Support thread for those who were under the misguided illusion that their DC would sleep through by six mo - come and join!

[arthymum]

Did you assume that your DC would be sleeping through by the time they were 6 mo - and now you've hit the milestone you realise you were wrong, wrong, wrong as you stagger out of bed 1, 2, 3 times a night?

Do you sometimes can't help but wonder if you'd done things differently (BF/FF/stuck with the dreamfeed/co-slept/put them in their own cot/followed a GF routine/listened to your MIL ) you'd be getting more sleep?

Do you sometimes dread meeting up with other mums with perfect sleepers (especially when said babies are way younger and tinier than yours)?

Are you in a permanent state of confusion and doubt about whether to 'try' something or not (CC, ssh-patt, PUPD, NCSS etc.) but feel it's never the right time (teething, cold, too young) and not sure anyway whether you have the bottle/energy to see it through?

Do you hold out faint hopes that they'll sleep better when they're on solids/when the teeth come through/when they're another pound heavier/when they're in the new gro-bag/when they're on more solids - and each time - wrong again?

Do you mostly cope okay but every now and then feel tired and miserable and sorry for yourself and burst into tears at the postman or get into a petulant fight in Sainsbury's?

Do you secretly fear that you'll be on here in 3 years time, posting about the fact that you haven't slept for nearly 4 years?

Then come and join me! I've seen you lurking on other threads but feel that we need a place to congregate. Share your tears, tantrums, triumphs and tips - and hopefully one by one, we can all eventually disappear off the thread and into the land of nod....

did he sleep through?

Sparky, yes, unfortunately he slept through (well, that is, he slept completely undisturbed from 11 til 7.00) Just one brief waking (less than 1/2 min.) at 2.30 am for his dummy. Which I re-plugged in my sleep & only registered vaguely, almost within a dream, that this was happening.

Cannot BELIEVE the difference between the previous night & this one. Just goes to show that he certainly has a preference, which is to sleep with us Don't know if I should be happy or sad, knowing that I'm only ever a few hours away from a good night's sleep... as long as I bring him into our bed

(I'm sure one could say- 'well why not co-sleep then & get it over with'. Well we did for almost 6 and a half months, & we really really felt we wanted to move him to his own room...and it was going ok for the first couple of weeks of the move; it just got slightly worse recently- and VERY worse on friday).

So what to do now... Any suggestions?

DP has decided we need to go completely cold turkey on the DS in his own room thing. So tonight I'm putting on earplugs, DP will sleep on the side of the bed where the monitor is, & he'll be the one going in & doing the dummy replugging, cuddling, sh-sh-shing or whatever else is needed (hopefully nothing will be needed).

Wish us luck. I'm so disappointed that in order to get a good night's sleep we needed to backtrack & bring him to our bed...but a sleepless woman has to do what she has to do sometimes...

Eeek, Maria, that is good news/bad news! I don't have any words of wisdom as DP and I are the worst sleepers in the world at the best of times and so never co-slept with DS. Just sending you and DP good luck for tonight - hopefully your DS will have reminded himself how to sleep through and all will be well.

Re: your last comment - sometimes I sit and think about exactly what I would do to have a good night's sleep. Sometimes it even involves Jeremy Clarkson. Yes that bad.

Maria- glad that you can get some sleep but can understand your dilema.

My DD2 (and DD1) were always worse when in with us. It's as if they find being close to me 'stimulating' as in they were forever scrobbling about trying to put fingers in my mouth, pinching my skin, pulling my hair etc.

Had I been able to give them restful comfort then i might have gone down co-speeping route for longer.

You could look at it as in DS sleeps better in your bed (for whatever reason) at this time/ point of development. You can give him this comfort.He may grow out of needing that at which point move to own room on more permanant basis.

Doncha just hate that they clearly can sleep through, they just choose when to. DS always used to sleep like a dream in our bed - trouble is, I didn't as I was always waking with a jump having dreamt that something awful had happened. I hate to tell you Maria, but although it was lovely having him our bed we had to go cold turkey on it in the end. Your husband was right though - sometimes you just have to sleep, and hang the training.

I had a night away from home last night so my tiredness is due to too much alcohol and not going to bed before 1, but poor DH was up with DS at 5 this morning. I refuse to feel guilty though - I needed to see my friends!

Maria, that really is tricky. The NCSS suggests trying experimenting with DCs proximity to you at night. Is there a middle ground that might work e.g. is there the space to bring his cot into your room. Apparently some children and babies will sleep as well knowing you are meter away as they would if they were in your bed. However we never tried this as there is simply no space next to our bed.

Maria, I have a lot of sympathy for you. At 15mo, DS still occasionally spends all night in with me, like last night. He just wasn't going to sleep, so at 10pm I tried the old "come to bed with me and when you fall asleep I'll move you into your cot" routine - has worked a few (desperate) times before - only I didn't wake up myself until about 4am! but I put him in his cot then and he stayed asleep there for another 3 hours.

Tonight, 10pm gone and he still wasn't sleeping and then suddenly just went all tired and dozed off, so he's in his cot. But doubtless he'll wake at ~2am and won't go back to sleep unless he comes in with me - swings and roundabouts.

Unlike you, when I first moved him into his cot, it was because neither of us were sleeping so well together - we both slept better with him in his cot. So he has definitely gone backwards, I think. He gets great sleep now whether he's in his cot or in with me, but I sleep worse when he's with me because I'm always slightly alert for any danger to him.

I am a complete no-hoper at 3am though - if he won't go back to sleep in his cot at that point I nearly always give in, because I can't bear it! DH is no help at all at night - he sleeps through it all (sleeps in the spare room because he "needs his sleep" ).

So, my offering: you could try starting him off in your bed with you if that's the only way to get him to drop off to sleep, and then move him out to his cot when he's asleep. No doubt this is not an "approved method", but it works for me (so long as I wake up!)

Hello can I come and join in? I have a 10 and a half month old daughter who doesnt sleep through.

We bed-shared up until last week when I put a single bed mattress on the floor of her own room. She wont go to sleep without being boob-fed at night, for daytime naps I have to have her in the pushchair (however when she is at creche, she just drops off apparently!)

Now I find, as well as going and rescuing her at 1am, I cant get to sleep when she isnt in bed with me and I miss her! I mean.... WHAT?? Surely I should enjoy having a huge double bed to myself with no baby trying to push me out, but no.....

I did manage one night where she slept til 3am (I boob-fed her in her own bed) and then went back to my bed until 6 when she woke for breakfast.

Anyway, that is our sleep story, I think I will go and get into bed now in fact, as I am sure she will be just lying there waiting for me to drift off before calling me to collect her!

Take care.

Hello Shelly. How did it go Maria? Some better nights, I hope.

Crappy rotten night here. Feel miserable today. DP says that I need to accept that DS will not just magically sleep through one day or least one day soon (this conversation at 3.30 this morning with me snivelling into pillow). I tend to think he's right. I think he's a baby who doesn't sleep well when anything's going on - so now it's teething, then it will be crawling, then more teething, then walking etc. But I find the prospect of several more months of this followed no doubt by a bout of cc, which may or may not work, hugely depressing.

Mouth full of ulcers. Supposed to be finding a holiday for June but can't really be a*sed when I know I'll spend it knackered anyway.

Feeling sorry for myself today. Can you tell?

AM, don't despair. It's awful I know. But I did find that when I started to accept that DS just wasn't going to sleep the way DD does it helped a lot. That way the nights he does sleep are a real bonus, and the nights he doesn't are just par for the course and you carry on.

Having said that am feeling bloody awful this morning as DS woke at 12, at 3, at 5.25 (on the dot, as always)...

Arthymum, really really sorry you're feeling so bad. Horrible thing isn't it- the morning after those horrid nights. By the way, I think your DP is right, for what it's worth I also believe that babies don't magically sleep through. I know many here on MN disagree & believe that babies sleep through when they're ready. This simply doesn't ring true, we've all heard of 2-3-4 year olds who still don't sleep well. And in any case, the thing is- what do we do? I do think we need to put all our heads together & find ways to help our babies sleep better....

So. Our night was horrid (no surprise there). There's no way we're going back to co-sleeping, it was very difficult to make the decision to stop the co-sleeping, & I really think it's important for my relationship to DP to stick to our guns. But how to do it, when as Thumb says, things look so very bleak at 3 & 4 am when you're awake...

Last night, for us, started relatively ok. 7-11 perfect sleep. Feed (by DP) at 11.00. Then relatively good sleep (with only one dummy-replugging) until 4.00 am. And then all hell broke loose. DS woke & wouldn't go back to sleep until 5.30. I should have put on my earplugs (just bought them yesterday) but I didn't for some bizarre reason. Will wear them tonight. DP stayed with DS for all that time. The whining & crying was unbelievable. I went in twice & hissed 'give him some milk fgs!!!' DP at first refused & hissed back 'he doesn't need milk'! After quite a bit of time I just went & prepared milk (we've decided no bf in the early hours of the morning, since we don't want to create further problems). At 5.30 DP finally decided to give DS the milk. He then fell asleep promptly. But was awake by 7.00, bright & happy & ready for the day (unbelievable what energy they have). We on the other hand were feeling like crap. Still are actually. Will continue with our mission tonight, hopefully in a few nights we'll have it cracked...

(And by the way, we did have DS in our room in his own cot for ages, he always ended up in our bed regardless. I don't think a gradual approach is suitable anymore, to be honest...)

BTW I really don't think this is a hunger issue we're dealing with, because DS sleeps fine without milk for ages now, plus he eats very very well in the day. It's just that milk can also be comforting for babies who are not sleeping...

You know what as well, babies are like all of us really - some adults sleep brilliantly, others suffer from insomnia. I was a terrible sleeper and early riser when I was a kid and just learned to live with it - it was just who I was. Then as a young adult I was a rubbish sleeper and then gradually I got better at it (until kids came along - grr). So perhaps it's part of accepting their personality?

Still doesn't help at 3am when you're desperate though!

Sorry it didn't go brilliantly Maria - there was a lot of hissing in this household too at about 4.30...

MissM I know you're right but it's a terrifying thought that he might be like me - I didn't sleep through until I was four and had to be sedated (ah the good old GPs of the 1970s!) Then I slept brilliantly as long as the light, temperature and noise levels were all perfect! This served me great until I moved in with DP (he used to sleep with the radio on and a light on but I soon put paid to that!)

DS has a very lively personality which is cute as pie during the day. DP says I only have myself to blame as I always said I wanted a cheeky little boy (he wanted a quiet little girl!)

morning all, a bad night again last night after 2 decent ones - back to 2 hourly wake ups and we co slept again.

I have read that babies wake around 5 times during the night and if they can get themselves back to sleep again, parents are not disturbed. Not sure about that cos sometimes dp or I go to check on ds between 7pm bedtime and our own bedtime and find him awake and staring at the ceiling, not making any noise. He sees us and goes back to sleep. Why does he not do this later on?

I just automatically feed ds now rather than try anything else and I do react to any noise from him (so as not to wake dp). Am hoping when he goes into his own room we will not disturb each other as much! I am putting his cot together in his room today!!! Am hoping to try him in it for daytime naps this week.

ali looking forward to your report on your night. I have heard of cc but not sure what it entails, can you explain exactly?

hello sleep deprived masses - just writing in agreement with those who have said " sleeping through" is open to interpretation. For me it would be perhaps a 7 or 8 hr stretch of blissful kip. (AHH sighs with fond memories of those days) Heard a good one today at a mums and babies group where a fellow mummy said her 5 mth old was sleeping through the night, and then added " except when he wakes for his feeds" . In that case my little'un sleeps though too - except when he wakes for his feeds, or because he's pooing, or when he feels like a good oul' thrash around in the bed, when he wants a 3 min comfort suck on the boob or a rock and pat... etc etc" So my DS sleeps through regularly for up to 2 hrs at a time WAYHAYYYYY!!!

my ds is having sweet potato for lunch

the cot is UP!

Bad night here too, DD woke at 10.40, 12.40, 2.45 and would not go back to sleep easily; had to pick her up and BF her each time. Then up again at 4 and I thought there's no way she can be hungry- so took her in with me and she promptly fell asleep until at 6 (when she rolled and headbutted me in the face!) and then dozed til 7.

She's in the grip of some serious separation anxiety I think - wanting to be picked up every 2 mins and whinging or crying if I leave the room - even when I leave her in DP's arms and now at night she's no longer content with a dummy replug and some physical contact - she wants to be picked up and nothing else will do - so we've gone backwards too... And she hasn't even started teething yet.

Sambo good luck with the cot.

Bad night here - not sure when we were up. I fed twice but he was up at least twice more. Bizarely though after the second feed he was happy to go into his cot awake, and he stayed awake for a while (noises and gentle moans over the monitor) and although dh was ready to go back in, we didn't have to... Insomniac baby?!

Oh dear, a bad night all round, it seems (although I guess those who had a good night are finding better things to do with their extra energy than slump in front of MN all day!) Let's hope it's followed by a good one tonight. Very sleepy baby dust liberally sprinkled over everyone.

Oh my goodness. I am not alone!

I thought I was doing something incredibly wrong. We followed GF to the letter and so expected DS (6 months in a week) to be sleeping a long stretch by now.

Thought there were good signs around 4 months, but he then got viral gastorentiritis and other than the odd ok night, it's been getting worse. Last night I was awake more time than I was asleep.

Everyone around me seems to have babies sleeping through the night so i've been feeling like a complete failure. Nice to know that DS is not the only 6 month old partying at 3, 4, 5 and 6 am!!

Can't remember much about last night, I was a bit tipsy Seemed okay though, or perhaps today's pathetic hangover blanked out any signs of tiredness!

I made a mistake last night - DS didn't go to sleep until 10 and then like a fool I went in at 2am to put his second blanket on (he can't have it on straight away cos the heating's still on, but it gets pretty cold when the heating goes off) and he woke up! And then wouldn't go back to sleep in the cot so ended up in with me again.. But I did put him back in his cot at 5ish, when I woke up and he was fasters..

I am so weak, but he is teething (first molar coming through) and is super-clingy and more whingey than usual during the day as well.

Wah! Not quite sure whether or not to risk the 2nd blanket laying tonight... he kicks them all off anyway but then gets cold!

Oh God. All I want to do is crawl back to bed. DD was up at 3 (she'd had a dream that DS had eaten her chocolate!). DS was up at 5.25, DH went in to him and I said I'd relieve him at 6... but then DD got up! She never does that, never! So I've been up since half 5 and woe betide anyone who wants any kind of decisions or intelligent conversation today.

Suzy - I think the worst thing about following 'gurus' is that when it doesn't work you feel like you're a failure or have done something wrong. I ended up throwing all my books away cos they just made me feel worse. I just kept wondering what you do when they confidently say 'put him down and he will fall asleep', and he doesn't. They don't tell you what to do then!

Sambo there are various ways of doing CC. The key is to keep returning to the baby's room at regular intervals to reassure the baby "mummys here, but it's time to sleep". However, leave quickly, and don't pick up or touch the baby. Someone on my post natal thread went in every 5 mins, other people go in at increasingly long intervals up to a max of 20 mins. My hv said that for my 9 month old not to leave him for more than 10 minutes. I tend to do 5 minutes, when I leave him for longer it's not generally a success!

Having said all that I am feeling like a bit of a failure on the cc front. The nights aren't quite as miraculous as at the weekend, and we are failing on the nap front too. I have just spoken to my HV, who has encouraged me to be tougher!! He has a cold though, so I am hoping that once that is cleared up things will be a bit smoother.