then up from 23.45-00.15, up at 01.40, up from 04.40-06.00 (with a MASSIVE pooey nappy), then up for day at 07.00.

Arrrrrrrrrrrgh.

Hi Redwillow, it must be even harder once you have already experienced the bliss of an unbroken nights sleep!

Oh Bicnod-poor you that's a crap one. Thank goodness it is saturday tomorrow so hopefully you can catch up on some rest.

I am full of cold today and was cream crackered last night so I think there was only one wake up but I couldn't vouch for it. He had a feed as he had been biting at his bedtime feed so he didn't get much then. Off out tonight, so fingers crossed he behaves for our babysitter .

Poor Bicnod! You know, I'm pretty sure we've had that night at least once too. It has a horribly familiar ring to it.

But it will pass. IIRC Elizabeth Pantley says that you shouldn't expect to see steady improvement day by day, but you'll see a change if you compare every couple of weeks.

Meanwhile, is there a playgroup you can go to, to help you get through the day?

xx

Oh Bicnod, that doesn't sound good!
I'm afraid we had a good night - bed at 7, up for feed at 2:15 then down again till 6:30-7ish. Again she only had 2 short naps during the day so maybe this is the way to go... Ho hum.

Thanks for all the sympathy lovelies I'm still in my pjs at the moment (having a terrible case of can'tbearsed) but have plans to walk into town with a friend and her little one this afternoon (with the incentive of cake to get me there) so will get out of the house.

IsItMe - you're right - EP is all about baby steps. She says the road to sleep is more like a dance, two steps forward and one step back, so trying not to feel disheartened.

Its only day 6. The Plan will work. Eventually.

Rah.

Galena - yay for good night it gives me hope!

BB - yay for night out - anywhere special?

Poor DS has been vomiting all day, and I panicked this afternoon when he even started bringing up breastmilk. Thank goodness for the wonderful nurse on NHS Direct who talked me through what to do, and blow me if the magic calpol (that stayed down, when I did it when she told me to) didn't take him from unresponsive blank staring floppy baby to smiling at daddy in 25 minutes.

We bought him home from the GP's surgery without waiting to see anybody as he was so much his usual self again, and managed to keep some fluids down. We have anxiously fed him one and a half plum baby pouches, and DH is now doing bath before we go for feed and bed.

Hopefully he is on the mend now. Was his first proper illness, so I have been very lucky, but wasn't really prepared for it!

Think DS is allowed to have a bad sleep night tonight!

Poor baby IsIt glad he's on the mend though - its so frightening when they're ill. He might sleep better tonight - babies are strange unfathomable creatures so you never know!

Poor little IsItBoy. It's not nice when they are poorly. I agree he may sleep better... DD always seems to do what I least expect.

Again she's only had a small amount of daytime sleep today. However, something she has been doing is taking more formula in the day. (I bf at bedtime, overnight and first thing in the morning, but am trying to get her to ff during the day.) Until Wed she'd NEVER taken more than 3 1/2 ounces of formula at once. Wed she took 4 1/2 in the afternoon (nothing in the morning)! Yesterday she took 2 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon. Today she took 3 1/2 in the morning and 4 1/2 this afternoon!

Not quite sure which feed to drop next. I dread having to get up and prepare a bottle in the middle of the night or in the morning, and I quite like bfing her to sleep. Ah well, I guess that's a whole other thread!

DS has now slept through for the past four nights. No idea why. I'd been keeping a diary of when he fed, napped, etc, to try and see if a routine would help, and at the very least try and replicate a day that preceded a full night's sleep. No pattern emerged. And the past few days have been pretty chaotic, with feeds and naps all over the shop.

So, maybe it's true what they say: it's just a phase.

I hope this brings hope, ladies, rather than irritation!

Room for another unwilling insomniac, keen to be dragged kicking and screaming onto this thread? My DS is a bit 'advanced' sigh being only five and a half months old, but I have a feeling we'll still be in this sleep deprived limbo in two weeks time.
Ugh where to start - well he slept blissfully in his baby hammock - regularly sleeping through from three weeks to four months. I know hate me, hate me, even I hate mums like me NOW, but I'm getting my penance for my earlier dumbass first time mum smugness. This is peasy we thought we've got a sleeper bitter bitter laugh. Unfortunately all that sleep means lots of growing and as he's on the 91st centile for height he outgrew his hammock at four months, not the seven it promised wail
Since then we've had the four month sleep regression so at least two or three night wakings a night and we're now 13 days into an ear infection and I haven't had more than three hours sleep in a row since it began. wail
Last night was up at 1, fed him for an hour then put him down three times - each of which he woke up again within 30 mins finally after dosing him with Calpol I got some shut eye at 4, then he woke up again at 5. I took him into the bed and coslept and fed him til 7, and have been doing that on a few of the worst nights, sometimes taking him into the bed as early as 2ish and am bricking it that he's learning to prefer it to his cot, which we'd finally got him to fall asleep in awake (courtesy of years of my life spent shush patting) but I think he's rather keen to regress to his hammock days where he'd happily doze off on the boob. I have nothing against those who want to co-sleep but I find I get very little sleep and a freezing cold nork!
Still no solids here yet but I don't think it's hunger as he feeds (super fast distractible five minute long slugs) every two hours during the day and has one nap with me in the morning where I fall asleep and he snoozes and feeds for about an hour and a half.
Ugh herbaceous how old is your DS? I'd love to have an approximate idea of when 'this too shall pass'
Help....

Oh Poppet - you poor thing

No idea when this too shall pass - DS is 9 months old and still at it, but there is definitely hope on this thread...

Do you give him calpol before you put him down? I definitely would be if I knew DS had an ear infection - if it helped him settle at 4am he must have been in pain...

Really hope you have a better night tonight x

Thanks Bicnod, I don't know if I can cope with four more months of this.
And yup he has the full dose about 30 minutes before bed so it has time to kick in... you're right though I should have given him some more at the first waking, not the third ... but you know how it is when you're not thinking straight/just want to feed them back to sleep asap. He now has a huge thing about being given medicine because at the start of the bug he was on ibuprofin and calpol, so he now HATES the syringe and tends to go loopy as soon as he even sees it, not good for a calm restful middle of the night waking...
Actually it was the fact he woke again an hour later after he eventually had that second dose that had me worrying it might not be pain anymore - it might be because he wanted to be in the big bed. I was talking to the doc about him and how he falls asleep on your shoulder sometimes during all this and she said that sounded like he wanted comfort not that he was in pain because if he was in pain he wouldn't settle anywhere. But I wondered if he was settling because it hurts less when he isn't lying flat but is upright on my shoulder? Ugh.. don't know what to do, she's got me really worrying that i'm 'making a rod for my own back' etc etc.
Oh and hi all!

Go BabyHerb! Long may it continue...

Welcome Poppet. Sorry you have to join us. I don't know what I can suggest - DD is 9.5 months and now wakes once or twice a night. However, she was 3 months prem, so is really 6 1/2 months. She, however, loves the calpol syringe, and when I filled it this evening (she's getting through a cold, and we dose her just to make sure she's not in pain) she got really excited and wanted to grab it herself.

My experience of ear infections are that they are utterly miserable and you can't get comfy lying down. Your DS may well still be uncomfortable, and needing cuddles. I'm afraid I'm of the 'If she's ill I'll cuddle her if she needs it' school of thought, and generally DD copes with that and after the illness goes back to normal wakes. In a way, I think I'm glad I never learned to feed lying down - we've never had to break that habit.

Hello Poppet, sorry you need to join us.

I'm with Galena, in that I class illness-related sleeping problems as completely different from other sleeping problems. I think you have to go with your instincts of what your little one needs to help them get through it, and worry about any bad habits once they are properly better. We've looked at quite a lot of sleep books in our time, and I'm not aware of anybody who says anything other than comfort them when they're poorly.

The only advice I do recall is to try not to bring them into your own bed if you can help it, e.g. by having a bed in their room if you need to sleep with them. We don't have the space for this in DS's room, so have not had that option. We have been lucky in that DS does seem to prefer sleeping in his own cot/space.

I definitely agree with whoever said that the sleep deprivation feels worse when they've let you have a taster of longer spells of sleep. There are things you can try to help your DS sleep better once he's got over the ear infection, and you'll find people here who've tried most things. Do you know what sort of approach you would be wanting to take?

I've been awake since 5am, BFing DS on and off. He's sleeping now but I can't go back to sleep as I'm too distracted to do so now...

that's it- I'm joining as my DD's off nights are now normal nights- waking at 3am most nights

Its horrible she obviously needs the sleep and is a dream from 7pm-3am

I have tried dream feeding her at around 10pm and this has little effect.

I feed her at 3am and then she wont sleep unless she is on me- and then I can't rest.

She is 28 weeks and is weaned. She used to sleep through just fine now I don't understand it

Can anyone suggest anything? Would Formula help? Any good books? (Would resort to hiring a wizard I'm frankly that desperate)

Morning ladies...

Poppet - I'd also go with the cuddling to sleep until ear infection sorted... all the books I've read, and there have been many, say that any form of sleep training (be that CC or no-cry sleep stuff) should go on hold if your baby is unwell. How was last night?

Welcome MrsVidic - poor you what happens if you try and put her back down in her cot after her 3am feed? Have you tried PUPD? IME formula makes not a jot of difference (DS was bf to 6 months, then mix fed for a couple of months and now on formula). I'm on day 7 of trying Elizabeth Pantley's techniques from the No Cry Sleep Solution - have you come across it?

So an update. We are on day 7 and although not really supposed to be looking for improvements until day 11 I have to say that last night was (for us at any rate) AMAZING.
DS had a morning nap, a post-lunch nap and down to bed at 18.35. Woke briefly at 19.00 and 20.15 and needed picking up to settle. He then woke at 23.20 and I managed to settle him without picking him up , and again at 03.10 (DH did it without picking him up as well ). He then slept until 06.00! This feels like a major breakthrough as no long periods of wakefulness in the middle of the night, only 2 middle of the night wakings and they were both dealt with in the cot, and no ridiculously early waking!!

I know that is is likely to be two steps forward and one step back but last night gives me the confidence that what we are doing will eventually work.

Baby steps and patience, baby steps and patience. Sleep will be mine, mwa ha ha ha ha.(not sure why the evil cackle but felt appropriate)

Yay for BicnodBaby - at least you know he can do it, even if he doesn't do it again today. Well done on sticking to The Plan!

MrsVidic - hello! That sounds grim.

DS did go through a phase when he really struggled to get back to sleep in the early hours of the morning. This was after we'd tried CC with him. IIRC he had about a week of nights with up to 2 hour long wakes. For most of that he was chatting/dozing in his cot, and I think it was only one night where we had a significant amount of crying. Then he just stopped and started being able to get back to sleep quickly.

Of course, now he's been coldy, teething and now got D&V bug, all bets are off again on sleeping!

But the sleep books told us that it is harder for anybody - baby or adult - to get back to sleep in the early hours of the morning (3-6am I think), because you've already had a decent chunk of sleep, so you're just not that tired. DS seemed to need that week to learn how to get himself back to sleep when he wasn't completely knackered from a busy day.

So, maybe find a sleep training technique you're happy to try and persevere with it in those dark, dark hours of the early morning (e.g. pick up put down, shush/pat, CC if you're totally desperate, although your DD is still quite young for that)? Those times always seem worse to me than say 1am or 6am. The books say you should persevere with any new technique for at least 3-4 days before knowing that it isn't working for your baby. HTH.

Bicnod is here and I thought I'd come join you guys.

The Cub is trying to do away with sleeping through the day due to snot and teeth.

It'sNotBeenAFunFewWeeksTiggaxx

Hello tigga - I think you were on the BLW thread?

How old is tigga Cub? I am the queen of stressing over day time naps, so you have my sympathies. DS has done so many different things, that I did wonder if he was trying to drop from 2 to 1 naps (he's just coming up to 11mo), but snot, teeth and sick have intervened, so I'm just going with the flow (no pun intended!).

Poppet We sound like we have similar offspring! BabyHerb slept through the night from two months to four months. Marv. Then he started waking anything from one to six times a night, with seemingly no pattern. Around Christmas he teased us with a few full nights, then went downhill fast, culminating in waking every 45 minutes. I'm assuming that abberation was down to teething.

Anyway, now he's nearly seven months. He's been eating solids, in a BLW manner, for a month now, so maybe it's because his digestion has now got used to it... Lord knows. He does seem much happier now he's getting more sleep, though.

He only has three 30-min naps in the day, but that's no problem if he's sleeping at night!