Support thread for those who were under the misguided illusion that their DC would sleep through by six mo - come and join!

[arthymum]

Did you assume that your DC would be sleeping through by the time they were 6 mo - and now you've hit the milestone you realise you were wrong, wrong, wrong as you stagger out of bed 1, 2, 3 times a night?

Do you sometimes can't help but wonder if you'd done things differently (BF/FF/stuck with the dreamfeed/co-slept/put them in their own cot/followed a GF routine/listened to your MIL ) you'd be getting more sleep?

Do you sometimes dread meeting up with other mums with perfect sleepers (especially when said babies are way younger and tinier than yours)?

Are you in a permanent state of confusion and doubt about whether to 'try' something or not (CC, ssh-patt, PUPD, NCSS etc.) but feel it's never the right time (teething, cold, too young) and not sure anyway whether you have the bottle/energy to see it through?

Do you hold out faint hopes that they'll sleep better when they're on solids/when the teeth come through/when they're another pound heavier/when they're in the new gro-bag/when they're on more solids - and each time - wrong again?

Do you mostly cope okay but every now and then feel tired and miserable and sorry for yourself and burst into tears at the postman or get into a petulant fight in Sainsbury's?

Do you secretly fear that you'll be on here in 3 years time, posting about the fact that you haven't slept for nearly 4 years?

Then come and join me! I've seen you lurking on other threads but feel that we need a place to congregate. Share your tears, tantrums, triumphs and tips - and hopefully one by one, we can all eventually disappear off the thread and into the land of nod....

Ali- it's unfortunately that your DS has a cold, because everyone says sleep training can't really work when babies are under the weather or teething or whatever. So I wouldn't be too discouraged that it hasn't worked that well in previous days. I think if you persevere & insist, he'll eventually get the message. I think CC (like every other thing) works differently for each baby, but the key is, I suspect, to make a decision as a parent & to be consistent. Maybe there won't be a miracle solution, but there's bound to be a positive change.

Girls, my news is that things have been going from bad to worse. After our miraculous 9 hours sleep on saturday (in our bed), we've had 2 nights (sunday & monday) of DS waking- after 11 pm- every hour. Last night it was almost as if he had an internal alarm clock! Woke at 12.30, 1.30, 2.30, 3.30... you get the picture. Woke for the day at 6.00, full of energy. Can't see where they get the energy when they haven't slept well all night. In any case, I'm thinking 2 things (& I'd like your opinions). The first is that this constant waking (which is a new thing, he used to sleep much much better) has to do with us being inconsistent with the getting-him-out-of-our-bed mission. So perhaps it's a sort of 'wanting contact in the night' thing. In which case, hopefully he'll soon outgrow it. My second theory is that he may be slightly cold. He sleeps very well (in his cot, in his room) both for naps, and between 7 pm and 11 pm. Later, the waking starts after his 11 o'clock bottle. At that time we usually go to bed ourselves & turn off the heating. Could it be that he's slightly cold, especially since he was used- after 11- to be in our bed, between 2 warm bodies, sometimes under the duvet (up to his middle) etc. I suspect it may be a 'I'm not cosy' kind of crying...

Anyway. The big news is that DP has decided that from now on he does the night shifts. So he's the one going to DS's room, comforting him, replacing his dummy etc...and I then am in charge of the morning (and all day) shift. I think DP feels that I'm far too soft and / or tired, and keep bringing DS back to our bed in the early hours of the morning (which is true ). So I'm very happy with this decision, I've bought earplugs, but unfortunately last night I still woke every hour, when DP got out of bed to go to DS. So perhaps DP might need to temporarily move to the living room sofa...

Sorry it's gone bad again, Maria. But, on the positive side - what a great DP you have! DP and I mainly start off in the same bed at the moment (unlike when I was pg and he got kicked out for several months!) but there's no telling where we both end up...

I guess it's a big change for your DS and that disruption alone may be causing the waking - his sleep cycle is probably an hour now so he's waking up every hour and thinking "Where are those nice warm people?!" He will probably get used to it eventually and wih some settling and reassurance (but what do I know?!). Re: your other theory, what does he sleep in? We used to worry abou DS getting cold before Christmas and so we used to set the heating to come on for an hour between 1 and 3, just to take the chill off!

Just one other thought - have you always done the 11 feed? Do you wake him for it? We tried this feed early on (and several times since!) but found that it made no difference to him sleeping through and in fact, if we woke him up for it, it seemed to make things worse. Which is why I won't get a proper night's sleep until he decides to go 7-7, aargh!

Fingers crossed you have a better one tonight.

hmm sweet potato did not improve ds's sleep last night . Gave him some more today in case it takes time to take effect

maria I worked out my ds was cold when he was waking hourly (especially between 2 and 6am) - one night he was wet through and when I took his grobag off his body did not feel toasty. Also, that night he cried and then fell asleep as soon as he was in our warm bed and did not need a feed. We tried a fleece on his bed and matters improved overnight. Having said that, he seems programmed to wake every 2/3/4 hours but at least that's better than hourly.

ali CC sounds hard to enforce, I cannot bear to hear ds's little plaintive cry - and the guilt if after all the crying, it did not work! It's probably the case that consistency is key though.

Sambo- well, about the CC, I think sometimes there is simply no other solution. I think we can take it as a given that all of us cannot bear to hear our babies cry... it's such a sad sad sound, and personally it fills me with guilt within seconds (Even if I'm just at the toilet). But if a parent gets to the point of complete exhaustion, I can't really see other solutions working. I'm saying that as someone who- the same with DP- cannot bear to hear DS cry. But we have paid the price for this (and DS has paid it too) because we have created & reinforced a dummy addiction, which now has come back to haunt us. We knew on some level that taking him out of our bed would mean we would perhaps have to deal, as a next step, with the dummy... But now that we're at that stage, it feels really bad, because I know for a fact that taking the dummy away- an important part of his sleep ritual- will mean lots & lots of crying (probably much more than the normal CC would involve). Anyway. I suppose I'm hoping against all hope that the problem will somehow be magically resolved... We've given it a week, DP will be consistent, will go & reassure DS, & replug his dummy, & all that. And if the one-hourly waking continues, we've decided we'll visit a sleep counsellor (we've even chosen who) & will go down some kind of sleep training route...

maria I have read on another sleep thread (I've read a lot of them) that if your dp will do the settling, this can sometimes work wonders as your ds knows there is no chance of food. Perhaps a man is a bit more goal focussed in this regard whereas women are softer and give in to the crying. Good luck , hope it works.

Sambo, I do hope you're right The thing is, even if things don't improve, I'm happy with the person we've chosen (as long as she has time to see us of course) as a sleep consultant. I like her ideas, I've got a good recommendation about her... and she's not a 'leave them to cry' kind of person so I think she'll respect that we're 'softies' & hopefully she will even propose a plan that suits us. I'm prepared to pay the money to do this because, frankly, after 2-3 months at the end of pregnancy of no sleeping, and after 7 months of broken nights, I'm at the end of my tether.

What pains me is that other mothers seem to be able to go on for years & years without sleep... I admire them, in a way. It's just that I cannot do it, I'm almost depressed & constantly angry by the lack of sleep. I know it'll be so much better for DP, me & DS if we get (somehow, someway) some sleep. I'm not talking about perfect solutions. But some sleep.

Hello, can I join you? DS is now 8 months, hasn't slept through once. Goes down perfectly by 7pm every night, wakes up at least twice until I go to bed around 11, when I feed him, then wakes at least two more times before we're up for the day between 7 and 8. We often end up co-sleeping just to get as much sleep as possible.

He takes a short nap in the mornings; I usually go to bed with him for 1-2 hours in the afternoons, which makes me feel human, even if it does take a chunk out of the day. Obviously I'm not working at the moment, dreading that if he's still no better by then.

Will be watching for the success stories when they come!

maria - I doubt this will help you much but my MIL says she broke her DS1's dummy habit (my BIL) by taking it off him and then going down to the end of the garden for an hour so she couldn't hear him crying (she did it in summer and her garden is pretty big). Took 3 nights, she says.
Am also a bit that your DP is taking an active role in helping you with your DS's sleeping - my DH is steadfastly leaving all the night work to me.

The cold thing - yes, I think that can cause a problem - DS is generally a hot baby and can't have too many covers, but when our heating goes off, he does get chilly as well if I don't remember to go and put an extra blanket on him by 1am. so he wakes up if he's chilly, but also if he's too hot - fine balancing act!

I have to report that DS is now routinely falling asleep at 10pm. If I let him get to that point, fall asleep properly and put him in the cot, he stays down and sleeps until about 2am. Last night, I fed him at 2am and managed to get him back into the cot again - hurrah! And then he didn't wake again until 5am. 10pm is far too late though. He has always been a late bird, the earliest I have managed to get him into his cot and stay asleep for any length of time is 8:45pm (once). 9pm was his normal for ages, but it's got later recently. I have tried stopping his afternoon nap but he gets too fractious and won't eat his dinner if he's tired!

brill thread! We had 1 magical week when my DS slept through the night , it was when he was 4 months - he's now 6 months and has never done it since. Sleeping getting worse in fact! He's gone from sleeping in his cot to sleeping in bed with me & my DP on the settee - He doesn't wake for food, just comfort but can be up to 5 times a night ARGH! We are both haggard & are trying CC this weekend - how long it will take I don't know but am trying it out of desperation!

morning fellow sufferers

no miracle again last night, I hope others have better news.

Now I am sure ds is getting used to and liking co sleeping - he sucks for 1 min at the breast and I am so tired I fall asleep and wake up and he's there - I move him to his cot, fall asleep then half an hour later - waaah! he's in with me again, one min on the breast, we both fall asleep etc.

My ds is in an amby natures nest - like a hammock on a spring. It's supposed to guarantee sleep! Does anyone else have experience of these? It is good for rocking and bouncing ds without picking him up but I think the air circulating under him makes him cold (the mattress is a thin piece of foam) though ds sleeps on a lambskin fleece too now and he's wedged in so cant really move and I think he's been waking due to wind which he cant move along by moving his body - and now we're on food he's very windy. So all in all, not a success. All his naps from now on will be in his cotbed.

Hello all - and welcome Bluejellie and Whinegums. (Subtle change of OP name here!)

[speaks very quietly lest DS should hear]

We have had a good couple of nights here, with DS going from 7.15 until 1ish, a ten minute feed and then back down until 6/6.30. But now that I've written it down, it will of course all go wrong! I am also convinced that he is bored stiff of hanging out with me all day so am today starting a concerted campaign of 'doing things'. I used to put him on his mat and he would play with his toys for ages but now he rolls off it halfway across the room and then headbuts the sofa and starts crying. So today is storytime, tomorrow is cinema...haven't got to Friday yet. Hopefully all the extra stimulation will tire his little mind out.

Maria - so sorry you have been feeling down. How did last night go? I have also heard that the man doing all the settling can work wonders too. But if not, you are quite right, you have to do whatever is right for you all. And it's good that you have found someone whose methods you are happy with.

Sambo - not many other graduates of the 4/5 month club on here yet. Do you think their DCs are all sleeping through now? Surely not...

Hello all. I actually feel like a human being today, DS not waking up at all until 5.30. Which is still hideous but at least it meant I got an unbroken night.

About dummies - Maria, we went cold turkey with DS's when he was three months and although it was hellish it was sooooooo worth it. My brother's DS still has his at the age of 2.5 and screams blue murder if anyone tries to touch it. It rules their life, and they have to have about 10 spares in different drawers aruond the house. If it helps, we went cold turkey while on hoiday in Cyprus, which meant it was warm, sunny, there were no other pressures and no-one to hear his screams! The relief when he finally substited his thumb was immense!

DS had a two hour nap yesterday lunchtime (albeit in his pram) and then at bedtime put himself to sleep for the first time ever - i bathed and fed him, took him round the room saying goodnight as always, he wasn't sleepy so i just put him down, kissed him goodnight and left - went back 10 minutes later and he was asleep! didn't stop him waking 4 or 5 times before he got up for the day at 5am, though

Hi,

Posted a while back and been having a few quick peeks in between. DD is still sucha rubbbish sleeper but am determined to see the water down milk through for a few days to see if that will stop her waking up at night. LAst night was bad - woke up every hour wanting the bottle and each time I gave her a bit of a bottle which had 9 ounces with one scoop of milk. By 3 am she had been through 2 bottles then suddenly slept through! Fingers crossed for an improvement tonight....

Has anyone tried the water down milk method succesfully.

Maria 2--7 - I have the same fantasy as you. I keep saying I am going to take some time off work and while the kids are at nursery am going to just sleep the whole day.

Sambo / Maria: I am completely with you on not liking CC. I was loathe to do it for months and months and tried everything else I could think of. I finally realized enough was enough when I spent the other weekend wondering if I had PND. However, after a good 3 hour sleep one afternoon I immediately felt like myself again and realized that the sleep deprivation was beginning to make me feel ill. I think with CC it is something that you can only do when you are ready to do it. I have also found that it is not nearly as bad as the thought of it. At the first attempt DS slept after 11mins and I was so surprised as I had been bracing myself for an hour or more. Now that I know he is capable of self-settling it makes the CC much easier. Whereas a week ago I mistakenly believed that he was unable to go to sleep unlesss he was nursing. I have realized now that my belief was stopping me from even giving him the chance to try going to sleep alone.

As an indication of progress, over the last day DS has slept in the day twice without nursing, and under 10 mins of crying each time. AND last night he went to sleep at bedtime silently, he just fell asleep by himself in his cot. Staggering!

Still to work on though:
Napping for more than 25 mins at a time
The part of the night between 4 and 7am.

Hi everyone - can I join too? My DD2 is 8 months old and has NEVER slept through.

This is our routine - she goes down at 7 with a bottle of 'Good Night Milk'...yeah right! Wakes up at 9pm (I breastfeed her back to sleep) - she wakes up again at 11pm (I breastfeed her back to sleep) - she wakes up at 3.15am - I give her a bottle as there's just not enough milk in me (I don't BF during the day). And that's usually it then until 6.30am although I wake up with her in the bed with me so I think she's probably waking again about 5am ish and I just bring her in with us....though I'm so knackered I don't remember bringing her in with us!

I think if Gina Ford came and watched me in action she'd probably slap me silly!

I so desperately want to stop BFing her to sleep (she's biting me now FGS) but everytime she kicks off I just resort back to it because I know it works!

Hi again all! Another bad night, DP now insists he want to start the CC thursday not the weekend- he's getting as desperate as I am! Does evryone else's little ones also have problems napping in the day? Mine is cranky and overtired most of the afternoon, having 20-30min naps here and there - is a nightmare! The only place he will sleep any length of time is in the car or in his pram - so we spend a lot of time out and about! Am dreading the CC, didn't want to do it, but I am resolute now that SOMETHING needs to change, for his sake as much as ours. He;s a very content little man when he's had a decent kip.

Will keep you posted over the weekend as to how it goes, I am expecting there will be more tears from me than him!

AliandHerScallywag I have PND and are taking ADs, but I know the sleep deprivation contributes immensely. When I have had a decent nights sleep I cope with the day much better. One of the first thing my GP asked was if DS was sleeping through, and it was him that suggested the CC once DS was 6 months

BlueJellie my DS is a serial catnapper as well, always has been. he'll sleep longer if there's nothing else to do i.e. in car or pram, but put him down at home and the very most you'll get out of him is an hour. usually it's 30-40 minutes.

BlueJellie - so sorry to hear that you are suffering with PND. I really hope the CC helps you and your family - try to be consistent between you and your DH. Let us know how you get on.

What can I say... it's so depressing to read this thread (and also laugh-out-loud at times )

MissM thanks so much about describing your ditching-the-dummy experience. I think, if it weren't for the dummy, I would be doing CC by now... but I think CC does not specifically address dummy addiction issues. What I'm saying is, we need to see what's happening with the dummy, & then (if we then need to) do some kind of sleep training, e.g. PUPD or even CC if we are not too chicken. By the way, just to say, I really admire you for taking the plunge & ditching the dummy... Not sure why I'm so scared of doing it... he just loves his dummy so much...

bluejellie I am so with you on the desperation - and my dp is the same cos he's a really light sleeper and he's tried to sleep in 2 other rooms of our (tiny) house to no avail and can still hear ds cry. Let us know how you got on with cc - I described it to dp last night and his ears pricked up. Thing is, my ds does seem to be hungry in the night - with cc are you supposed to just carry on even if you suspect hunger? I have been doing BLW but am wondering if maybe I should just give ds a load of cereal/pureed something around 5 or 6??? (started blw cos I have a bit of a phobia about spooning puree into babies' mouths, dont know why or where it came from, but had to care for my 9M old nephew who is on lumpy purees on Tuesday and it was not as horrendous as I thought, just a bit stomach churning, but I coped, so I think I could do it with ds). Very sorry to hear of your PND - good luck tonight/this weekend

I am a little worried by the dummy thing - dp has insisted we use one that my SIL gave us before ds was born in a little pack of 'things you will need' so lately he's been using it a lot and on a few occasions it has worked like a dream and ds has fallen asleep in minutes. Most of the time now though he takes is out of his mouth and plays with it, and cannot put it back in and cries. I dont think he's addicted yet, should we take it away altogether?

Last night I went to bed at 7.30pm and was almost asleep at 8pm when ds started wailing. Unheard of (put him to bed as usual at 6.50pm), and used dummy to get him to sleep. Then by 1.30am I had been up twice, bf him and fallen asleep with him in bed and replaced him in his cot. Tried dummy at 1.30 - me holding his hands down by his sides to prevent him taking it out - everytime I got back into bed, it fell out and he started crying. Dp brought him into bed, cross words were exchanged, I bf him, we all slept. I bf once more in the night cos he was wailing, then woke later and replaced him in his cot. He woke again around 6.30. So I make that 5 wake ups. Hmm. I feel relatively ok though due to the extra hours sleep I got at the start of the night. Maybe that is the way forward: go to bed at 7ish !!

Sambo, yes yes, please listen to me- I'm talking from bitter experience here!!- take away the dummy now that it's still easily doable! You will really regret it if your DS gets addicted to it & really needs it in the night & wakes up for it. It will create loads of extra problems that you really don't need on top of everything else. If I were you I'd bite the bullet now- because it seems things aren't that bad yet- & would take it away. Just cuddle him through the crying, it shouldn't be too much crying in your son's case because he doesn't seem to be that addicted to it yet. If you want more detailed ideas about how to ditch the dummy, let me know- I've researched the issue to death, I just can't quite seem to get around to actually doing any of what I've researched

Just been reading back through my posts to see what was happening last week when nights were better - this week has been a return to 3 hourly form Coinciding with 2 meals a day instead of 3, perhaps?

oh well, was up three times last night instead of 5 - an improvement.....think the watered down milk might be helping

actually feel like i am ready to save the world having woken up less times.