Support thread for those who were under the misguided illusion that their DC would sleep through by six mo - come and join!

[arthymum]

Did you assume that your DC would be sleeping through by the time they were 6 mo - and now you've hit the milestone you realise you were wrong, wrong, wrong as you stagger out of bed 1, 2, 3 times a night?

Do you sometimes can't help but wonder if you'd done things differently (BF/FF/stuck with the dreamfeed/co-slept/put them in their own cot/followed a GF routine/listened to your MIL ) you'd be getting more sleep?

Do you sometimes dread meeting up with other mums with perfect sleepers (especially when said babies are way younger and tinier than yours)?

Are you in a permanent state of confusion and doubt about whether to 'try' something or not (CC, ssh-patt, PUPD, NCSS etc.) but feel it's never the right time (teething, cold, too young) and not sure anyway whether you have the bottle/energy to see it through?

Do you hold out faint hopes that they'll sleep better when they're on solids/when the teeth come through/when they're another pound heavier/when they're in the new gro-bag/when they're on more solids - and each time - wrong again?

Do you mostly cope okay but every now and then feel tired and miserable and sorry for yourself and burst into tears at the postman or get into a petulant fight in Sainsbury's?

Do you secretly fear that you'll be on here in 3 years time, posting about the fact that you haven't slept for nearly 4 years?

Then come and join me! I've seen you lurking on other threads but feel that we need a place to congregate. Share your tears, tantrums, triumphs and tips - and hopefully one by one, we can all eventually disappear off the thread and into the land of nod....

Not getting much chance to post - sorry everyone having rubbish nights at the mo. Same here although think DD is ill/cutting teeth. She slept lots yesterday (despite being in pushchair, going to nursery to collect DS, then being transferred to car seat and only finally waking when got out of car seat at Baby College. Was so upset/angry last night she was sobbing, so ended up feeding her more than usual - she would only feed to sleep, no chance of taking her off half asleep. Although when I put her down at 10.45 she did have a huuuuge burp and then slept until 3am but then up and inconsolable at 4.35am again. Is happy when awake, but was only awake for 1hr 45mins this morning before wanting to go back to sleep and needing to feed to sleep. Wish she would cut just one tooth and then I would know how she is when cutting a tooth and then be able to distinguish that from being ill/hungry/a pain in the ass about going to sleep !

Sospan, your argument with Duncan Bannatyne did make me laugh - sounds a great invention btw - how much you looking for investment-wise?!

Am giving DD a break from the whole self-settle business until she's back to full health (she is currently fast asleep in her puschair, so I'll let her off!)

Right, should really be ironing before nursery run...

sospan, hi and I LOVE the shush-patter. I'm in. And you're honestly not doing anything wrong imo. DS's top teeth took bloody ages to come through and caused us all no end of bother, biting and belly-aching. I still feed him to sleep most evenings and he's perfectly capable of self-settling and, after having been ill at the beginning of the week, has gone back to sleeping through so it's done him no harm.

BUT he does wake between 5.00 and 5.30 every morning which is doing my head in and I think just about justifies my presence here still?

I was talking to a colleague today whose 2 year old daughter refuses to go to sleep until 2am and then wakes up at 5am and has done that every night since she was 6mo I felt awful saying that baby FG is now a reasonably good sleeper. Poor bloke.

Hi Ladies
Can i join you all.
I have a 6 month old DD who for the last 5-6 weeks has kept me up, waking every couple of hours, sometimes for a feed (BF) sometimes she just needs settling and sometimes i am sure just for the hell of it
I am slowly losing my mind and rapidly turning in to a grumpy old cow.

I am so glad i have come across this thread.

Hi Jules, welcome. fg, i'd say you still qualify. anything before 6 is still night time as far as i'm concerend.

before i had ds my best friend told me not to worry about anything because as soon as you get used to something you can guarantee they'll change what they're doing. she's right. ds is back to waking at 12 and 4 (i think - i sleep through that one if i can) and awake for 6.30 / 7. we seem to have sleep patterns that last for a week. unfortunately, not a single one that went through the night!

I've not read all the posts on this topic (bit long!) but just wanted to post to let you know what happened with us.

DS is 15.5 months old. Breastfed and I went back to work when he was 12 months. I stopped daytime feeds at 11 months to prep him for nursery (switched to cow's milk) but continued feeding him before bed, whenever he seemed to need it at night and first thing in the morning. Stopping breast-feeding during the day was relatively painless.

Since about 14 months the night-time feeds were getting further apart, so he was starting to go 6-9 hours from being put down, but would definitely seem hungry in the early hours. I'd feed him and he'd quickly go back to sleep. Only breastfeeding worked. However when his 4 molars started coming through we seemed to be back to 3 hour feeds at night. I think the sucking soothed him. Calpol/ibuprofen didn't seem to make much difference nor did offering water or cow's milk. A couple of weeks ago we went on holiday and we decided to try cold turkey on night feeds. Our plan was that DH would try and settle DS and I wouldn't offer milk. It wasn't helped by us sleeping in the same room when at home DS has his own. Still, the first night DS cried for 40 mins as my DH tried to soothe him and then woke for a second bout of crying. We found that I had to leave the room or DS wouldn't settle at all. It got gradually better until after a few nights, DS was able to be soothed by either DH or me, without milk.

Since we've been back home, he's been almost completely sleeping through. He still cries about 1am but it seems to be in his sleep and the last time I was able to shush him to sleep by standing outside his door and it only took a couple of minutes. I have to say we've had some earlier starts though - between 5:30 and 6:30 am. My aim is to only offer milk after 6:30 am but I caved in for a quieter life a couple of times! He's still got lots of teething pain, but I think we've broken the expectation of milk at night and it means that at least DH and I share the night time duties. I've always felt DS would find his own way, and resisted pressure from others to force the issue, but when we seemed to be going backwards I had to do something - the constant disturbed nights were impacting my work. In the end it wasn't as bad as I expected and DS seems to have adjusted well. Long may it continue!

Right. DD has been sleeping through for a week now. She has a little whinge around 1am ish but she re-settles herself. I think dropping the night feed made a huge difference but it did take a long time and a lot of crying. Just the fact that she doesn't expect feeding now is brilliant.
On the downside she doesn't really want to bf any more so I've been expressing like a loon cos I really don't want to quit til she's 12 months. Last night I tried to feed her to sleep but she flatly refused and just cried til DH produced a bottle. It's odd but I feel totally rejected...

Hi to all noobies to the thread. Sorry it's tough at the moment but it does get better, honest!

Chulita, I am for you. Since going back to work I am really missing the daytime BFing. Fortunately baby fg makes up for it by attaching himself pretty much when I walk in through the door and not letting go until he's asleep at 6.30! But I love BFing so much, it was really grim when DS was cutting his top teeth and howled and bit me whenever I offered him boob. DH and I had one of our worst rows ever when I was upset about it and he just said "well, you'll have to stop breast feeding then, won't you?" I hope baby chulita comes back to you soon.

The latest from casa fg is that DS's new habit is to spend about an hour from 3.30 onwards going "aaaaah aaaaaaah aaaaaaah" just loud enough for it to keep me awake, even with the monitor off and ear plugs in. He's not even properly awake ffs. It's driving me nuts.

Hello fg, chulita, kiwi, staines and everyone else.
The veterans among you may remember me from the 4-5 month thread, which I'm sad to say, I graduated from with merit, honours, dinstinction etc. etc.
So DS is now just uner 9 months old and is STILL a nightmare sleeper. Since he's been 6 months old, we've stopped feeding, done cranial osteopathy, spoken to not one but TWO bloody sleep consultants, we've picked up and put down till we've blue in the face, implemented every sleep plan known to mankind, we've read just about every sleep book possible and STILL sweet FA. WHY WHY WHY? I'm broken with exhaustion (and broke). He insists on waking up at night (for no apprent reason, at least 3 times), and refuses to go back to sleep on his own unless we intervene by patting or the like. His naps are all over the place and to add to the fun, he staunchly maintains that 0530 is a perfectly acceptable time to wake up for the day. My god I feel terrible... and its hard to find clothes that don't clash with grey skin and red eyes. Sigh.
Anyway, just popped in to say hello, and have a good moan with people who understand how crap it is to have a baby like this. In my circle of friends I'm the only one with these problems... everyone else's babies seem to sleep beautifully (and the mothers have the glossy hair and clear complexions to prove it). Must have done something truly appalling in a past life.

Hey all. Superdan poor you, that does sounds grim. DD is still absolute nightmare when it comes to naps and completely erratic at nights - the only thing we can be sure of is that no two nights are ever even remotely the same.. If it makes you feel any better to hear a tale of woe, one of my best mates has a DD who wakes up between 4 and 5am every day, usually towards the former rather than latter, and is good to go for the day. Apparently the other day it was 3.45. She is NOT looking forward to the clocks going back...

My DD woke howling at 11pm last night which is most unlike her as she usually saves her howling for the early morning. Dunno what the problem is/was but this morning's nap was a screamfest too. Teething, maybe. GOD I hate teeth.

Is it just me or does having babies seriously make you question evolution? I mean someone PLEASE explain to me the evolutionary advantage of being immobile and VERY loud. How on earth did we survive as a species? DD would have been sabre-tooth tiger food within seconds

oh dear superd. i do feel for you....can i ask a stupid question? does ds sleep in with you? i find it's the only way that i can cope with ds waking in the night, though he does sometimes give me a big treat and sleep til 4 or 5 am. i realise it's not for everyone though.
no such luck last night, bloody, bloody teeth. yes, ds has discovered that teeth can be used to bite things, namely my nipples. ouch. and i had been dreading giving up bfing, but now i'm just not so sure. but i am. but i'm not. when it's going well there's nothing better, but my god, i could throw him across the room when he decides to really bite down. not deliberately, it's like an involuntary reaction.

having re read my post, i really hope that none of you have come away with the impression that i actually do fling stainesminor across the room. i do not. but i am starting to teach him the meaning of the word 'no' in quite a hurry.

Hello superD, sorry to see you here
I spoke to a lady today who still co-sleeps with her 4 year old who regularly bfs during the night I just couldn't do that for 4 years!!
Glad you cleared that baby-flinging up staines

Hi all
Only just started reading this thread from beginning so have no idea how this fits in with current posts - anyway this is an article someone sent to me...

drmomma.blogspot.com/2009/10/sleeping-with-baby-breastfeeding-night.html

I have a nearly 13 month old daughter who currently wakes 3 times for a BF after going down at 7pm.
I have read all the advice and considered many tactics but have never felt committed to doing anything, however being back at work for 2 days is taking its toll a bit..

A friend who I know from my 'alternative' mums group (all met through a sling group) has recently got her daughter (same age) to sleep through by enlisting her partner while she went and slept in the living room for 4 nights. She protested a bit and was only offered daddy's comfort and water but got through it - I am considering the same tactic...However my DD screams like an abandoned orphan that's been left naked in a newspaper in the pouring rain after about 30 seconds of being denied the boob and boy can she go on...

Not been on for a while, just plodding away at life and not having time to post.
Hi SuperD - sorry you're having such a tough time of it with DS.
Claremu - thanks so much for that article. Is nice to read something pro co-sleeping and bfing that is so nice. Makes me happy and sad at same time - happy that this time round I was confident and able to bf DD and just to co-sleep with her when necessary. But sad that maybe we shouldn't have pushed the self-settling issue (although I'm glad we did). We haven't let her cry-it-out, just done PU/PD and reassurance when we felt it couldn't be food she wanted.
So, for last few nights (think nearly a week), she has gone down in evening round about same time as DS, woken only twice in night for food (at about 4 hours intervals) and then up for day at about 6.30/6.45. I am sooo pleased for this. I think at nearly 7 months she still needs food in night and she wakes up happy too, so it seems to be working for her. I know that give another couple of months when she is properly on 3 meals a day, I will be bemoaning that she is "waking out of habit", but this is a step forward for us, so I'm happy (plus, am sure this too is "just a phase" and it'll all go to pot soon )

Chulita - yay on DD sleeping through, but for her self-weaning of bf. 10 months is still great, but it must be really hard. I know today DD missed her mid-morning bf 'cos she slept through it with an ultra-long nap, so I gave her lunch and then offered bf, which she didn't really take - I felt sad that she might give up (even though she still had 3 other feeds today, plus whatever she takes tonight). Hope she isn't ready to give up bf just yet, for your sake.

right, should be in bed...

Thanks for the support all. staines, DS absolutely LOATHES co-sleeping... He's always wanted his own space so getting him in with us has always been a surefire way of causing the mother of all strops. Last night was actually a good night... He slept till 4am and much to our delight, went back to sleep (after an hour of epic patting and whispering) till 6am. God, how low my standards have become.

superd - sleeping through to 4 is cause for celebration in the massif too. i skip down the hall to see him when he wakes at 4....

I'd glad take sleeping til 4 too (but then I have no standards at the moment).

Just back from a few nights away. Sleep was better but not great. Being in a hotel meant I was worried about noise so shoved a boob in his face at the slightest peep.

Now we're back, we've decided to 'do something' about the 5+ times feeding a night so are going for the 'Dad settling' method too. On the first night we had some crying and some sleeping, and last night we had not much crying but not much sleeping either. DS ended up sleeping on DH for most of the time when he did sleep so I'm not sure whether we're just replacing one prop with another. How many nights do you think we should give it - 3? 4? Poor DH is looking quite drained already...

Did anyone have a good night then?

sospan - once you've started don't stop otherwise you'll be back at the beginning. (Unless you don't mind being back at the beginning!) Of course this is only IME and I'm no expert
Honestly when we stopped DD's 3 night feeds 3 weeks ago she took 8 nights to stop screaming at regular intervals. DH doesn't do night settling, not sure why but hey ho, so I dragged my sorry arse out of bed but made sure just to pat/shush and not pick up. She inevitably started crying the moment I stopped patting but then I'd leave her supposedly for 5 minutes although she was usually out in less than one. It was CC but then desperate times call for desperate measures IMO She's only sleeping through perhaps 3 nights a week but I'm certainly not complaining.
Hello starshine welcome back!

Hi all. The feral household is pretty rubbish at the moment. DS is still ill. Our idiot locum GP told DH to take him to bloody hospital yesterday so that a paediatrician could look at him and say he's fine, just got a bit of a temperature and needs more antibiotics for his ears and throat.

DS therefore is now waking several times a night and not really eating properly during the day so is famished by 5am. The dr told us to dose him with calpol and calprofen every 6 hours which seems excessive so we're not doing it that much, but it certainly helps him sleep, poor little sod.

Sospan, now that I am back at work, DH is doing the night shift during the week; I figure I work twice the hours and earn twice the money that he does so why should I? When DS had the option of me or DH, he would flatly refuse to settle for DH but I guess he's got used to it now.

To add to my woes, my friend has just had a miscarriage and my cat got run over last week

That sounded a bit self centred. My woes are clearly as nothing compared to my friend's. I'm just very very sad for her.

fg - not at all self centred. i am ridiculously sensitive since ds appeared on the scene. i can't bear anything happening to anyone. my heart bleeds when i see tramps in the street, because they were babies once. it's the thing i was least prepared for before i had ds. i would be absolutely useless if one of my friends was in the same position as yours.

Feral - for your DS being ill so long and for your friend. Is awful when friends have m/c I think, as you just want it to go well for them. Hope your DS gets better soon.

DD went over 5 hours between last feed before bed and then first wake of night last night , but then woke 3 hours later and didn't want to get up, but didn't want to sleep in her cot either . Ended up asking DH to go in the single bed in her room and take her into our bed. She then slept until 8.30am!! Is shattered tonight and has not been too good on her food so think maybe she's either finally going to cut a tooth or is sickening for something...

Think it's going to be a while before I would consider stopping all night-feeding, as she's only 7 months (today) and is not yet having what I would call proper food - just fruit and veg purees and chomping on fruit, veg and toast finger food (also had a right good chomp on a sausage piece the other day ).

SoSpan - I would consider sleeping through til 4am good going too, but agree that it is still tough to get up at that time.

Right, off for some quality time with DH, as it is one of his rare nights off.

Very quick to say for Feral. Terrible for your friend. And I would be in hysterics if one of my 3 (!) cats was killed. So sorry for you.

Yet again our DSs seem to be separated at birth as mine was ill for pretty much 1 entire month. From stuffed nose and fever, to ear infection, to stuffed nose, to a couple of new teeth. Really, really bad month. We have just started having good nights again this week - had to do a bit of mild enforcing when we could tell he was feeling better but thought that 4:30 was an acceptable wake up time. But other than that, he has fallen back into good habits in the last week or so. So hopefully your DS will be the same. It was a long month though!

Umm, they're also separated at birth in terms of the hairy back patch and I laughed out loud at the tail comment a few pages back!

Sorry to everyone else suffering with wretched nights. I am a horrible, horrible person when the nights are bad and I just can't see how it will ever get better or how I will ever survive, and then I have two good nights in a row and I feel like I can conquer the world. Hate the manic swings!

for you fg - one of my cats was run over when I was 8 mths pregnant with DD and I cried for days. I was still wobbly emotionally about a month later. And it's not self-centred at all, it's not as if you're lessening the tragedy of your friend's mc - I hope you can give her lots of support.
We had a nightmare nap day yesterday cos there was no mum and tots activity in the morning (DD always has mammoth naps after a busy morning) so we didn't get a nap in til gone 3pm and she was so whingey I was tearing my hair out. Couple that with us having to wait in for some bloke to finally fix our bathroom door, I couldn't even take her for a walk. Argh!! How come even though DD is sleeping so much better I'm still soooooo tired? It doesn't make sense
MoM you will survive because you have to and I bet your DS is gorgeous so he's worth the permanently grey feeling!

Ta for all the sympathy guys. Are MCs really common? This is the second friend this year who's had one and my cousin just had one too. So so sad for all of them. Makes me realise just how incredibly lucky I am.

Staines I was totally unprepared for turning into a big wuss too. I cry when animals die on nature programmes now I was really worried that I'd be too soft to go back to teaching scabby teenagers but it seems I can still hold my own in the classroom, thank god!

Things are even worse this morning with the feralchild though. DS woke at 4am and screeeeeamed for ages, wouldn't settle with calpol so I even tried feeding him and bringing him in with us but he was still bellowing.

When I put the lights on full I discovered that he was absolutely covered from head to foot in a rash so panicked and did the rolly-glass-for-meningitis-test and the rash went away so phew! But there's chicken pox doing the rounds here at the moment so we called NHS direct (by which time DS was having a whale of a time on our bed, singing and laughing like a good 'un) and I'm taking him to the doctors again in a minute!