Support thread for those who were under the misguided illusion that their DC would sleep through by six mo - come and join!

[arthymum]

Did you assume that your DC would be sleeping through by the time they were 6 mo - and now you've hit the milestone you realise you were wrong, wrong, wrong as you stagger out of bed 1, 2, 3 times a night?

Do you sometimes can't help but wonder if you'd done things differently (BF/FF/stuck with the dreamfeed/co-slept/put them in their own cot/followed a GF routine/listened to your MIL ) you'd be getting more sleep?

Do you sometimes dread meeting up with other mums with perfect sleepers (especially when said babies are way younger and tinier than yours)?

Are you in a permanent state of confusion and doubt about whether to 'try' something or not (CC, ssh-patt, PUPD, NCSS etc.) but feel it's never the right time (teething, cold, too young) and not sure anyway whether you have the bottle/energy to see it through?

Do you hold out faint hopes that they'll sleep better when they're on solids/when the teeth come through/when they're another pound heavier/when they're in the new gro-bag/when they're on more solids - and each time - wrong again?

Do you mostly cope okay but every now and then feel tired and miserable and sorry for yourself and burst into tears at the postman or get into a petulant fight in Sainsbury's?

Do you secretly fear that you'll be on here in 3 years time, posting about the fact that you haven't slept for nearly 4 years?

Then come and join me! I've seen you lurking on other threads but feel that we need a place to congregate. Share your tears, tantrums, triumphs and tips - and hopefully one by one, we can all eventually disappear off the thread and into the land of nod....

Agree the babies on this thread are v clever. That's my Mums theory too. Alert babies wake up a lot. Not quite so relaxed because they are so very, very clever.

My nights gradually getting better after months of being woken every two hours - now just two night feeds - four hours apart. So much better than 5 wakings - where we were last month. I never knew picking him up and rocking him would encourage him to wake up again the next night for the same... seems so odd.

Question is - how do I stop these two night feeds? 8 months old - do they still need any or could he manage 10 hours without milk?

Hello again dycey - thanks for your advice on my other thread re cc. Did you see that one of the other posters had an approach for dropping BF, of cutting from two breasts to one for the second feed, for several days (week?), then dropping entirely and shhing to sleep. Then repeated for the first feed a little while later.

How do you think he is doing for food during the day? I believe that my ds is far from getting what he needs during the day just yet. But he's doing so much better now (we're BLW), I wouldn't be surprised if that changed in the next month or so.

i am a firm believer that only the very best babies are night owls. in terms of intelligence, sociability, charm, beauty, the list is endles....ds is 10 months (how, how did that happen?) and last night was not as successful as i'd hoped, woke from 10.30 to 12 and just wanted to feed all the time. then through til 5.30...which could be worse.

i have a confession to make - this is terrible parenting - when ds wakes in bed with me any time after 5.30 am and will not be persuaded to go back to sleep i put a teletubbies dvd on the massive tv in our bedroom, curl around ds and let dipsy and co babysit my precious first born for as long as he'll let me carry on sleeping. am fairly sure you won't find that in any baby manual. and he's definitely going to have square eyes.....

Hi all, think we're into our pre holiday routine of two night feeds, times have varied last night 10 pm and 4 am tonight first one is now we'll wait to see what the next one is.

I like this theory and it makes perfect sense!

Have hubby being sick since this afternoon. There is a bug going around the city with many off work. I thought I had food poisioning last week but must have been this bug. Stay away from Portsmouth girls!

hello, think I need to join you all if thats Ok. Am new to MN, first post, too tired before now to type. Have a 11 month DD who has been hyper alert since she was tiny and a terrible sleeper from day one. Ended up co-sleeping as could rarely get her to sleep in her crib. Have managed to gradually wean her off the night feeds, which were frequent to say the least, and she does now settle herself to sleep, more or less, but she still wakes alot. Naptimes sound very similar to Kiwipanda and IsitMeOr experiences. She will only nap if totally fed to sleep and then only for 20 minutes or so, if I try and put her in her cot drowsy she becomes instantly hysterical. I feel terrible as she is so tired all the time whilst I seem to be surrounded by friends babies who sleep 12 hours at night and have great big 2 hour naps during the day. Anyone had any success in stopping feeding to sleep at nap times? I am typing this from the other side of the world so you guys should all be in bed just now, I hope so anyway.

Hi yawningbear , just fed my dd again, she nearly went back to sleep without but I did it to make sure she slept. As in previous post have sick hubby to deal with too!
I have to rock my dd to sleep at nap times and she only goes for about half n hour, she does however get in 3 usually during the day. I read and some friends have said that blackout curtains are essential for some babies to nap during the day.

Hello all - I was feeding to sleep for naps but stopped that because at night DS would insist on a feed when he really didn't need one. So I started rocking / cuddling / bouncing in a darkened toom. The darkness really helps as DS gets overstimulated andwants to stay up and play otherwise...

Hope nights not too bad.

Ours was usual but am a bit disappointed that my top up bottle of formula has stopped working its magic - he has decided it's the same as breastmilk for staying power. A friend tells me the first stage milk lasts the best in babies tummies - any thoughts?

Can't do anything any more as he just wants to walk round with hands held - less time to MNet. Gone is that lovely time of examining objects v v carefully for hours on the floor. He is tugging at my dressing gown now so better walk....

Thanks jollygreenmama and dycey, put up tin foil in her bedroom windows a while ago, we are in a rented house just now so don't want to get new curtains, sure the neighbours think I am up to something dodgy, and it worked really well, until I had done that I had never been able to get her into her cot at naptimes at all. I'm not sure which formula would be best dycey as I have never been able to get DD to drink it at all, despite much trying. I think that if they are eating well during the day and are a good weight they are supposed to be able to go for a good stretch at night without milk by 8 months but I know that DD was still waking for feeds several times a night at that point and I was certain she was hungry. Looking back I now think it was just habit, but its hard to know for sure.

Hi dycey - no experience on the formula, but I do have a ds who likes to stand, stand, stand.

He will be entertained for ages if I prop him in standing position with his little hands holding onto the seat of the sofa. We have carpet, so he can fall without hurting himself, but he honestly doesn't much. After a few days of this, letting him get the Sky remote helps to sustain interest. He will play like this very happily for 20+ minutes. This is my favourite as you get to be hands-free and MNet.

I have also bought him a vtech first steps baby walker off Amazon (they were on special offer last time I looked). That means you need to hold it while he stands against it, as it doesn't have any brakes. But ds loves to do this for ages too.

HTH.

Ahhh, d'you know? I honestly thought that I'd be able to come on here and smugly proudly announce that I can graduate off into the land of the living after having the very best night's sleep in nearly ten months on Tuesday.

Then DS woke at 3.20 this morning, did a screamathon for DH, pretended to go to sleep and then spent an hour buggering about in his bed just loud enough to keep me awake, even through my ear plugs and no monitor It then took me eons to get back to sleep. I feel like complete crap today and I've been a rubbish teacher which means that approximately 60 other children have suffered because my ONE child is a little sod at night!

Bah and pish.

Dycey, re stopping night feeds, DS is a bit of a wimp when it comes to CC or anything like that. He's got no staying power at all. We did go cold turkey - I just stopped his dream feed which he didn't seem to notice. Then when he was a bit grizzly at his second feed time of 2.00ish, DH would go to him. We found a bottle of body temp water and lots of cuddles did the trick. Probably took about a week.

Staines for DS's "mum"; how exciting. I'm trying to convince myself that feralbaby's mamamamama means me and his dadadada is DH rather than the indiscriminate babbling that it clearly is.

That said, DS is clearly a genius. He'd bloody better be. There's got to be some pay off for ten months of sleep deprivation!

Ah thanks Feralgirl - sorry about your night. I will be going back to teaching in Jan and need to sort the sleep before then...

I can't see how else to stop feeds except cold turkey.. the whole reducing by a minute each night just sounds too complicated and unlikely to work. Spacing them out risks being confusing I think. Tepid water is a good thought. I did once try not to feed him (months ago when he woke one hour after his last feed) and he yelled for 40 minutes til I gave in and fed him, which really has given me cold feet about doing it again. Maybe he'd be quicker this time now he is more used to crying!

I dread it but it will probably be easier than I think. He only wants two feeds though and it's managable when not working.

yawningbear - how did you stop the feeds.

Am such an obsessive about sleep and night weaning - must shut up and get on with it!

Hope you all have relatively good nights tonight.

Dycey- I reduced the feeds one at a time, I had been co-sleeping and we weren't in a 3 hourly routine, think she just used to latch on whenever really. We moved to other side of world when DD was 3 months old, which was a tad stressful and any routine we had been in went out the window. I started with the first feed of the night and extended the time by half an hour or whatever felt possible. Was a pretty slow process and it did not go down well with DD, much time was spent bouncing her back to sleep or holding her until the time had passed, but after a few days (sometimes more) she adjusted and I moved the time forward again. I just focused on dropping one feed at a time. She does still wake up now at random times but we can usually get her back to sleep quickly without getting her out of the cot. This probably dosen't help you at all if you have 2 set feeds a night. One of books I had read talked about setting your goal and then working backwards from that in baby steps, maybe reducing one night feed at a time and giving LO a week to ten days to get used to the change before moving onto the next one. Have to say although it was a bit of a slog has made a massive difference and though there was some crying it wasn't heartbreaking. I'm really rubbish when it comes to hearing her cry and although I know lots of people in RL think I just need to leave DD to it I just can't do it! Oh, just remembered the other thing that really helped was getting DP involved in settling her. Good luck

Just popped in to complain that DS seems to have given up on naps at the moment. Bouncing/rocking to sleep is no longer working . So I tried holding in for 10mins after he seemed to have first nodded off this morning, but he still woke up again, as soon as I moved, let alone tried to put him in cot. So I gave up until after lunch.

Tried again, bounced until stopped crying, tried to put down in cot - full on crying - tried again, now full on wailing and no sign of stopping. Ended up feeding him to quiet him down, and he did his old trick of sleeping while feeding, so we were there for about an hour and twenty.

Approached afternoon nap with apprehension - sort of hoping he might just not get tired . Nothing doing with the bouncing. Then realised I could smell something, so changed nappy. Then decided just to try leaving him in cot for a bit. Happy enough for 10 minutes, but no sign of sleep, then started to cry again. So tried bouncing again. Nothing doing. Ended up feeding to sleep again, and holding him there until he woke up about 40mins later.

ARRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

Thank you!

Ahhh, IsItMeOr I feel your pain, I really do, have nothing whatsoever to say that can help as you could be describing my DD though it does help me to hear about someone elses naptime nightmares rather than the sickening RL conversations I have been having where folk are moaning that their LO's nap for so long they can't get out of the house . Here's hoping you have a better night.

Thanks for the sympathy yawningbear - sleep envy is a bad thing, isn't it?

I had managed to get DS to nap pretty reliably so long as he was in his cot, with blackout blinds AND blackout curtains (DH is a tad obsessive about blocking out every scrap of light...). But DS seems to rely on sucking his thumb to get off to sleep in addition to the above sleep cues, and every time he has any kind of stress (e.g. cold, teething, constipation, etc, etc, there always seems to be something at the mo), he loses his thumb, and naptimes have become hellish.

So sorry that it sounds as if you have it even worse, as at least we have had a better patch when he knew where his thumb was. Oh where, oh where has that little thumb gone...

Night was much as usual for these days - three feeds, and DH had to rock him to sleep four times. Tempers are short in the IsItMe household.

Thought I had better update on the naps situation, as had a bit of a eureka moment yesterday after giving him only two naps again, but this time with much less stress all around, as had gone in only expecting two naps.

Anyways, consulted two of our many sleep books last night, and found that, from 6 months, babies are only really expected to do two naps a day, so DS at almost 8 months is a little behind in shifting to that pattern .

Two naps have successfully been acquired today, despite much confusion, mainly on the part of me and DH, about quite how to cope with the clocks going back .

Feeling a lot less stressed today as a result of all this. And am encouraged that DS at least seems to be "maturing" sleepwise, even if a little later than average.

New nap pattern also means that I can see how to try out the idea of BFing every two hours during the day to try and discourage night feeds.

Have also agreed with DH that he'll have a week off in a couple of weeks to try to drop one/two night feeds by stretching the gaps between them. Last time we tried DS had WAY more stamina than we did, but sadly that isn't saying much [Tired old people emoticon].

isitmeor hi, am interested in what you said about two naps.... DD still on 3 tho they are usually no longer than 30 mins. What time do you plan them for, I'd you don't mind me asking? Hope you're having a better night.
We've had teething teamed with our first cold, lastnight and tonight, DD wide awake, trying to rock her back as not interested in milk. Didn't eat much today either and only had half her bottles, trouble breathing and feeding I think. Don't think the change in the hour has had much affect but hard to tell with teeth and cold. Hoping she feels better soon so we can see where we are again.

Morning all! I've been up for over 4 hours already - thank you DD...haven't been on here in ages but we haven't graduated yet So, we've successfully dropped the night feeds but haven't quite cracked the wakings. We get about 3 full nights a week with 1 or 2 wakings the rest. Usually DD just wants a cuddle and will go back to sleep with a bit of grizzling. Last night she was crying for over an hour and a half with me sat on the landing popping in and out trying to calm her down. I eventually resorted to bfing even though she hasn't bf'd for about a week, good old boobs still have it in them...didn't work though she was quiet til she stopped sucking and then started up again. Strangely though when she sleeps through she wakes up around 6:30, when she wakes in the night she's awake about 5:00 - how does that work?
Her naps are pretty good at the mo, one from 8:00 til 9:30 and one from about 12:00 til 2pm so I do get time to put my feet up and eat biscuits do housework

jollygreenmama hi, we're still trying to find our nap slots, but I resorted to writing out a timetable on Sunday as I was so desperate, but forgot that was the day the clocks went back...

I thought it would make most sense to try and pace them through the day, so it seems to be working for DS to have his first nap starting at around 10am (yesterday it was a bit earlier, but he did wake at 5.30). Today he work at 5.50 and nap started just before 10.

Afternoon nap I was trying for around 2pm. Worked out okayish yesterday, except that I managed to wake him up 25mins in, which neither of us enjoyed.

I had wondered if Chulita's timings might be more "normal", but I suspect there is no such thing.

We've been doing a mini wind-down pre-nap routine since Sunday and it seems to help, as DS is a shocker for not having proper sleepy signs at the mo. We read the same book with him while having a cuddle - very busy spider as it finishes with her going to sleep - maybe twice if he seems keen for it. Then walk around cuddling him until hopefully he seems quiet/yawns/starts to grizzle (this is the only reliable sleepy sign!). Then up to bedroom, shut blackout blind and curtains, then cuddle until quiet if grizzling and then put down. If he's quiet I try to put him down straight away and then wait on the top of the stairs. He usually fidgets and chats for a bit, then I go to him if (when at the mo, but we live in hope of self-settling) he starts making unhappy noises. Yesterday afternoon he shouted after 10mins (you know what I mean by angry shouting rather than distress crying?), so I pretty much tucked him back in and returned to top of stairs. 5mins later he was tired crying, so I rocked to sleep, put him down and he stayed.

HTH.

Grrrr, DS's day has started at 4.30 for the last 2 mornings

Dunno why coz on Sunday he slept until 6am so we can't blame the clocks.

JGM, with naps, DS went from 3 naps to 2 between 7 and 8 mo. He now goes 3 hours(ish) between sleeps so we don't live by the clock because sometimes he's awake at 4.30am and other times he sleeps until 6.30am

He goes through phases when he gets a bit rubbish at napping and then I spend the weekend co-sleeping them with him which is lovely and seems to reset his body clock back to his usual 1.5 - 2 hour long sleeps.

He was crap at napping until he was about 4mo so I just co-slept his lunchtime nap with him every day for about 6 weeks!

Chulita, has baby chu decided she like BM again then? That's good news. Feeding to sleep doesn't work with DS any more either. Bum. It was my only sure fire trick too!

Hi feralgirl - sorry if this is a daft question, but how does co-sleeping the lunchtime nap work? I mean the logistics - where does it happen, etc.

DS did a good nap this morning, but no joy with his post-lunch nap.

Thanks Feralgirl & Isitmeor, was after a guide as at mo dd has naps around 9, 2 and 5. Trying to not have the 5 in the hope she'll sleep a bit better at night. Her cold is better today but the teething worse poor bunny Am co-sleeping from about 2am til, well 5.30 we started today. Think co-sleeping naps brilliant idea, haven't done that for months!

JGM know what you mean about 5 being quite late. What time is bedtime?

How long are the naps? Just that the gap between 9 and 2 seems quite long.

Sadly still here, but usually too depressed and tired to write anything down. However, seeing that naps are well and truly the bane of my life, I thought I'd add my two cents worth.
We're currently on 2 naps a day; at 10 and 2 (give or take depending on whether her wakes at 4, 5 or 6 . Since ditching the dummy (under strict orders from Sleep Consultant du jour), he's not slept for longer than 40 minutes each. By the late afternoon, he's in a foul mood and quite impossible to deal with (as am I). Last week, my cousin mentioned that her LO (6 months) has a morning nap AND a 2.5 hour siesta and I burst into tears. Yup, sleep envy is rubbish.
Anyway, Sleep Consultant insists that once his fragile self settling skills are sorted out, his daysleep (and heinous early waking) will improve. "WHEN DAMMIT WHEN??" is all I say. We were making some progress with his night sleep but then he came down with a cold and now he's teething so we're back to square one. Bollocks.